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Old 08-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #101
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: Ki energy defined

Quote:
Bernd Lehnen wrote: View Post
You should have seen the sort of desperate expression on the face of practically any Asian I have dared to ask how she/he would define KI, be she/he of Chinese, Japanese or any other Asian cultural heritage. More so, when they were well into scientific thinking.

They simply did not use Ki as a defined entity, they had to add at least one other meme to this quite undefined "nonsensical" part, a meme in itself, and only then in this combination it started to take on "definite meaning".

So, looking for definite meaning in Ki as a stand-alone term itself seems to be a typical crazy western people predilection.

Reading through this thread what I found were opinions, if anything.

Best,

Bernd
Don't know who you were talking to, I find it more western to think Ki isn't used independently. I was with a Japanese friend in his shop when one of his employees was grumbling and complaining. He just called him over and said"Today you bad Ki.....go home!"

They probably don't mention Ki or 'pretend' they don't use it as such when talking to those they can see from experience will not have a clue what they are talking about.

I don't go around using the word when talking to most but if they enter the dojo......ah, my world....standard.

Peace.G.
 
Old 08-14-2013, 11:02 AM   #102
bkedelen
 
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Re: Ki energy defined

Quote:
Hilary Heinmets wrote: View Post
It is one of the reasons that I tried to stress the acceptance of mental models, they may not be ultimate truth, but they sure can come in handy.
This is the very definition of skilful means. It is fine (essential!) to play with body coordination, visualization, and mental models which are not strictly true in an attempt to produce results which are outside the bounds of your partner's expectations, or even outside the bounds of your own expectation. As long as you are bounded by your own expectation you are guaranteed to produce only mundane results.

Within that context, science is useful only in so far as it allows us to avoid branches in the path that are distinctly identifiable as red herrings such as magic, undiscovered fundamental forces, homeopathy, etc..

That is why science consistently fails to produce results in the area of human physical development. It cannot answer the questions we have within our lifetimes, and therefore we must go forth and empiricize, armed with a curious mind and a calibrated bullshit-meter.

"The world’s most successful athletes and coaches rely on exercise science the way deer hunters rely on the accordion." - Greg Glassman
 
Old 08-14-2013, 11:58 AM   #103
Hilary
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Re: Ki energy defined

Hold on there Ben! Never underestimate the power of a good accordion!
 
Old 08-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #104
phitruong
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Re: Ki energy defined

Quote:
Hilary Heinmets wrote: View Post
Hold on there Ben! Never underestimate the power of a good accordion!
please don't! because if you push for accordion, then i would have to counter it with bagpipes and it would be ugly, especially when one of us will have to wear short tartan mini-skirt in commando style.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:44 PM   #105
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ki energy defined

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
please don't! because if you push for accordion, then i would have to counter it with bagpipes and it would be ugly, especially when one of us will have to wear short tartan mini-skirt in commando style.
Well, it's all accordion to who you ask...Seersucker plaid mini-hakama for summer wear in hot climates....then you won't be able to tell the Serious Martial Artist (TM) from a golfer....another fashion idea down the tubes. Back to the ki wars.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
 
Old 08-14-2013, 11:03 PM   #106
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Ki energy defined

I think the ki war has pretty much been put to rest, at least within the boundaries of the scope of this thread. Ki is not a force, a power, or an energy. Those are things which are observable (in the scientific sense of the word) and quantifiable. Ki cannot be observed (again, in the scientific sense of the word) and cannot be quantified, therefore it is not a force, a power, or an energy. What's more, the list of forces, powers, and energies available to the human body is pretty well established.

No one in this thread is arguing against visualization, mental models, mind/body coordination, etc. and no one in this thread is trying to strike the word ki from the aikido lexicon (though I confess I never use the word myself, except in conversations like this).

My martial arts blog: The Young Grasshopper
 
Old 08-15-2013, 04:44 PM   #107
Hilary
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Re: Ki energy defined

Janet's atrocious puns (madam we shall mete out pun-ishment the bloody plains of another thread) and then Matt's succinct wrap up, were the perfect bow with which to tie up all the loose ends of this arduous thread. The quintessential period, the natural end of file, end of the freaking line. For someone who purports to be so in tune with the universe your aesthetics and timing embody all the grace of a one legged Radio City Music Hall Rockette...with gout.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 05:09 PM   #108
Rob Watson
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Re: Ki energy defined

Wait, all this time I thought it was "spirit of loving projection" ... no wonder ... ouch.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 09:57 PM   #109
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ki energy defined

Quote:
Hilary Heinmets wrote: View Post
Janet's atrocious puns (madam we shall mete out pun-ishment the bloody plains of another thread) and then Matt's succinct wrap up, were the perfect bow with which to tie up all the loose ends of this arduous thread. The quintessential period, the natural end of file, end of the freaking line. For someone who purports to be so in tune with the universe your aesthetics and timing embody all the grace of a one legged Radio City Music Hall Rockette...with gout.
Hilary, be warned.....my aikido sucks....but I defer to nobody on rapidfire extemporaneous punning on virtually any topic....

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
 
Old 08-15-2013, 10:10 PM   #110
Krystal Locke
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Re: Ki energy defined

She's lying about her aikido, but not about her mad punning skills.

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Hilary, be warned.....my aikido sucks....but I defer to nobody on rapidfire extemporaneous punning on virtually any topic....
 
Old 08-16-2013, 01:09 AM   #111
Janet Rosen
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Re: Ki energy defined

Aw shucks...thank you

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
 
Old 08-16-2013, 09:50 AM   #112
akiy
 
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Re: Ki energy defined

Thread closed. Discussion going nowhere fast. (Many posts deleted.)

-- Jun

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