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Old 11-01-2013, 08:59 AM   #1
Belt_Up
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Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

I've rarely seen stuff like this.

http://brisbanechentaichi.weebly.com...knowledge.html
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:43 PM   #2
Michael Varin
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Hmm?

I'm kind of surprised that this post got no replies.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:03 AM   #3
Belt_Up
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

I'm not. Threads in this section of the forums either do extremely well, or, er, not. I hope the link is helpful to whoever sees it anyway! It's really good to see things like this openly available.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:54 AM   #4
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
I'm kind of surprised that this post got no replies.
What do you think could/should be discussed? Did you find something special wrong/new/different ... that should be adressed?
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:39 PM   #5
Belt_Up
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Well it doesn't appear to be doing too badly on r/aikido.

Such clear, concise explanation of body mechanics and physical principles that are common to taiji and aikido is very new to me. Quite often, I have had to rely on complex, imprecise instructions. These diagrams, shorn of a lot of the cultural trappings (Japanese or Chinese) are easier to understand, and should be widely disseminated.

They may be old hat to those more experienced, I don't know. To relative and actual beginners, however, they will come in much more useful than a long-winded explanation, or outright dissembling.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #6
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Ah, ok. Yes you are right: Even if it's not new, those diagramms are indeed very interesting and helpfull.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #7
Stephen Nichol
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
Geoff Byers wrote: View Post
Well it doesn't appear to be doing too badly on r/aikido.

Such clear, concise explanation of body mechanics and physical principles that are common to taiji and aikido is very new to me. Quite often, I have had to rely on complex, imprecise instructions. These diagrams, shorn of a lot of the cultural trappings (Japanese or Chinese) are easier to understand, and should be widely disseminated.

They may be old hat to those more experienced, I don't know. To relative and actual beginners, however, they will come in much more useful than a long-winded explanation, or outright dissembling.
+ 1 for me on this.

This explanation along with the exercise set from the Aunkai DVDs are very useful. They help one be more aware of what they are doing when both observing the movement inside the 'techniques' of Aikido and what to be mindful of when doing those movements yourself.

So big thank you for find this and linking it here.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:39 AM   #8
Belt_Up
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

You're welcome, please continue to pass it on.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:24 AM   #9
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Yep good stuff Geoff, thanks
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:18 AM   #10
Michael Varin
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
What do you think could/should be discussed? Did you find something special wrong/new/different ... that should be adressed?
What makes anyone reply to any thread?

I thought the drawings were very well done. The author/artist obviously put a considerable amount of thought and effort into the drawings. And they seem to communicate something the author/artist felt was important, and also something that many here have struggled to express with words.

In the past, this sort of thing has drawn a lot of commentary. I don't really care one way or the other. I was just surprised that nothing was said about the content of the drawings.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:20 AM   #11
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
In the past, this sort of thing has drawn a lot of commentary.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

Quote:
I was just surprised that nothing was said about the content of the drawings.
Indeed I think they very well done and express a lot of experience. I myself read a lot of books about qi gong /taiji quan and relatet stuff. So I am used to things being explained by such drawings. And also I did not find some controversial stuff in those drawings but only basics.

So not realizing that there had been discussions about similar drawnings in the past, I wondered what your question was about.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:33 AM   #12
Michael Varin
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Oh, I wasn't aware of that.

Indeed I think they very well done and express a lot of experience. I myself read a lot of books about qi gong /taiji quan and relatet stuff. So I am used to things being explained by such drawings. And also I did not find some controversial stuff in those drawings but only basics.

So not realizing that there had been discussions about similar drawnings in the past, I wondered what your question was about.
Come on. You've been around long enough. You don't remember Mike Sigman's lines that were drawn over Tohei that wasn't actually Tohei, or Eric Mead's advanced engineering diagrams, or any of Chris Hein's representations of alignment? None of which had the artistic detail of the drawings that were the subject of this thread.

Really, I'm not requesting further discussion. Just wondering why it didn't occur.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:11 AM   #13
Keith Larman
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Come on. You've been around long enough. You don't remember Mike Sigman's lines that were drawn over Tohei that wasn't actually Tohei, or Eric Mead's advanced engineering diagrams, or any of Chris Hein's representations of alignment? None of which had the artistic detail of the drawings that were the subject of this thread.

