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Old 01-30-2013, 04:44 PM   #1
Mert Gambito
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Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Aikido, as a form of physically interactive exercise, truly is unique among the martial arts. It's truly dance like in its cadence and movement, and really, far more interesting to watch, with a wider gamut of appreciation while doing so, than most martial arts. It's understandable why its aesthetics, and the many positive nuances of the collaboration between a given pair of training partners that generate them, attract so many people to the art.



I was always enthralled by this type of movement: in particular, Aikido's trademark re-directions of the uke -- often with the uke moving in large circles around nage or in concert with nage's tenkan. Entralled, that is, until the first time I took ukemi when sampling Aikido. Because jujutsu/aiki-jujutsu techniques largely motivate the uke to respond in a linear fashion and drop the uke with little fanfare (for example, compare Daito-ryu Ippon-Dori to Ikkyo), and that's what I'm used to and what generally is practical when dealing with varying levels of resistance in paired training, I found myself naturally peeling away from the nage vs. staying with him/her when taking ukemi. So, one has to consciously take steps in a wide circle to not come apart from the nage. After all, centrifugal force is what naturally occurs when an object is swung in an arc. I'd always understood that waza in modern Aikido require the uke to cooperate, which is true of doing waza in any Japanese martial art, but in most jujutsu there is relatively little footwork on the part of the uke once first contact occurs, so even the most cooperative practice doesn't require conscious stepping by the uke from that point forward in the technique.

However, since certain modern IP/IS adepts, e.g. Dan Harden, can motivate the uke, who's actively, fully resisting at the point(s) of contact, to involuntarily move with haste in one direction then be re-directed to involuntarily reverse his/her stepping into a wide arc, all the while maintaining a centripetal adhesion to the nage, I'm inclined to believe that Morihei Ueshiba and his well-regarded Daito-ryu contemporaries could do so as well.

Can the large, redirecting, circular movements of the uke in Aikido be accomplished without cooperative footwork by the uke or without the IP/IS body skills developed through methods of training advocated by those like Dan and Ark? If so, how? If you feel Morihei Ueshiba had something else in play to deal with the dojo-stormers of the early 20th century, then please feel free to offer up your thoughts.

For what it's worth, I can't adequately explain how fure-aiki cancels the uke's resistive force while simultaneously imparting what appears to be centripetal force: the overly simplified answer that will perturb the skeptics is that the tangental responses that consciously and unconsciously address the uke's force and positioning allow both conditions to occur. What I do know is, I've been the uke who's experienced it, and have peeled myself off the mat a number of times marveling that it's possible.

In a way, I'm saying that being able to pull off Aikido waza against a resisting uke requires a degree of competency with aiki that goes beyond what's typically needed in other arts, because of the degree to which the uke must be moved within the course of a given technique.

My admiration for Aikido is at an all-time high.

Mert
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:42 AM   #2
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Hi Mert, great post. I think that you'll find that it's actually easier to move people - move them a lot - all over the place - than it is to stop them dead in their tracks. I think much of what we have/had in mind in terms of martial arts come from, initially, only what you can see with our limited perception. But there's also the other matter of the objective of many of the other arts you might be referring to. Especially the Japanese variations.

Karate (I know there are many kinds, and I'm primarily talking about the Japanese and American styles), for example, employs blocks - blocks intended to stop and break. And punches - punches intended to stop and crush. They built their bodies into armor. But even Oyama - who could punch bulls out - had calcified his fingers and most of his hands together from banging on all kinds of stuff in his training. And in his book - that came out years ago - he told people not to do it anymore. It just wasn't worth it. We live in a different kind of society now.

Anyone who studies any kind of "self defense" needs to seriously read this. It's an excellent article on the kind of legal "defense" people are going to need if they use "self defense."
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...d.php?t=112913

I'm not saying that a lot of these types of karates are not effective for knocking the living daylights out of someone. And that's the problem. Many people who study, even for years and years, have those types of actions so wired into their systems, that their options are severely limited.

Keep in mind that karate was born in Okinawa - where they had all their stuff confiscated - so that had to use what they had. And it's brutal. Effective, yes. Brutally effective.

