Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Weapons

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-30-2013, 01:31 PM   #1
Zoe S Toth
Dojo: Seidokan Aikido of South Carolina
Location: Columbia, SC
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 34
United_States
Offline
Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Hey folks,

Alright maybe I'm too much of a DIYer but as I keep having to explain to the college kids that we don't have enough jos for the whole club to practice (huge freshman group this year) I keep thinking about dowel rods.

I mean...it's a stick.

So I am asking for help because I have no clue about wood working/ weapons/ whatever.

By my guess:

1) Figure out how tall I would need it. 5"?
2) Carve off edges?
3) Oil

Any help/ suggestions would be great.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 01:35 PM   #2
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 610
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

As long as there's never any stick-to-stick contact....

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 01:52 PM   #3
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,541
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Zoe, since I know you're in Seidokan, most training in our jogi does not involve any sort of serious contact so the quality of the wood for contact isn't a major concern. Some of us in Seidokan, however, do occasionally get in to that but I'll tend to use my own jo for those demos since some people are so very attached to their pretty pieces of wood. I like mine to have dents and bumps -- it shows it's been loved but I also tend to train outside of Seidokan as well. So my weapons are pretty much banged and dinged up. And my favorite Jo for that is one I bought from Bujin trading many years ago -- 3 pieces of wood glued together with the grain opposing to form a really tough composite jo. I've named her Mary Jean... But that said, dowels are fine (in our style), but sand it down and maybe use a light wax (minwax finishing wax is nice) to protect it. If you feel splinters, toss it. It ain't worth the pain of pulling a chunk of wood out of your hand.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 01:53 PM   #4
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,541
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Oops, I forgot. The convention in our dojo is about 50" long. Or if you want to be more precise, the length that will fit under the students armpit to the ground standing straight up.

Best of luck.

Keith

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 02:00 PM   #5
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,541
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Oh, and in case it isn't obvious, Fred's point above is that the standard dowels you see in hardware stores (broom handle blanks, etc) tend to be a cheap hardwood that will shatter and splinter on even light impact. Dangerous on many levels for certain types of practice. If you're just "air swinging" (as in solo Seidokan jogi practice), no worries.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #6
Andrew S
 
Andrew S's Avatar
Dojo: Kenshinkai Dojos
Location: Tokorozawa
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 102
Japan
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

I'm no expert about wood etc, but here's a thought.
A karate group also uses the dojo I train in. They do some kind of work with a bo, and have half a dozen or so bo stored at the dojo. Only one of these is a genuine oak bo, the rest are all hardware store bought softwood.

As other posters here have already said, if you do any kind of contact, you want real oak or other hardwood jo. If it is a temporary measure for teaching basic suburi etc, softwood may be the way to go for a dojo "pool", while encouraging people to purchase their own proper jo.

All of our dojo have a pool of cheaper red oak jo and bokuto, but folks are encouraged to buy their own weapons, and can do so through the dojo (nice white oak weapons).

Warning: Do not bend, fold or otherwise abuse... until we get to the dojo..


合気道研心会 Aikido Kenshinkai
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #7
Conrad Gus
 
Conrad Gus's Avatar
Dojo: Victoria Family Aikido
Location: Victoria, BC
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 243
Canada
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Wouldn't a piece of dowel be way too light? I think that a person would pick up some terrible habits with a wispy little rod. You could learn forms, I suppose, but trying to do suburi would be worse than useless.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2013, 11:14 PM   #8
Millsy
Dojo: AikiCenter(Aus)/SOMD Aikido(US)
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 92
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

As mentioned above, I'd stay clear of cheap hard wood. Back when I trained at hitting weapons hard I had the top 9-12 inches of my partners jo shear off while I was blocking yokomen, creating two very sharply pointed pieces of wood. The top 9 inches whizzed like a dagger past my ear and the short spear my partner was wielding stopped near my throat. We were both a little surprised by the situation and realised that could have been ugly. It was made of cheap brittle hard wood.