Really, I'm not requesting further discussion. Just wondering why it didn't occur.
Because in the very same way so many experienced people stopped posting due to comments by the barrage of comments by over-enthusiastic IP enthusiasts, now it seems it is impossible to have a discussion about some things without the over-enthusiastic non-IP enthusiasts grasping at straws sticking out of the very tired and worn out straw man.

I know quite a few folk, instructors themselves, high ranking, many quite well known who rarely post any longer. Because it's the same dynamic, just the other side of it. (And no, I'm not trying to use argument from authority, there are likely just as many if not more disgusted high quality/high ranking folk not posting for the exact opposite reason.) These are the people (from both sides generally) who get together and answer the questions on the mat because discussing it here is simply too painful when you have to deal with the arm chair occupying demands from way off in the cheap seats.

FWIW I had a long and very detailed discussion with a couple folk I train with on these drawings as I forwarded the website to them. Yes, they are lovely drawings and they do illustrate aspects of things some of us are working on. Do I have anything more to say about it here?

Nope.

I've been in the martial arts (with a few breaks) basically all my life starting from childhood. I'm over 50 now and I quite frankly have long lost the desire to placate the skepticism of others on an on-line forum. It is too difficult to have these discussions here. And I'll say I've *never* had a bad experience simply getting together with fellow martial artists including the sincere folk who doubt. It was great seeing William Hazen (sorry to drop your name, dude) at a recent seminar. We got to "hold hands" a few times in that seminar. Big, strong, powerful man that I would in no way want to tussle with. And to his immense credit you could damned near see the light bulb light up over his head. I gained tremendous respect for him that Saturday morning. A lifetime of training and he walks in to put it on the line and see what's going on. But I also sincerely doubt he feels he's wasted time, or that his training was a waste in any way, shape or form. I would guess his reaction was much like mine -- Cool, more stuff I can work on to get better. Which is what drives an awful lot of folk who get good at this stuff, neh? It ain't the confirmation, it ain't the "winning", it's about having more to explore, more nuance, more things to try...

Yeah, maybe it's not the "real thing" and maybe it's not "real that" or maybe it's not "this" but really "that". Don't give a damn about those things really. To me it's simply more good stuff that I find feeding in to most everything I have learned over these decades, including stuff that has nothing at all to do with Aikido. Just good martial practice.

No, not much discussion. Because if you do take the longer view looking back over the discussions, really, the discussion has been going on for a really long time. So please feel free to continue talking. Just understand that there are a whole lot of people who likely still just read along, get annoyed, think of posting then remind themselves of the Heinlein quote "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig." And before anyone gets their fundoshi in a knot, no, I'm not comparing anyone to pigs. Wonderful, intelligent creatures and their smoked bits are fantastic. They're just not big on singing. I get that.

So I guess I could have summarized this entire post thus... Damatte keikoshiro. Now to act on that very thing... EOM.

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Old 11-05-2013, 08:35 AM   #14
Budd
 
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

It's a nice link to explaining the basics of what's going on. It's also somewhat indicative of the tremendous amount of work required to get your foot in the door of doing anything even approaching 6 harmonies type of activity. Nothing else to discuss, argue or evangelize here.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:36 AM   #15
Belt_Up
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Re: Taiji - some rather fine diagrams.

Quote:
These are the people (from both sides generally) who get together and answer the questions on the mat because discussing it here is simply too painful when you have to deal with the arm chair occupying demands from way off in the cheap seats.
Do you have to respond to them or even acknowledge them? If they're anti-IP, and we know IP is a thing (or a good chunk of our community is totally deluded), then why bother to even talk to them? I appreciate the process of discussion on aikiweb and forums in general can be very wearing (hence the opening of a section here to explicitly discuss IP, I suppose) but I posted these diagrams thinking they would assist the visualisation process (and possibly understanding) for people who viewed them, without any thought to another round of Yes-it-does/No-it-doesn't on IP. I didn't even think they could be debated on such terms (more the fool I!), I thought of them merely in connection with good practice and what your average aikidoka is trying to do, and I've never had any personal experience of IP.
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