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Old 08-31-2013, 12:14 PM   #1
ChrisHein
 
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Aikido spear- Aikiso

Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Enjoy-
Explanation: http://www.aikidostudent.com/ASCv2/?p=122

Suburi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9Zp9UsrA0

Kumiso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TGrVMUKMU

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Old 08-31-2013, 02:58 PM   #2
Michael Hackett
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Chris,

I don't know the yari at all, but your mawashi burai demonstration shows clearly that you know what you are doing with a jo. Well done.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:34 PM   #3
Dazaifoo
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Looks good!
What length of yari do you use for practice?
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #4
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Thanks Michael.
Scott, It's around 54".

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Old 09-20-2013, 12:33 PM   #5
Leonaiki
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Good work indeed.

It is slowly coming to public knowledge that the jo is not a wooden stick but a yari - Ueshiba sensei's version at least.

How do you link that practice of spear and taijutsu ?

best
L
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:28 AM   #6
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Leon Bournazel wrote: View Post

How do you link that practice of spear and taijutsu ?

best
L
It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to answer this question. I really don't see a difference between weapon work and Taijutsu. I think, many people say "taijutsu" and mean a kind of karate (empty hand techniques). I don't really understand taijutsu this way. I understand taijutsu to mean: body skills. The body may or may not have a weapon attached to it.

Specific weapon skills- Kenjutsu, Jojutsu, Sojutsu etc teach how you can best use your body to interact with that specific weapon. While taijutsu teaches how you use your body overall. Any weapon system that is part of a larger taijutsu system, must have the same body use skills- same taijutsu, if that system has any continuity.

So, I would say the two (my taijutsu, and sojutsu) are linked in every way. The sojutsu is an extension of my taijutsu.

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Old 09-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #7
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Enjoy-
Explanation: http://www.aikidostudent.com/ASCv2/?p=122

Suburi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9Zp9UsrA0

Kumiso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TGrVMUKMU
Dear Hein Sensei,
Thank you for posting the vids.I found them interesting.Nevertheless the forms shown bear little resemblance to the forms Jo work that I study.Unfortunately despite my having a wealth of ken/jo video material I do not know how to post such material on the Net.For example the forms called Sansho one , Two and Three are available on Youtube I believe.Worth a look I would suggest, Cheers, Joe
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:35 PM   #8
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Hein Sensei,
Thank you for posting the vids.I found them interesting.Nevertheless the forms shown bear little resemblance to the forms Jo work that I study.Unfortunately despite my having a wealth of ken/jo video material I do not know how to post such material on the Net.For example the forms called Sansho one , Two and Three are available on Youtube I believe.Worth a look I would suggest, Cheers, Joe
I watched the videos on youtube- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UXyRRiDANI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqbZAGu7q0U

I liked them. To me the material presented in those videos is very similar to the material shown in the Kumiso. What do you mean by "bears little resemblance"? They are not the same forms, but most (if not all) of the same body ideas, movements, and principles are the same. Do you not find this to be true?

To me, the Sansho videos show the same basic ideas of Aikido "stick" work as most of the other Aikido styles I've looked at. Do you not find this to be true?

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Old 02-08-2014, 01:17 AM   #9
Riai Maori
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.
Nice display. Have a look here www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNq4_RrUrg

This is a traditional spear art my ancestors (Maori) used to fight the enemy and is still taught today. The name of the weapon is called a Tiaha and they vary in length. One end is shaped as a club while the other end has a point for spearing. The feathers at the pointed end are for visual distraction while you get whacked with the club end.

Last edited by akiy : 02-08-2014 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:49 AM   #10
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

That was a really great video! Thanks!

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Old 03-15-2014, 02:21 AM   #11
ravenest
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Here are some spear suburi and forms I've been working on over the last several years. They represent material that I feel wasn't clearly illustrated in the Aikido jo work I learned. Through my experience with the Dog brothers and other weapon sparring adventures, I realized that much of what we can do with the jo is underemphasized and easy to overlook. Through my studies of other traditional Japanese weapon systems and a deeper look into Aikido jo work, I felt something was missing from my schools jo work. Instead of reworking the existing material that I had learned (and value) I added a set of spear forms to my schools curriculum. I believe these forms, suburi and other practices can help to clarify more of what is happening in Aikido "jo" work.

Enjoy-
Explanation: http://www.aikidostudent.com/ASCv2/?p=122

Suburi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9Zp9UsrA0

Kumiso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TGrVMUKMU
Excellent ! Thankyou ! All these years I wanted to learn Yari and didnt think I would be able to find a teacher where I live .... yet I have done a fair bit of Jo ... in Aikido and an Okinawan form. It sure makes sense ( I am one to ask a lot of 'annoying questions' .... like; why those seemingly unnecessary 'twirls' and end changes with the Jo ) .

next training session with my Okinawan style teacher ( who doesnt mind a bit of 'innovation') I will suggest the idea ( as his Jo forms actually came from an Aikido guy years back ,....
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:31 AM   #12
ravenest
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Richard Campbell wrote: View Post
Nice display. Have a look here www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNq4_RrUrg

This is a traditional spear art my ancestors (Maori) used to fight the enemy and is still taught today. The name of the weapon is called a Tiaha and they vary in length. One end is shaped as a club while the other end has a point for spearing. The feathers at the pointed end are for visual distraction while you get whacked with the club end.
Thank you too . I have seen a bit before ( travelled NZ yeeeeaaaars ago ).

