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Old 11-22-2013, 05:54 AM   #1
Dalaran1991
Location: Paris
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
France
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Lower back pain after training

I'm at the phase of my training where I'm taking a lot of high falls, and I love it!

Now the thing is, after every training session my lower back got quite uncomfortable. Any movement bending my back is very uncomfortable and very annoying. I wouldn't say that it hurts though. If it hurts then I guess it's something dangerous.

My Sensei makes us do a lot of stretching techniques after class, but this problem persist.

Anyone has the same problem and a few advices on what I should do?

Thanks !
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:37 AM   #2
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,817
United_States
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Re: Lower back pain after training

guy told his doctor: "hey doc! it hurts when i do this. what you recommend?"
doctor: "stop doing it!"

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #3
Walter Martindale
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Location: Cambridge, ON
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Canada
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Your sensei is an expert in aikido. Find an expert on lower backs. I've found Hamilton Hall (AKA The Back Doctor) helpful but the best as far as I know is Stuart McGill - www.backfitpro.com.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:37 PM   #4
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
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United Kingdom
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Quote:
Long Trinh wrote: View Post
I'm at the phase of my training where I'm taking a lot of high falls, and I love it!

Now the thing is, after every training session my lower back got quite uncomfortable. Any movement bending my back is very uncomfortable and very annoying. I wouldn't say that it hurts though. If it hurts then I guess it's something dangerous.

My Sensei makes us do a lot of stretching techniques after class, but this problem persist.

Anyone has the same problem and a few advices on what I should do?

Thanks !
Hi Long,
Why take high falls? No wonder your back is sore.Use your common sense.Getting pulverised by over the top ukemi can cause hip/back problems later in life.Cheers, Joe.
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:10 PM   #5
aikijean
Dojo: Club d'Aikido de Québec
Location: Québec
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18
Canada
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Like the other guys said: stop breakfalls. First you do not really have to do it to take ukemi second I do not know your age but believe me ten years from now your body will talk to you and not in a fine way.
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Old 11-23-2013, 03:55 PM   #6
PaulF
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 64
United Kingdom
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Yep, big high breakfalls look cool, but they're not.
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:56 PM   #7
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Quote:
Jean Hardy wrote: View Post
Like the other guys said: stop breakfalls. First you do not really have to do it to take ukemi second I do not know your age but believe me ten years from now your body will talk to you and not in a fine way.
Hi Jean,
My body constantly talks to me .It says 'Why are you killing me, you prat'.Trouble is I do not listen , I just consume vast quantities of codeine,ibuprofen and rub eye stinging lotions on my battered physique.Cheers, Joe.
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Old 11-23-2013, 05:59 PM   #8
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Smile Re: Lower back pain after training

Quote:
Jean Hardy wrote: View Post
Like the other guys said: stop breakfalls. First you do not really have to do it to take ukemi second I do not know your age but believe me ten years from now your body will talk to you and not in a fine way.
Dear Jean,
When I touch with my finger anywhere on my body I get shooting pains in whatever area I have touched.I guess I must have broken my index finger? Cheers, Joe
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Old 11-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #9
aikijean
Dojo: Club d'Aikido de Québec
Location: Québec
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Canada
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Jo, my body talks to me every day specially in the dojo, so to make it quiet a bit I don't do breakfalls anymore but it is too late for me. I do not teach it and encourage younger persons to not do it at all.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:58 PM   #10
Dalaran1991
Location: Paris
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
France
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Hmm, a lot of aikido schools do breakfall exclusively and the students, especially the seniors, seem fine. Maybe I've been doing high fall wrong? Done right it shouldn't cause any trouble.

Anyway I'll stop for a while and see if the situation improves.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:06 PM   #11
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
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Netherlands
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Re: Lower back pain after training

How is your hamni? Check that you're not standing and moving around with a very hollow lower back.

Pauliina
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:36 AM   #12
fjh
Dojo: Aikido of Missoula
Location: Missoula MT
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Re: Lower back pain after training

I don't like this continuing trend enabling of lazy ukemi. I've been in this art around 15 years now, and ukemi seems to get worse and worse because of this attitude that "X" isn't necessary. First koshi nage disappeared, then high falls, and now rolling is not even required. Just because "X" takes effortful practice doesn't mean you should give up on it. If someone wants to try improve their ukemi then they should be encouraged.

High falls may not be necessary, but people who don't participate in them are really missing out on a great aiki experience. There is nothing like providing an attack and then ending up facing in the opposite direction on the other side of the mat, wondering what the hell just happened, with a vague recollection of going head over heels through the air at some point.

