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Old 06-18-2013, 08:15 AM   #1
George S. Ledyard
 
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Bruce Klickstein Update

For those who followed the various discussions concerning Bruce Klickstein a year or so ago...
Newsreport

George S. Ledyard
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:15 AM   #2
akiy
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Hi folks,

As always in cases such as this, I'm going to ask for people to be civil in their discussions here on AikiWeb.

Also, I'd like to remind people of the notion of "innocent until proven guilty."

Thank you,

-- Jun

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:22 AM   #3
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
For those who followed the various discussions concerning Bruce Klickstein a year or so ago...
Thanks for the info.

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:32 AM   #4
Gary David
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Hi folks,

As always in cases such as this, I'm going to ask for people to be civil in their discussions here on AikiWeb.

Also, I'd like to remind people of the notion of "innocent until proven guilty."

Thank you,

-- Jun
Jun
Those of us who were around back in the day and know a little of the limited details from that time likely see this as a continuation of past behavior. My only comment......
Gary
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:36 AM   #5
akiy
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Those of us who were around back in the day and know a little of the limited details from that time likely see this as a continuation of past behavior. My only comment......
Yes, I know very well the historical details. I still stand by my request and reminder.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 06-18-2013, 09:54 AM   #6
Gary David
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Yes, I know very well the historical details. I still stand by my request and reminder.

Thanks,

-- Jun
Not for me to say anything more.....no need on my part.
Gary
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:12 AM   #7
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Hi folks,

As always in cases such as this, I'm going to ask for people to be civil in their discussions here on AikiWeb.

Also, I'd like to remind people of the notion of "innocent until proven guilty."

Thank you,

-- Jun
I don't think there's a need for much discussion, that's all been done a long time ago. This was just informational. I'd be fine if you closed it off if you wanted...
- George

George S. Ledyard
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:17 AM   #8
Fred Little
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Let me just say this: for every Jerry Sandusky, there's a Joe Paterno looking the other way.

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Old 06-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #9
Steven
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
Let me just say this.... SNIP
Must be a SEC guy.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:35 PM   #10
Rob Watson
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Karma takes too long.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #11
Marc Abrams
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

The more things change, the more they remain the same.....

Mental health professionals have clearly identified certain areas where dysfunctional behaviors are very, very, very hard to extinguish.

Marc Abrams
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:48 AM   #12
sakumeikan
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
For those who followed the various discussions concerning Bruce Klickstein a year or so ago...
Newsreport
Dear George,
This article /blog has been done to death.Why the rehash? Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:15 AM   #13
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear George,
This article /blog has been done to death.Why the rehash? Cheers, Joe.
another comment would be : "Hey Bruce, stop the criminal behavior." The more people that know about him the better.

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Old 06-19-2013, 07:30 AM   #14
Keith Larman
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear George,
This article /blog has been done to death.Why the rehash? Cheers, Joe.
It's a new allegation of criminal behavior of a sort somewhat related to the original allegations made against him. And I will point out Mr. Klickstein was recently invited by high ranking instructors to teach at a major seminar raising the question as to whether his continued exclusion from the world of Aikido was fair (questions of rehabilitation, forgiveness, etc.). So it isn't a rehash but new information that if proven true would be seen by many as relevant to those questions.

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #15
Janet Rosen
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
It's a new allegation of criminal behavior of a sort somewhat related to the original allegations made against him. And I will point out Mr. Klickstein was recently invited by high ranking instructors to teach at a major seminar raising the question as to whether his continued exclusion from the world of Aikido was fair (questions of rehabilitation, forgiveness, etc.). So it isn't a rehash but new information that if proven true would be seen by many as relevant to those questions.
Exactly.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:29 AM   #16
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

More Details on Father of Two Suspected for Child Porn

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Old 06-19-2013, 11:10 AM   #17
Fred Little
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear George,
This article /blog has been done to death.Why the rehash? Cheers, Joe.
Dear Joe,

I won't claim to speak for George, but I don't think it's fair to say that "this....has been done to death."

Just as the Catholic Church's child-sexual abuse scandal will not be over until not only the abusers, but the apologists and protectors who enabled the continuing predation are subject to identification and public sanction, this isn't going away any time soon.

There will be a trial and a verdict, unless there's a negotiated plea. The long-standing argument that "this is all a matter of he-said, she-said hearsay and we must respect the fact that there have never been criminal charges or any finding of guilt" is going to melt like an ice-cube on asphalt in the West Texas summer.