The Chinese arts, in many cases, focus more on blending and redirecting. Aikido is so Chinese-based it's not even funny.

The Chinese arts, and many originating in India, came from more of the classes of priests and monks. Karate originated for the scrappy common people. Let's take this rice grinder and figure out some ways to waste people. Hey, who'd blame them. It was a tough spot.

So, back to IP/IS that you were addressing. So, you get these guys in China, called Taoists, and they were the scientists of the day. In fact, they still are. They have a map they use - the I Ching. And it allows them to have an overview into a lot of stuff, like change, and dynamics, and motion, etc.. And they're able to apply all that on many different level and in many different disciplines. Any commoner can get a bunch of wood and knock out a hut, but it takes some serious engineering and an understanding of physics on a very different level to put together more advanced structures and undertakings.

Come to find, that with more of a cosmological overview, it turns out, that it's actually a lot easier to decouple a body in motion, and then change its direction, than it is to - boom - stop it cold. So, this is where you begin to find a much more elegant architecture and approach to, among other things, martial arts.

I can tell you, that especially on the American level, I've seen a lot of karate pollute aikido. And by that, I mean that many who training aikido - and even high-level senseis - didn't really get enough of the right stuff, and as people trained aikido in the US, they also had exposure to karate - which influenced their movements. I can see it all the time, in the opening angles, the wide (and dangerous - to themselves) irimi movements. You'll often see people in aikido - especially in the US - stepping at an angle to uke that's on the order of 30-degrees or so. That's fine if it's karate, and you're going to waste the uke (who still has their balance, by the way.) But for aikido, it's very bad. Worse than bad. It's just -- can we say stupid. At least if they were karateka they've have the training to punch uke out. But they don't. And then they think their going to apply some shihonage or gote-keishi. Please. They'd already be KO'ed.

Karate very often works from a more medium distance. And that's the problem mixing karate's movements into aikido. Now, aikido - with aiki - is up close and personal. And it's works in more dimensions than just 3D. In 3D, there's only so much room, and only so many things, and people fight themselves and each other competing for it. Aiki introduces other dimensions. 4D...5D... Ueshiba basically said you've got to be able to move in and out of these dimensions at will. From known places, to hidden places, to divine places, and back...and forth...

One of the "hidden" doors is at about 10-degrees off the line of attack. And if you see anyone doing good aikido, they'll use that one all the time. And it's also not a whole step in - it's a half step. Aiki irimi is in between uke's steps, in between uke's breath, and in between the space where uke thinks you are as he commits his attack.

I've spent a lot of time going pretty full on with lots of players from lots of arts. Here's a little story: I was hanging out with a very high level karate renshi. Now, if I was in a real battle, I'd want this guy with me. He's the kind of person who could clear out a whole bar room full of people, leaving them all dead and maimed. But, this is the 21st century and we live in a different kind of society. So, we'd been drinking and had on a nice buzz. We'd even trained like that before. One time he just clocked me in the chest, and my feet went straight in the air, and I ukemi'ed right on to the concrete driveway before I even knew what had happened. I was totally fine. It verified my training.

So, we've got our drunk on, and I'm sitting in a chair. He comes over and puts his hands around my neck and says,"Whatchoo gonna' do?" I knew if I did anything at all, I'd escalate something. And he clearly had an advantage at that point. My body and intuition decided I wasn't going to do anything at all. Complete non-resistance. He started leaning more into me, and I gave him nothing. All of the sudden, he starts falling, and then trying to catch his balance, he falls backwards into a chair. Then he starts moaning. I asked him if he was alright. He said, "No, I'm not alright." He'd fallen and broken a chair and part of the chair was sticking in his butt. Anyway, he ended up OK, but a nice bruise on his ass. He's never messed with me after that.

The point being. This is a guy who could totally kick my ass - if I fought him. But I didn't. And what I did through total non-resistance - was allow him to kick his own ass. On my end, when he grabbed me, my spirit and intent just went to a higher more divine level. I did it out of...something...training...knowing it was the safe place to go. Next thing I know, he's on his ass and hurt.

One of the aspects of IS is spending enough time in the storm to know and trust - through first-hand experience - that it's safer to be in the eye - where there's stillness and power and peace.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 02-11-2013 at 08:53 AM.

