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Old 11-01-2002, 08:01 AM   #1
peteswann
Dojo: Shinwakai UK
Location: Slough, Berkshire
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 38
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Talking Real Life: tm

Here is a thought prompted by another thread.

How likely are you to get attacked outside of the dojo by someone 'trained' in another MA? By that I guess I mean someone who knows how to try and hit you with a fully committed attack and wanting to do as much damage as they can?

The small amount of violence I have witnessed (read very small amount!) and the type of stuff that gets shown on TV news stories doesn't seem to resemble anything from MA's!!
(and a story from LOEP a while ago of a road rager in Indy makes my point too!)

A drunken brawl down the local inevitably resembles a kids fight as far as I can see!!

Just after thoughts from those who have them!! As I said, my own experience in this area is extremely limited!!

Pete

Pete
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Old 11-01-2002, 09:29 AM   #2
ian
 
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Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
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I've never noticed any particular martial ability in fights I've personally seen or been involved with - though many people seem to be aware of groin strikes and chokes. I think most people attack with punches - as boxing is the thing most people in the west are exposed to. Knife hand attacks to the neck and attacks to the jaw are probably one of the attacks I think are quite effective but are seriously overlooked in attacks.

When you say a fully committed attack and wanting to do lots of damage - I think many men are quite powerful and potentially could do a lot of damage (especially kicks to the head when someone is down - I've heard of a lot of deaths this way). I think the main thing is the shock of getting into a fight, and what people do when the unexpected happens. I've been involved with some fights with bouncers - one was very passive (just a misunderstanding) and he escorted me out with a kote-gaeshi type hold; though it was obvious he didn't really know what he was doing. Another was a throat grab (trying to squeeze behind the wind wipe). Some of the bouncers in the local pubs I know to be instructors or quite experienced in various martial arts.

I think you are right in; many fights are alcohol related. I would say that every situation is very different though, and just by preparing for different attacks, we able to at least move when the unusual happens. The thing about doing martial arts is that you realise what people COULD potentially do to you.

Ian

P.S. I didn't see this, but a while ago in a night club a jujitsu person put someone in the type of reverse ikkyo - i.e. they are bent over, but nages arm is more vertical, hand upwards and close to ukes shoulder, nages arm hooked over the (bent) elbow of uke. Apparently they then smashed a bottle over the back of their neck.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 11-02-2002, 08:34 AM   #3
Jonathan Lewis
Location: Boulder, CO
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Having done the research some time ago, my information is out of date, however, it used to be that a high percentage of the people in fights that were somehow brought to official attention, or were able to be reasonably extapolated from other statistics, did indeed have at least some martial training. I would guess that that percentage has only gone up.

The caveat is: You usually will NOT notice any particular trained martial ability in street fights even between long-time martial practicioners. Once things get under way, most peoples training goes right out the window and they resort to insticts developed over years of emotional reaction to stress and/or fear, rather than to anything developed in intentional training. My current theory on that is that most people who do have the self-discipline to train properly, and remain in their trained mindset, also have the self discipline to not get into street fights.

PS. I am making a distinction between a fight and a defense situation.
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Old 11-02-2002, 10:02 AM   #4
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
Jonathan Lewis wrote:
Once things get under way, most peoples training goes right out the window and they resort to insticts developed over years of emotional reaction to stress and/or fear, rather than to anything developed in intentional training.
I've often wondered whether perhaps that should be harnessed during training.

Many, many blue moons ago, I had *the* most intersting sparring session in Wing Chun. The class was held in an old rollerskating rink, so we he all the fancy lighting etc. We turned off all the main lights and closed the doors... almost pitch black. Then we start sparring. Every now and again, someone would turn on the strobe lights for a few seconds along with a blast of music. Quite a shock to the system!!

Sure was an ugly sparring session tho (technique wise)
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Old 11-06-2002, 09:58 AM   #5
Cyrijl
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 188
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(I study Krav Maga and not Aikido.)

We train to go from passive to aggressive under the stress of an attack. This helps train onself to be aware of their situation. The same can be done with aikido. I feel as though even feigned agression on the mat would be frowned upon.

In order to be 'effective' in a self-defense situatio, one must be prepared to 'fight/defend' in a highly stressed situation. Sometimes there will be yelling, sometimes dim lighting. All of these things do not seem (to me) to be taken into account in most dojo.

jzf

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 11-06-2002, 11:19 AM   #6
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
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Quote:
How likely are you to get attacked outside of the dojo by someone 'trained' in another MA?
Didn't someone once post that they read that about 1% of the american population would even consider taking a martial art? If that number is anywhere near close, the chances would seem rather small.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 11-06-2002, 02:07 PM   #7
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Quote:
Ian Dodkins (ian) wrote:
P.S. I didn't see this, but a while ago in a night club a jujitsu person put someone in the type of reverse ikkyo - i.e. they are bent over, but nages arm is more vertical, hand upwards and close to ukes shoulder, nages arm hooked over the (bent) elbow of uke. Apparently they then smashed a bottle over the back of their neck.
Sounds like a version of hijishime. Yoshinkan and several other styles of aikido use that varient (not to mention judo). Its really a very good control for SD situations...provides an excellent entry into ground work if necessary (not that I would recommend ground work in a crowded bar...)

Ron Tisdale
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Old 11-07-2002, 01:14 AM   #8
suebailey
Location: sunderland
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 52
England
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if this happened in my area its likely ur been beaten up by a mate cos evey one who does MA in any form now every one else as we all train at the same gym and r all door supervisers (bouncers) and if ur not a bouncer then ur good mates wiht them all.

but the fights i c at the clubs r mainly drunk who swing and miss any way more often than not.

i have had one who was a boxer and it took 3 of us to get him out but he wasnt from our area he was a viister.

but if it happened to me i would attempt to be better cos we all have our weekness.

with out the heart there can be no understanding between body and mind and if u have never linked ur self to true emptiness you will never comprehend the full dimension of aikido.
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