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Old 09-25-2013, 01:28 PM   #26
Gerardo Torres
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Re: bokken strike style

I will just point out that not all "iai" styles are conceived or practiced in the same way, not even close. There are also "traditional swordsmanship" styles that contain iai within their curricula. Not everything is public domain, so opinions of what constitutes this or that will vary based on available information.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #27
Keith Larman
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Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Gerardo Torres wrote: View Post
I will just point out that not all "iai" styles are conceived or practiced in the same way, not even close. There are also "traditional swordsmanship" styles that contain iai within their curricula. Not everything is public domain, so opinions of what constitutes this or that will vary based on available information.
Of course... but in the end there is still the question of whether a particular means of "striking" with a sword will actually cut effectively and do so without damaging the blade. The answer to that question doesn't care much about who is doing it. Just how. And it's quite reproducible. You know, physics and all that.

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Old 09-25-2013, 02:05 PM   #28
Cliff Judge
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Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Of course... but in the end there is still the question of whether a particular means of "striking" with a sword will actually cut effectively and do so without damaging the blade. The answer to that question doesn't care much about who is doing it. Just how. And it's quite reproducible. You know, physics and all that.
I also didn't want to bring up the mystery of why it is that EVERY traditional sword school besides the one I train in seems to spend hours every week learning how to make it easy for me to kill them. Insult to injury is just not my style.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #29
Gerardo Torres
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Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Of course... but in the end there is still the question of whether a particular means of "striking" with a sword will actually cut effectively and do so without damaging the blade. The answer to that question doesn't care much about who is doing it. Just how. And it's quite reproducible. You know, physics and all that.
I agree that actual cutting ability (and taking care of the blade) are essential no matter the style or performer. I also think it's important that the cutting technique works well in a martial engagement (this is also reproducible) as opposed to just proper target cutting. There's a lot to consider wrt the original topic, hence the different approaches including the use of swords for tanren or for aikido technical study as has been mentioned before.

Last edited by Gerardo Torres : 09-25-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:05 PM   #30
Keith Larman
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Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Gerardo Torres wrote: View Post
I agree that actual cutting ability (and taking care of the blade) are essential no matter the style or performer. I also think it's important that the cutting technique works well in a martial engagement (this is also reproducible) as opposed to just proper target cutting. There's a lot to consider wrt the original topic, hence the different approaches including the use of swords for tanren or for aikido technical study as has been mentioned before.
No doubt about it. Again my only point is that people not conflate them.

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Old 09-27-2013, 03:43 PM   #31
Michael Varin
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Re: bokken strike style

Just a few comments. . .

My teacher trained in Iwama for about seven years. He insisted that they used the bokken as a weapon in its own right; a blunt impact weapon not a cutting weapon, obviously.

Aikido is the only art I have trained that uses weapons. At the time I first tried target cutting with a sword, I had been training very regularly in Iwama style aikido for about four years. After adjusting to the weight and balance of the sword, I cut the target on my first attempt easily and with no damage to the sword. Did it look like James Williams? No. But it was better than most of the first time tameshigiri videos I've seen. And that was after a number of people told me how bad it was going to end for me and the sword.

Watching Saito in the video today, I realize I have slightly tweaked my cut. It's still mostly Saito style, but not quite.

I'm not sure why Iwama bokken work couldn't be applied to cutting with a sword. I did it. I am in no way addressing koryu or any other sword styles. There are many reasons why they would want to rebuild someone's form that have nothing to do with cutting a target.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:41 AM   #32
Riai Maori
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Smile Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Just a few comments. . .

My teacher trained in Iwama for about seven years. He insisted that they used the bokken as a weapon in its own right; a blunt impact weapon not a cutting weapon, obviously.
...and further more, an Iwama first generation student told me that the Bokken is only a "body movement exercise tool" used in Aikido and is not a sword or cutting weapon.

Last edited by akiy : 02-07-2014 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:56 AM   #33
Keith Larman
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Re: bokken strike style

Showed my wife basic safety about the swing, had her line up and she cut targets with no problem either. She has zero martial arts experience whatsoever. Anyone can cut a target. Most can be shown in minutes how to do it without damaging a blade. That's not the point. Never has been.

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Old 02-08-2014, 12:26 AM   #34
Riai Maori
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Freaky! Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
"Showed my wife basic safety about the swing, She has zero martial arts experience whatsoever"
...not no more friend...me prefer wife have zero sword experience. Sleep much better at night.

Last edited by akiy : 02-08-2014 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 02-08-2014, 07:20 AM   #35
Keith Larman
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Re: bokken strike style

I've been married for over 25 years. Hate to tell you this, but spouses don't need a sword to be dangerous... That's the least of your worries.

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Old 02-08-2014, 06:27 PM   #36
Janet Rosen
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Re: bokken strike style

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
I've been married for over 25 years. Hate to tell you this, but spouses don't need a sword to be dangerous... That's the least of your worries.
True dat.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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