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:24 PM   #3
Mert Gambito
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Hi Dan,

I really hadn't considered arts typically considered to be hard/external styles, e.g. karate, when I wrote the opening post. Specifically, I was thinking of Daito-ryu and Hakkoryu, which don't stop people in their tracks so much as use aiki to dispatch the uke in a more linear fashion, relative to most of what you see in modern aikido.

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote:
So, we've got our drunk on, and I'm sitting in a chair. He comes over and puts his hands around my neck and says,"Whatchoo gonna' do?" I knew if I did anything at all, I'd escalate something. And he clearly had an advantage at that point. My body and intuition decided I wasn't going to do anything at all. Complete non-resistance. He started leaning more into me, and I gave him nothing. All of the sudden, he starts falling, and then trying to catch his balance, he falls backwards into a chair.
I'm not sure if you would characterize the non-resistance you employed as "fure-aiki" (which, in the context of the original post, is a body skill and conditioning developed through six directions and spiraling training), but that is a scenario in which it would come in handy, and in which the choker would ideally perceive no resistance by the would-be victim.

Mert
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:15 AM   #4
Michael Douglas
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
Mert Gambito wrote: View Post
In a way, I'm saying that being able to pull off Aikido waza against a resisting uke requires a degree of competency with aiki that goes beyond what's typically needed in other arts, ...
Yes, it seems so.

Is this not a terribly BAD thing?
Are there videos of this being achieved (by Aikidoka?) or are there only stories?
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:51 AM   #5
Mert Gambito
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

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Yes, it seems so.

Is this not a terribly BAD thing?
Are there videos of this being achieved (by Aikidoka?) or are there only stories?
Yeah, it's wonderful. But that's the thing, Michael. I don't know any aikidoka who can do it. Fortunately, there will be several in the future who will be able to do so.

Mert
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:20 AM   #6
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Guys, here's a quicky video shot several years ago. The goal was to punch each other in the mouth. It doesn't look like much - which can be deceptive - because neither of us was giving the other person anything to hit. The guy on the left has been training most of his life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn6IDDbC3-Y

At 1:08 I have two guys grab me, and show the difference between trying to move while I'm loaded with energy - using muscle, and then effortlessly moving after I discharge the energy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XkIoEKLdNI

This isn't that big of a deal. People seem to want to see something that looks huge and dramatic, but when it doesn't look like much, they think, "Oh, that's nothing." And they're right. There's nothing to it. And that's exactly the point. I'm not doing anything to anyone.

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Old 02-18-2013, 03:49 AM   #7
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

In fact, looking at 1:08 on that video.. look at the structure that's created after they grab me. We're all loaded up with energy - we're coupled together into a single structure. I can't move because I've become a structure that's over 600lbs and over 8' wide, 6' tall, and about 2-3' deep.

When I discharge and drain the energy - through my feet and hands - by decoupling from the big structure, I am then free to move myself. And the energy that was held in both of the guys drains out through my feet and hands. That's me creating centrifugal force. Now look at 1:22 when they start moving - that's centripetal force.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 02-18-2013 at 04:02 AM.

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Old 02-18-2013, 05:16 AM   #8
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Mert, there's a lot going on in this video. It's reversing nikyo. Someone wants to apply nikyo on uke. Uke then is on the outside of the sphere and under centripetal force from nage. But in this case, uke changes something... He flips the polarity - changes the phase - of the power. From there, uke becomes the core - and creates centrifugal force and nage is moved through centripetal force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM0LzKkTIUA

The interesting part is - what is that switch - that reversal? What changes the phase, the polarity?

Last edited by Dan Richards : 02-18-2013 at 05:19 AM.

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"Budo must always reflect its surroundings. If it isn't newer and stronger, it isn't valid." - Shoji Nishio
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #9
hughrbeyer
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

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Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
Quote:
In a way, I'm saying that being able to pull off Aikido waza against a resisting uke requires a degree of competency with aiki that goes beyond what's typically needed in other arts, ...
Yes, it seems so.

Is this not a terribly BAD thing?
Are there videos of this being achieved (by Aikidoka?) or are there only stories?
It's only a bad thing if you don't care about developing aiki.