Funny years latter he still has that short spear as a reminder.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 06:29 AM   #9
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,758
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

get a rod of Appalachian hickory 3/4" to 1" thick about your shoulder height. oil: 1/2 tung + 1/2 linseed. rub it on regularly for the first few months. then twice a year after.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 06:32 AM   #10
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,769
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

I think it's important to (at a minimum) use something that has at least approximately the same dimensions as the real deal - so, length and thickness typical of an aiki jo.

Dowel wood seems calculated to raise blisters without a good job of sanding and finishing. Between the effort needed to track down a dowel of that length and thickness, cutting it, sanding it and finishing it, I wonder if you couldn't scrounge through dumpsters for deposit bottles and buy a real jo for less effort ;-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 08:41 AM   #11
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,758
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Dowel wood seems calculated to raise blisters without a good job of sanding and finishing. Between the effort needed to track down a dowel of that length and thickness, cutting it, sanding it and finishing it, I wonder if you couldn't scrounge through dumpsters for deposit bottles and buy a real jo for less effort ;-)
some people just like to build things with their own hands. a friend of mine did just that. he could have buy a bunch of nice jo, but decided to make one himself. it's also good that he's a wood worker too.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 10:16 AM   #12
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,541
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Yeah, I've made a few myself and a few bokken. Hell, I put together koshirae for swords so why would I want to pay someone else to do it for me with a jo or bokken? And fwiw, I do have some really nice ones bought from various folk out there doing this work themselves because I like to support those who do it. And if someone wants to perform that meditative act of cutting, sanding, and oiling then by all means go for it. Years ago I made a handful of shorter jo so I could start kids off with properly sized jo.

If you can find a white or red oak 1" diameter piece that's relatively straight, go for it. Clean it up, wipe it well, do what Phi suggested up above or go with something like a good minwax finishing wax (you'll need to reapply occasionally).

And to those who worry about stick to stick, there's some discussions out there about how various woods react. Use google and search for it. Kim Taylor has written some good stuff on the topic over the last decade.

And frankly the first thing I do if I get a new weapon from some other place is strip the finish and redo the whole thing. Because it's what I do. And because I enjoy it. And because it's fun. And because I can. And because it makes it more "mine". Hell, I usually reshape bokken I get just to make them a bit more to my liking...

All that said you can also find relatively inexpensive jo if you look on-line in places like karate supply places. They're generally cheap but they work (although with most of those I'd still stay away from any significant contact).

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 11:57 AM   #13
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,769
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
And if someone wants to perform that meditative act of cutting, sanding, and oiling then by all means go for it.
I understand why you, a woodworker, would do that. OP stated that he's not a woodworker. That changes things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 12:24 PM   #14
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,541
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I understand why you, a woodworker, would do that. OP stated that he's not a woodworker. That changes things.
Nah, this isn't exactly rocket science and I think that was the point of the question as she was verifying that. A little elbow grease, some sandpaper, a saw and a little wax or oil. Now if she was going to be turning the blanks on a lathe... But if you're buying dowels there's not much left to do...

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #15
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,758
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

how's about solid oak curtain rod of the right diameter that you can cut down to your size? just a thought.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 01:37 PM   #16
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,931
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
how's about solid oak curtain rod of the right diameter that you can cut down to your size? just a thought.
Ukiah Aikido beginning students sometimes use inexpensive solid hardwood curtain or closet rod they can buy locally for practicing solo at home.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2013, 05:37 AM   #17
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 387
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

If you go with oiling up curtain rods, choose your oil well. This one time.... really, I thought a good dose of lemon oil would help my jo and make it smell nice, because that's important, right? I might as well have slathered my jo with tiger balm, ben gay, napalm, hot lava, antartica, a witch's tit, and the insides of a couple medium sized suns. Apparently, a tiny bit of lemon oil would add some bite to a homemade jow....

