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Old 12-02-2013, 03:00 PM   #1
mathewjgano
 
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Term changes

Hi folks, per another thread, I was curious about the changes in terms for describing the roles of uke and nage. Was this simply a case of a newer generation using more contemporary terminology? Does it reflect a shift in emphasis (either de facto or by design)?
Any insights would be appreciated.
Take care!

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Old 12-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #2
odudog
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Re: Term changes

What change in terms are you curious about? Further clarification is needed.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:26 PM   #3
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Term changes

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
What change in terms are you curious about? Further clarification is needed.
I was under the impression that older styles of Aikido tend to use shite/tori and that newer styles tend to use nage/uke. I was curious if this reflects a conscious, purposeful, change...or, I suppose, if it's even an accurate description.

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Old 12-03-2013, 01:26 AM   #4
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Term changes

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
I was under the impression that older styles of Aikido tend to use shite/tori ...
I never heard the attacker being called "tori".
Where do you hear that?

When practicing with Endō Seishiro we very seldom have shite and aite. But mostly, allmost ever, tori and uke is used.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:47 AM   #5
PaulF
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Re: Term changes

It's uke and nage for us. We had shi'te and tori used instead of nage at the coaching course recently (lots of different styles represented) and no one got confused. Not up on the history of why different terms are used or any nuances in meaning I'm afraid.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #6
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Term changes

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
I never heard the attacker being called "tori".
Where do you hear that?

When practicing with Endō Seishiro we very seldom have shite and aite. But mostly, allmost ever, tori and uke is used.
Sorry, Carsten, that was a mistake. I meant aite.
(As usual, mucking things up...my subconscious ongoing attempt at keeping myself humble )

BTW, FWIW, at my school we use aite and tori a lot, but also uke and nage, so they've always seemed more or less like synonyms to me.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 12-03-2013 at 12:07 PM.

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Old 12-03-2013, 12:21 PM   #7
phitruong
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Re: Term changes

aren't we due for a name change? i vote for bozo and waldo.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 12-03-2013, 01:10 PM   #8
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Term changes

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
aren't we due for a name change? i vote for bozo and waldo.
Works for me: I regularly feel like a bozo in my search for waldo.

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Old 12-03-2013, 07:08 PM   #9
odudog
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Re: Term changes

This is just a function of preference. Doesn't dictate if a style is new or old. Aite means opponent. Tori means to grab, to hold, take posession of, ect... Shite is a conjucated form of a word meaning to do, so the person doing the technique.
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Old 12-04-2013, 01:55 PM   #10
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Term changes

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
This is just a function of preference. Doesn't dictate if a style is new or old. Aite means opponent. Tori means to grab, to hold, take posession of, ect... Shite is a conjucated form of a word meaning to do, so the person doing the technique.
Thanks, Mike!

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Old 01-13-2014, 04:52 PM   #11
Tom Verhoeven
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Re: Term changes

Hello Matthew, nice to see that you are still posting.

The terms uke and nage describe a situation in the past tense. One person has thrown the other, the other has been thrown.

That works fine when we are doing kata, we know in advance which person is going to perform which role.

But if we study and practice genuine Aiki, then we do not really want to know in advance which role we are supposed to take.

So I prefer not to use the terms uke and nage. I rather use Aite and Shite instead.

The latter terms were used by actor / playwright Zeami to express two equal members of a play.

O Sensei had a distinct preference for these two terms for the same reasons as Zeami.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:26 PM   #12
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Term changes

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
Hello Matthew, nice to see that you are still posting.

The terms uke and nage describe a situation in the past tense. One person has thrown the other, the other has been thrown.

That works fine when we are doing kata, we know in advance which person is going to perform which role.

But if we study and practice genuine Aiki, then we do not really want to know in advance which role we are supposed to take.

So I prefer not to use the terms uke and nage. I rather use Aite and Shite instead.

The latter terms were used by actor / playwright Zeami to express two equal members of a play.

O Sensei had a distinct preference for these two terms for the same reasons as Zeami.
Hi Tom! Thank you for the info!

Gambarimashyo!
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