If you want to train people to develop aiki, what better way to do it than focus your art on exactly those techniques that can't be done effectively without aiki? Because no one would focus their whole practice on only working with compliant ukes, would they?

Oh, wait...

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:36 PM   #10
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
Mert, there's a lot going on in this video. It's reversing nikyo. Someone wants to apply nikyo on uke. Uke then is on the outside of the sphere and under centripetal force from nage. But in this case, uke changes something... He flips the polarity - changes the phase - of the power. From there, uke becomes the core - and creates centrifugal force and nage is moved through centripetal force.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM0LzKkTIUA

The interesting part is - what is that switch - that reversal? What changes the phase, the polarity?
Dan
In looking at this video some comments........
  • In the uke-nage relationship illustrated here the uke has the mechanical advantage. Why would anyone want to apply nikyo up hill? against a straight arm?
  • Nage has elbow up and shoulder up….mechanical disadvantage…aside from energy flows….
  • For me as nage….if nikyo presents itself as part of the flow of things….I want mechanical advantage, I want to be above uke's hand, wrist, elbow and shoulder, not below them.
  • As uke being pinned I would rather rotate my hand/wrist/arm outward, clockwise if it is my right arm. Rotating clockwise in this case brings my pinned hand/wrist free of the torque being applied, brings my elbow into my body all the while extending and winding outward along a line from left to right while winding down on the opposite side left to right. Of course you have heard this before

Gary
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:03 AM   #11
sakumeikan
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Dan
In looking at this video some comments........
  • In the uke-nage relationship illustrated here the uke has the mechanical advantage. Why would anyone want to apply nikyo up hill? against a straight arm?
  • Nage has elbow up and shoulder up….mechanical disadvantage…aside from energy flows….
  • For me as nage….if nikyo presents itself as part of the flow of things….I want mechanical advantage, I want to be above uke's hand, wrist, elbow and shoulder, not below them.
  • As uke being pinned I would rather rotate my hand/wrist/arm outward, clockwise if it is my right arm. Rotating clockwise in this case brings my pinned hand/wrist free of the torque being applied, brings my elbow into my body all the while extending and winding outward along a line from left to right while winding down on the opposite side left to right. Of course you have heard this before

Gary
Dear Gary,
Forget all the stuff about Energy Flow, the fact is that the two guys applying the waza
are not too conversant with the waza. There are serious flaws in their postures and the way they do the technique.Elbows are kept open , shoulders kept up as well,As you say the straight arm of Uke
is not conducive to nikkayo, I consider the nikkayo as shown in the vid would be virtually ineffective,
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:55 AM   #12
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

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Dan Richards wrote: View Post
The interesting part is - what is that switch - that reversal? What changes the phase, the polarity?
The brainwashing?

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Old 02-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #13
Mert Gambito
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Dan,

This is the type of stuff to which I'm referring: http://youtu.be/wlmAoQ5HYTk?t=2m33s. In a couple of those techniques, looks like the uke takes 10 or more steps, after initial contact with the nage.

Mert
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:13 AM   #14
Cliff Judge
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
Mert Gambito wrote: View Post
Can the large, redirecting, circular movements of the uke in Aikido be accomplished without cooperative footwork by the uke or without the IP/IS body skills developed through methods of training advocated by those like Dan and Ark? If so, how? If you feel Morihei Ueshiba had something else in play to deal with the dojo-stormers of the early 20th century, then please feel free to offer up your thoughts.
I just spent the weekend training with Ikeda Sensei and I am chewing on a question much like this.

What I can tell you for sure, though I cannot do it very well, is that you can use the IP part of Aiki to break your partner's balance in such a way that they do not tense up or ground themselves instinctively. This makes them easy to move with the external movement of your body.

I am not sure if you can use only internal power to make a classic Aikido waza happen. If you could, would it look the same or very different? I can't even do a smooth transition between kuzushi and technique right now. It takes me minutes of intense focus with an attentive partner to even get a little bit of tipping over, then as I activate my body the Aiki seems to evaporate.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:31 AM   #15
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Mert, if you just showed me a video of that man doing aikido, I'd say he was around 2nd kyu. And the shihonage he does at 2:45 would fail him for even a 3th kyu test in a dojo with exacting standards.