When -- not if, but when -- that happens, there are some very senior individuals who are going to have to publicly acknowledge that they exhibited dreadful judgment and publicly accept that their own past actions were tragically misguided at best and shamefully complicit at worst.

That part of the end game hasn't even begun.

Regards,

FL

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Old 06-19-2013, 11:21 AM   #18
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
When -- not if, but when -- that happens, there are some very senior individuals who are going to have to publicly acknowledge that they exhibited dreadful judgment and publicly accept that their own past actions were tragically misguided at best and shamefully complicit at worst.
I'm not holding my breath.

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Old 06-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #19
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear George,
This article /blog has been done to death.Why the rehash? Cheers, Joe.
Joe,
Since I was at the center of previous efforts to make people aware of past events and make sure that Klickstein did not re-enter the Aikido community, I can tell you that in my communications with Aikido community leaders there were some, even some very highly ranked who either had the attitude of "that was years ago, time to forgive and forget" or who still seemed to doubt that the accusations had been true in the first place since they were never aired in court. Therefore, this news, which is current and not a rehash, is important to help those folks perhaps reevaluate their attitudes, which fortunately were in a minority.

As difficult as it was for the Europeans to understand what had happened here, since they had been given very skewed accounts of the issue by Klicksetin himself, I wished to make sure that they could see that the efforts to keep Klicksetin from rejoing the Aikido community were in fact justified and that their decision to dis-invite him from participation in a very wonderful memorial event for Saito Sensei saved them from a great deal of potential embarrassment. I have been thanked for bringing this to their attention and they did not know about these latest developments. My relations with the organizers are quite cordial.

Frankly, the folks that fought the good fight way back when Klicksetin was first "outed" never really felt that they had been vindicated publicy for having done so and I think that making sure the community was aware of what has happened serves to show that those early efforts were important and not just some over reaction.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:46 AM   #20
iwamaki
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

I was Bruce's first training partner when he came to Iwama in the early 70s. We trained together on numerous occasions over the next few years.

Bruce trained hard and was getting extremely good in Aikido. He had tremendous potential. It's a tragic shame that it will not be realized.

Unfortunately, I can never forgive Bruce for bringing disgrace to our beloved teacher, Morihiro Saito-sensei, and breaking his heart.

Last edited by iwamaki : 08-04-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 08-04-2013, 01:45 PM   #21
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
David Alexander wrote: View Post
I was Bruce's first training partner when he came to Iwama in the early 70s. We trained together on numerous occasions over the next few years.

Bruce trained hard and was getting extremely good in Aikido. He had tremendous potential. It's a tragic shame that it will not be realized.

Unfortunately, I can never forgive Bruce for bringing disgrace to our beloved teacher, Morihiro Saito-sensei, and breaking his heart.
Do you have any compassion for his victims? Saito has no responsibility for or should wear no shame for the choices of a grown man.

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Old 08-04-2013, 04:30 PM   #22
sakumeikan
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Do you have any compassion for his victims? Saito has no responsibility for or should wear no shame for the choices of a grown man.
Mary,
Well said.If indeed Klickstein acted in a inappropriate manner any shame should be his own responsibility, no one else.Cheers, Joe.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:23 PM   #23
iwamaki
 
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Of course Bruce acted completely on his own and, as I have stated on numerous other occasions, I have total compassion for his victims. They were innocent, underage girls who were preyed upon by an adult pedophile.

In a perfect world, Saito-sensei would be held blameless, which of course he was. Outside of Japan, this is generally the case and everyone, including inside Japan, feels sorry that the reprehensible acts of one of his top foreign students had a negative effect on him.

However, in Japan, inappropriate actions of a student strongly affect the reputation of his teacher. This is the way their culture works. In America we might say that since it happened on his watch, he must share the responsibility.

Saito-sensei took heavy fallout from the Aiki Hombu and was forced to personally strip Bruce of his rank and banish him from Aikido. All of this broke his heart. He is a victim along with the girls.

Last edited by iwamaki : 08-04-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #24
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

Quote:
Klickstein is currently out on bail, but is under electronic surveillance at his San Luis Obispo home, according to the FBI. His trial is scheduled to start in U.S. District Court August 6, 2013.
http://www.ksby.com/news/central-coa...ild-porn-case/

How it went?

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Old 09-26-2013, 07:01 PM   #25
Janet Rosen
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Re: Bruce Klickstein Update

cannot find info in area media nor on the relevant court website

Janet Rosen
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