Quote:
Zoe Toth wrote: View Post
Hey folks,

Alright maybe I'm too much of a DIYer but as I keep having to explain to the college kids that we don't have enough jos for the whole club to practice (huge freshman group this year) I keep thinking about dowel rods.

I mean...it's a stick.

So I am asking for help because I have no clue about wood working/ weapons/ whatever.

By my guess:

1) Figure out how tall I would need it. 5"?
2) Carve off edges?
3) Oil

Any help/ suggestions would be great.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2013, 07:40 PM   #18
Malicat
Dojo: Suenaka-Ha Aikido of Bloomington
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 140
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Zoe, I know you are trying to cut down on money spent with the DIY option, but you can get a 42" staff (called a bo, but hey, that length is doable, if a bit short) for 12.50 online. Bulk orders from a dojo also get a discount, although I'm not sure how much you need to spend to qualify. I'll agree it's tacky and awful, but hey, it's a stick, right? Also someone else raised the same concern that I had, which was that a dowel is going to be almost too lightweight to use.

Anyway, hopefully these are in your price range. I order all my gi from this supply place, primarily because their shipping is awesomely fast, and I don't like the ones that my dojo orders.

--Ashley

http://www.awma.com/productdetail/36...red-prism.html

Quote:
Zoe Toth wrote: View Post
Hey folks,

Alright maybe I'm too much of a DIYer but as I keep having to explain to the college kids that we don't have enough jos for the whole club to practice (huge freshman group this year) I keep thinking about dowel rods.

I mean...it's a stick.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:54 AM   #19
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 51
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

Finished wood broom handles cost $5 at Home Depot, Walmart, or hardware store. They come standard at 60 inches so you need to cut them down to 50-52 inches with a saw . Bevel sand the cut end. Great for Jo Kata, Jo Suburi practice and even Jo Dori. I have a couple myself. They are about the same weight as a "proper" jo and I like to use them for practice outside on the concrete patio where I don't want to get my expensive "proper" jo scuffed up.

BUT you cannot use them for anything other than no contact or just light "touching" contact. They will definitely shatter with minimal provocation. You MUST use a real jo for striking stick to stick otherwise someone could easily lose an eye from flying wood shards when it shatters on a hard strike - deliberately or accidentally.

Makes a great walking stick (and hence aggressive-dog self-defense weapon) but rely on poking attacks because it can definitely break if you strike with it and meet hard resistance.

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Shodan - Started Aikido training in 2008
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 03:40 PM   #20
Linda Eskin
 
Linda Eskin's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of San Diego, San Diego, California
Location: San Diego County, California
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 326
United_States
Offline
Re: Dowel Rod ----> Jo?

I'll second (or third) the admonitions to not use dowels, broom handles, etc. for any contact. I have a couple I turned into jo when I first started, and they are great for backyard solo practice, but I would not allow them in the dojo. They are very nice (beveled, sanded, oiled, and burnished), but not safe. They are also too light, and too thick (which was an advantage when I started, but now feels weird).

Several of us at my dojo have had good luck with oak weapons from NineCirclesUSA.com. Very well made, pretty white oak, reasonably priced. They sell sets of 4 or 10 at a discount. Maybe if a bunch of folks ordered them together...
http://www.ninecirclesusa.com/Wooden...-_10_Pack.aspx

Linda Eskin - Facebook | My AikiBlog

"Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train." - Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aiki Ken and Aiki Jo suburi sorokod Weapons 7 11-18-2012 02:40 PM
Bokken and Jo questions seank Weapons 19 01-13-2010 09:06 AM
Bokken and jo set from Aikiwood Jennifer Yabut Weapons 13 11-07-2009 12:46 PM
Jo tsuki Michael Cardwell Weapons 11 08-12-2007 10:32 AM
Systema Seminar with Vladimir Vasiliev, Part 1 aikibaka131 Seminars 2 07-22-2003 12:45 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:50 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate