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Old 03-16-2009, 09:35 AM   #26
DH
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Hi Ellis
As you already know, I am a firm believer in training under pressure. We are one of the few places I know where people get bruised and beat on at speed with weapons and have to maintain their composure. And away from weapons, the same mindset is developed in grappling. The end results I have seen when my guys have gone out to various events is that they are innately calm and undisturbed. Over the years several have reported stories of real life stressed environments and were the calm in the storm.
But there is a real area of expertise in self defense that has gone untrained. And in this day and age should be the most pronounced - verbal de-escalation.
I believe that your books should be a mandate for any serious martial artists-(no not sport grapplers) but people who see past that limited setting into a larger framework of development. In the end the best way *not to fight* is de-escalation before it begins.
It has been my experience in some bad situations that men typically do not want to get to that point. That there was an inherent mechanism of either defensive risk assessment and fear, or inhibition out of knowing they were wrong all before the fight began. It is anther example of the old axioms coming true, in this case men needing to get themselves psyched-up for a fight. Having "talked a guy out of killing his girlfriend, and then being patted on the back, I never felt comfortable with the accolades. I "knew" he didn't want to go through with it and desperately was looking for a way out. I think if we learn to overcome our own fear of fighting, and become very good at it, we can divorce our ego from it and see it as a tool. But more importantly it should not be the only tool in our tool box, the only weapon in our arsenal-of defensive options-not even the best one. But here's the rub, without experience in stress, without having the benefit of experience in say: a trial lawyer, EMT, LEO, Hell even an architect/ construction MGR...Anyone who routinely faces conflict and people in opposition who are facing losses in their life. But where does one go to get that training or understand it? To get *that* tool?
I will go so far as to make your books mandatory reading in my dojo. I'll buy them, they have to read them.
Might I be so bold as to speak to the aikido community?
Many of you are currently training with certain of us who are showing you real power, and a far more capable and realistic means to address an aggressor with skills that are capable of truly stopping people without really hurting them. Might I suggest a different sort of seminar from an expert?
Host a verbal de-escalation seminar, and give people-some of whom are truly passive / aggressive- tools and skills to deal with aggression and self defense on another level. It is after all another means to Ueshiba's end goals of budo-stopping violence. Think of it like the real sounds of the universe- the kotodama of a calming presence and a voice of reason in the midst of anarchy.
Or in another vien-becoming another sort of Martial art profesional ...beside being able to beat people up.
Cheers
Dan
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:13 AM   #27
John Matsushima
 
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Don't judge,
don't attack
be compassionate
don't be defensive
don't be aggresive
don't strive to win
don't seek to manipulate or control
don't think of the other as your enemy, even though they oppose you
be open and inviting
have an open heart

These are aiki principles which i think apply well in turning an "argument' into a "discussion".

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
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Old 04-12-2009, 06:13 AM   #28
rob higgins
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Re: Verbal Aikido

blend,don,t give energy to an argument its like oxygen to a fire
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:35 PM   #29
tlk52
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Re: Verbal Aikido

a true story of verbal aikido, reacting in a way that changes the whole situation.. this happened many years ago to a very clever friend of mine that is now very high ranked but was then @ nidan.

he was walking on the street in NYC when a mugger put a knife to his throat. he entered slightly to the side while and said "oh no, the guy you're for is down there (while pointing), when the guy glanced in the direction that he was pointing, he walked off in the opposite direction, leaving the guy standing confused with the knife

Last edited by tlk52 : 06-12-2009 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:53 PM   #30
Janet Rosen
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
Toby Kasavan wrote: View Post
he was walking on the street in NYC when a mugger put a knife to his throat. he entered slightly to the side while and said "oh no, the guy you're for is down there (while pointing), when the guy glanced in the direction that he was pointing, he walked off in the opposite direction, leaving the guy standing confused with the knife
oh man that is SUCH a New York thing to do :-)

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:05 AM   #31
aikilouis
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Re: Verbal Aikido

"These are not the droids you are looking for."

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Old 06-17-2009, 01:24 PM   #32
Taj Mikel
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
IMHO, enter and blend (listen first), keep your own center (don't take it personally), connect to their center (see their positive intent), and extend ki (your own positive intention).
Very well put, I can't agree much more.

In my situations where verbal harmony can be considered, I usually:

1. Determine Maai (where each individual is "coming from", or their "stance"). In doing this, I usually become aware of the other individual's center, intentions, moods, etc..

2. Find a commonality between the two stances (blending). This can sometimes be very difficult, especially on the fly, and that blended harmony may not always be what is considered externally as "peaceful". Similar to an Aikidoka blending with the movement of an agressor, to remove them both from harm, it may require/result in some form of manifested conflict, ie; bodies colliding to an extent, or, in a verbal situation, concepts carried by words may collide.

3. Apply the most efficient technique (in this case, words and tone) to manifest the commonality, and thereby avoid conflict. This involves, IMO, empathy and love (intentional understanding, designed to create unity in some form between the two entities)

That's all sort of vague, as the concept can get pretty complex. But basically, analyze maai, enter then blend, and in so doing redirect the motion/intent of the agressor into a peaceful form.

Make sense? Hope so

-Ty A. Knight
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:27 PM   #33
Taj Mikel
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote: View Post
Don't judge,
don't attack
be compassionate
don't be defensive
don't be aggresive
don't strive to win
don't seek to manipulate or control
don't think of the other as your enemy, even though they oppose you
be open and inviting
have an open heart

These are aiki principles which i think apply well in turning an "argument' into a "discussion".
Dude, wickedly stated, thanks

-Ty A. Knight
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:35 PM   #34
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Has anyone just tried smiling and being nice? Works for me most of the time. It's harder on the internet though...

Best,
Ron (look who's talking...)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:39 PM   #35
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Very nice. Talk about mis-direction...but what ever possessed him to let a guy with a knife get that close to his throat! [I know, stuff happens!]

B,
R
Quote:
Toby Kasavan wrote: View Post
he was walking on the street in NYC when a mugger put a knife to his throat. he entered slightly to the side while and said "oh no, the guy you're for is down there (while pointing), when the guy glanced in the direction that he was pointing, he walked off in the opposite direction, leaving the guy standing confused with the knife

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-17-2009, 04:45 PM   #36
SeiserL
 
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Has anyone just tried smiling and being nice? Works for me most of the time. It's harder on the internet though...
Humility, humor, and humanness.
Impossible on the internet. No one see the nonverbals.

There's a nod of acknowledgement that people can give to say there is no threat here. Its sorta a simply eye contact, smile, nod, and look away without breaking stride.

In training I find if I don't take an offensive or defensive stance, no one attacks me. There's no "go". Of course some of my friends know me and attack anyway. Same has work in other contexts as well.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:15 PM   #37
RED
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Verbal Aikido = Dale Carnegie: How to Win Friends and Influence People.

lol
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Old 07-31-2009, 10:30 PM   #38
Suru
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Re: Verbal Aikido

At night, I left a sketchy gas station store with a six pack. On the five-yard journey to my car, a guy was lurking next to the ice boxes and told me to give him a beer. I laughed at him to send an only partially true message that I wasn't scared of him. I got in my car and drove away. Maybe I brought him out of his sphere of strength and into my own. Then I did something we're not taught often enough in Aikido: I evaded, the opposite of entering, by choosing a different convenience store from then on.

Drew
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:17 PM   #39
d2l
 
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
John Matsushima wrote: View Post
I think this way especially when I have discussions with my wife. I try never to attack, and I know if I try to fight with her, no matter what the outcome, I will lose in the end. I have learned that there is no such thing as "winning" when it comes to arguing with someone you love. Therefore, I don't use any strategy, I have no intention of defeating her, and yet I am not just passively agreeing with her just to make peace. Even though she may attack me or use sharp words, I still can't look at her as my enemy. On the rare occasion that I am actually right about something, I know that I still must use all my power not to hurt her. Mutual prosperity is the way.
I really like how John summed it up. Sounds pretty time on target to me.
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Old 08-02-2009, 06:15 PM   #40
RED
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote: View Post
At night, I left a sketchy gas station store with a six pack. On the five-yard journey to my car, a guy was lurking next to the ice boxes and told me to give him a beer. I laughed at him to send an only partially true message that I wasn't scared of him. I got in my car and drove away. Maybe I brought him out of his sphere of strength and into my own. Then I did something we're not taught often enough in Aikido: I evaded, the opposite of entering, by choosing a different convenience store from then on.

Drew
Agreed. The best way to disarm a fight is to avoid it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:07 PM   #41
Lucky L
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Hello!
Indeed, what about managing verbal attacks (accusations, cynical criticsm, blame etc.) in everyday life? Well here's a book that uses the philosophy of Aikido to manage quickly and easily. http://www.amazon.com/Verbal-Aikido-.../dp/1478198079
I hope it helps!
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:33 PM   #42
Sojourner
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Re: Verbal Aikido

One thing that I have learned via Aikido is that if someone is launching a verbal attack, simply initially doing nothing at all works well. Remember the person is looking for a reaction and Aikido teaches me that I control my reaction, not my assailant. By letting them go, they often simply run out of steam or seeing that they have not got a reaction, go on to say something that incriminates themselves or makes them look stupid and its game over. I leave the situation but without their negative energy which they have to themselves.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:30 PM   #43
sakumeikan
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Re: Verbal Aikido

Quote:
Carol Shifflett wrote: View Post
For actual pearls, I suggest looking over material by Professor Emeritus of Linguistics, Suzette Elgin. You can find excerpts of several of her books online at www.adrr.com/aa/excerpts.html.

For Randy and Emergency Medicine folk, see http://www.adrr.com/aa/new.htm which includes a brilliant presentation of "The Aunt Grace Syndrome."

Elgin wrote an essay on "The Martial Art of Verbal Self-Defense" in "Aikido Exercises for Teaching and Training." Here's an excerpt.

All the stuff we always thought was just random stuff coming at us actually has a very organized, identifiable pattern. Response?

-- Identify the attack via Satir Modes (Blaming, Placating, Distracting, or Computer)

-- Realize that what you feed will grow.

Alex, I think your bus experience was a brilliant example of Miller's Law -- Let's assume that it's True that the guy was going to knock out the bus driver. What situation would this be true of? What would be the result?

I first saw Elgin's books in the late 80's and I can say that they provided brilliant tools for dealing with an abusive fellow who suddenly became amazingly UNscary. It was like watching a balloon deflate. Tools per Elgin were:

-- Recognizing the attack: "Ah! He's using Blaming mode." Ah! He's switched to Distractor Mode!" and

-- Realizing how to NOT feed it, how to recognize my actual goal, and how to control the situation. Verbal Aikido.

For how NOT to do it, I suggest you rent "Tatie Danielle" a French "comedy" in which a truly horrible old woman (who does "not fit your image of an attacker. . . a frail elderly relative, or someone who is ill") who terrorizes her kindly family until she's done in by the irimi of a no-nonsense caretaker. Reminds me of Ellis Amdur's wonderful story in (I think) "Dueling With O'Sensei" in which, faced with a violent opponent they tenkan tenkan tenkan but the apartment manager slices through all that and does a very appropriate and very effective irimi. BLAM!!! Meet Mat.

This is not a trivial issue. Both Elgin and Gavin de Becker ("Gift of Fear") are very clear on this point: Verbal violence is the PRELUDE to physical violence. It may even serve as an "interview," a testing of the waters, to gauge just how successful actual physical violence might be, in muggings, in domestic violence, or as Hirigoyen puts it, in "Stalking the Soul."

Here's how to recognize it for what it is, and how to deal with it.
And, as O-Sensei said, "The Way of the Warrior is to stop trouble before it starts."

Cheers!
Carol Shifflett
Dear Carol,
Read these tomes by all means , then give the person a good kick in the crotch. Verbal stuff is ok, but no good if the other person thinks you patter is garbage.Cheers, Joe.
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