My guess is the execution was wrong. Either you executed the fall wrong and still need ukemi practice in this area, or nage executed the technique in a way that did not put you in a natural position to take the high fall-or a combination of both. Practice taking high falls with a partner who understands it's a rotating hara that leads to a high fall, not an arm crank. Let them guide you to where the fall begins and take the fall yourself in a way that feels natural to you by feeling your hara rotate. The lower to the mat they can guide you before your hips begin to rotate the better. We call these "roll out rolls" here. You'll end up layed out on the mat like you took a high fall, but you really never leave the ground. Then you can work your way up to a higher fall.
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Old 12-04-2013, 02:50 PM   #13
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 538
Australia
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Quote:
Floyd Hagen wrote: View Post
I don't like this continuing trend enabling of lazy ukemi. I've been in this art around 15 years now, and ukemi seems to get worse and worse because of this attitude that "X" isn't necessary. First koshi nage disappeared, then high falls, and now rolling is not even required. Just because "X" takes effortful practice doesn't mean you should give up on it. If someone wants to try improve their ukemi then they should be encouraged.

High falls may not be necessary, but people who don't participate in them are really missing out on a great aiki experience. There is nothing like providing an attack and then ending up facing in the opposite direction on the other side of the mat, wondering what the hell just happened, with a vague recollection of going head over heels through the air at some point.

My guess is the execution was wrong. Either you executed the fall wrong and still need ukemi practice in this area, or nage executed the technique in a way that did not put you in a natural position to take the high fall-or a combination of both. Practice taking high falls with a partner who understands it's a rotating hara that leads to a high fall, not an arm crank. Let them guide you to where the fall begins and take the fall yourself in a way that feels natural to you by feeling your hara rotate. The lower to the mat they can guide you before your hips begin to rotate the better. We call these "roll out rolls" here. You'll end up layed out on the mat like you took a high fall, but you really never leave the ground. Then you can work your way up to a higher fall.
I agree with this. If you post a video of yourself taking a high fall, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can constructively critique your technique.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #14
Dalaran1991
Location: Paris
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
France
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Quote:
Floyd Hagen wrote: View Post
I don't like this continuing trend enabling of lazy ukemi. I've been in this art around 15 years now, and ukemi seems to get worse and worse because of this attitude that "X" isn't necessary. First koshi nage disappeared, then high falls, and now rolling is not even required. Just because "X" takes effortful practice doesn't mean you should give up on it. If someone wants to try improve their ukemi then they should be encouraged.

High falls may not be necessary, but people who don't participate in them are really missing out on a great aiki experience. There is nothing like providing an attack and then ending up facing in the opposite direction on the other side of the mat, wondering what the hell just happened, with a vague recollection of going head over heels through the air at some point.

My guess is the execution was wrong. Either you executed the fall wrong and still need ukemi practice in this area, or nage executed the technique in a way that did not put you in a natural position to take the high fall-or a combination of both. Practice taking high falls with a partner who understands it's a rotating hara that leads to a high fall, not an arm crank. Let them guide you to where the fall begins and take the fall yourself in a way that feels natural to you by feeling your hara rotate. The lower to the mat they can guide you before your hips begin to rotate the better. We call these "roll out rolls" here. You'll end up layed out on the mat like you took a high fall, but you really never leave the ground. Then you can work your way up to a higher fall.
Haa!!! So glad to see an aikidoka with some spirit! I would say that the reason I do aikido is partly the high fall. It's the most exhilarating experience you can get on a daily basis without having to pay for a roller coaster ride!

I think you maybe right. Since in our dojo people are so lazy to do high falls they don't even execute a technique that allows a high fall anymore. So on the days when my zealous training partners are absent, I basically have to take a high fall by myself even when nage executes a very soft throw. I guess this is making me land heavily. I'll see if I can take some videos.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:17 PM   #15
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Spain
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Sure throwing yourself in the air is fun and exhilarating, but don't confuse this with the real thing.

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Old 12-04-2013, 08:13 PM   #16
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 538
Australia
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Quote:
Long Trinh wrote: View Post
. I'll see if I can take some videos.
In the mean time, check this out. The early exercises are a great way to build up to softer high falls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpBpM38TMg
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:27 PM   #17
fatebass21
Dojo: Westminster Tenshinkai Aikido Dojo
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Re: Lower back pain after training

Very cool video. I like the progression and build up.

Chris Sawyer
Fountain Valley, CA
Tenshinkai Aikido Federation
Training day is every day
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