One time this Maori guy saw us training kobudo in the park here (with Eku ) he really took a second take at it .... also the Samoan guy that lives near by (he has the full leg tattoos happening ) was checking us out.

Indigenous Martial Arts - love it ! There are some here but most are secret and initiated mens knowledge ... however , relatively recently Careeda has become public. Good stuff, good for culture and the young fellas

.http://www.coreedaoz.com/main/page_faq.html

Keep up the good work, great stuff !
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:45 AM   #13
ravenest
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Also this :

Quote:
Richard Campbell wrote: View Post
. One end is shaped as a club while the other end has a point for spearing.
I also wanted to learn an Okinawan form with a similar dual natured ended weapon, but its not in my teachers repertoire

A small turtle shell shield and a shaft with spear point one end and a club (sometimes a lump of coral) on the other).

http://www.allstars.net.au/weapons.html#rochen

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Old 03-16-2014, 11:45 AM   #14
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

If I was you, I would rather stick very close with jodo, there are some strong teachers around. Jodo teach well martial principles and correct use of the body when working with weapons.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:50 PM   #15
ravenest
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
If I was you, I would rather stick very close with jodo, there are some strong teachers around. Jodo teach well martial principles and correct use of the body when working with weapons.
Yes I see the value of that ( could be seen as the 'mother' ) especially for single, longer shaft weapons ... I do kobudo so train in multiple weapons.

- not many teachers where I live ... out in the country.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:37 PM   #16
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Nice vids. Well done :-)

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Old 04-12-2014, 12:38 PM   #17
Michael Douglas
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

I didn't watch the linked videos, but I did read the comments : a lot of them recommending Jo work.
In my opinion ... for effective (and I mean real effective) use of a SPEAR ... if you ever (EVER!) turn it around and use the wrong end : you're a complete idiot, or just messing about.
Spear is completely and utterly different to a stick. Deal with it.
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Old 04-13-2014, 10:27 PM   #18
hughrbeyer
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

So bashing someone with the butt of a jo works, but not with the butt of a spear? Good to know.

And hitting them with the butt of your sword would be, of course, unthinkable.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:59 PM   #19
Riai Maori
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
I didn't watch the linked videos, but I did read the comments : a lot of them recommending Jo work.
In my opinion ... for effective (and I mean real effective) use of a SPEAR ... if you ever (EVER!) turn it around and use the wrong end : you're a complete idiot, or just messing about.
Spear is completely and utterly different to a stick. Deal with it.
How can you make an inaccurate comment without watching the Video's. there are many spears that have a club end. OPEN YOUR EYES and DEAL with THAT!!!!!

There is always 3 sides to a story, their side, your side and the TRUTH
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:30 PM   #20
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Aren't you people overreacting just a wee trifle? Of course you can use the butt end of a spear as a staff, but unless you're being completely disingenuous and looking to pick a fight, you'll have to admit that a spear also has a "business end". And, if you are being completely disingenuous and looking to pick a fight, maybe you should go back to bed, have a nice nap, and get up on the right side this time.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:47 PM   #21
Keith Larman
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
I didn't watch the linked videos, but I did read the comments : a lot of them recommending Jo work.
In my opinion ... for effective (and I mean real effective) use of a SPEAR ... if you ever (EVER!) turn it around and use the wrong end : you're a complete idiot, or just messing about.
Spear is completely and utterly different to a stick. Deal with it.
Wow. I mean, really, wow. You're basing that on what? Do you know what the thing is on the end of a yari haft? It's called an ishizuki. I've seen a huge number of antique ishizuki and they were *clearly* not just decoration. One of these days you might want to get out and look at a few antique ishizuki and I think you might want to revise your opinion. Often made of iron and often with a point as well to reduce the impact area to a very small point, they were well regarded as impact weapons in their own right. Some are downright vicious looking and one could easily fracture a skull.

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Old 04-14-2014, 02:56 PM   #22
Keith Larman
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Maybe this will help...
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Last edited by Keith Larman : 04-14-2014 at 03:01 PM. Reason: forgot attachment - doh!

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Old 04-14-2014, 03:15 PM   #23
Keith Larman
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

And when there is more than one attacker... Like someone behind you...

The point for me is that it isn't an issue of obviously the yari itself (or naginata for that matter) being the bladed end, but in most styles I've seen they rather actively train on using both ends of the haft. Which is why there's an ishizuki in the first place and such a huge variety of styles depending on ryu/regional style/etc. Color me puzzled...

And yes, some styles of swordsmanship also have strikes with the kashira. And there are a few rather rare types of kashira with "pointy bits" ostensibly for that very purpose. But it's no where near as common as in yari work in particular.

And for that matter you should see the incredible variety of styles of yari which also impact how they're used. You're not going to use a tanpo yari the same as a jumanji yari or a kagigata. And if you want to talk absolutely vicious look up futamata yari.

And on the point of regional differences, the kagi yari also has an iron "sword catcher" about a foot down the haft from the yari blade itself. The applications of the weapon are going to be clearly different.

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Old 04-14-2014, 08:03 PM   #24
phitruong
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Maybe this will help...
you know, if you give the swiss army a chance, they might be able to pack all of that into one.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 04-14-2014, 08:37 PM   #25
Riai Maori
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Re: Aikido spear- Aikiso

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
you know, if you give the swiss army a chance, they might be able to pack all of that into one.
Too much! Can't stop laughing

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