I just watched a couple of videos - what little there is - with Mitsuteru Ueshiba (Waka-sensei).

I mean, honestly, these guys remind of old tribute bands who tour, with maybe one or two original members, under the guise and name of the original band. Or imagine the Beatles grandkids touring around as the Beatles.

Meanwhile, some real leading edge akidoka, like Tissier, who's getting his balls busted by the agreements between the French government and Aikikai, are hindered in their own development, and more importantly what they could give to others.

I mean - the average person in the park in China is doing taichi for free, and at a higher quality than the average aikidoist is - all while paying dues and pledging allegiance and loyalty.

Meanwhile, people open dojos with the blessings of Aikikai and set themselves up as McShoguns. And everyone's got their thumbs pressed down on the one below them. The top-down hierarchy is getting mighty weighty. And we can see it in a decline in quality as well as drawn-out, or even stalled, graduations.

The more people communicate, open up, and truly develop, the realization that the emperor has no clothes is going to dawn brightly. As we move forward into the next ten years or so, things are going to get interesting. And probably a lot more free and fun, too.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 02-19-2013 at 09:33 AM.

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Old 02-19-2013, 11:16 AM   #16
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

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Mert, if you just showed me a video of that man doing aikido, I'd say he was around 2nd kyu. And the shihonage he does at 2:45 would fail him for even a 3th kyu test in a dojo with exacting standards.

I just watched a couple of videos - what little there is - with Mitsuteru Ueshiba (Waka-sensei).

I mean, honestly, these guys remind of old tribute bands who tour, with maybe one or two original members, under the guise and name of the original band. Or imagine the Beatles grandkids touring around as the Beatles.

Meanwhile, some real leading edge akidoka, like Tissier, who's getting his balls busted by the agreements between the French government and Aikikai, are hindered in their own development, and more importantly what they could give to others.

I mean - the average person in the park in China is doing taichi for free, and at a higher quality than the average aikidoist is - all while paying dues and pledging allegiance and loyalty.

Meanwhile, people open dojos with the blessings of Aikikai and set themselves up as McShoguns. And everyone's got their thumbs pressed down on the one below them. The top-down hierarchy is getting mighty weighty. And we can see it in a decline in quality as well as drawn-out, or even stalled, graduations.

The more people communicate, open up, and truly develop, the realization that the emperor has no clothes is going to dawn brightly. As we move forward into the next ten years or so, things are going to get interesting. And probably a lot more free and fun, too.
Dear Dan,
Tell me Dan , have you ever seen the Doshu /his Ukes? You say they remind you of an old tribute band. I consider this view is in bad taste.
As far as Mc Dojos are concerned /or Mc Shoguns you always get these types of things taking place all over.Do you think Doshu supports or promotes these places and people?
As far as France is concerned the politics of Aikido has been turbulent there for decades.I hardly think the current Doshu /Aikikai officials have sole responsibility for this.Are you saying that Mr Tissier is unable to transmit Aikido to the masses due to pressure from the Aikikai or what?
cheers, Joe.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:53 PM   #17
Michael Douglas
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

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...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM0LzKkTIUA

The interesting part is - what is that switch - that reversal? What changes the phase, the polarity?
Listen to the video. With your ears ;
1st guy (on the right) pretends to apply Nikkyo to an almost straight arm, then flops himself onto the mat ... then ... amazingly ... SLAPS the mat, ages after he lands. What's that about?! Muppet.
These guys are the reason folk disparage Aikido as an ineffective MA : THESE GUYS!
This isn't good and it leads to all sorts of delusions and all of that gets right in the way of effective training.
(They should've let the tall guy start pushing, then crank on the straight armbar he's just delivered to them... but that's I'm sure another topic entirely.)
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:52 PM   #18
Dan Richards
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Michael, do you have any idea of who Corky Quackenbush is? He's the tall guy in the video. He's quite capable of taking care of not only himself, but the other guy, too. And all while just hanging out and being himself in his own, natural energy - rather than resorting to exotic snake-karatesize-jukickbuttjitsu posturings.

Do you think that aikido videos should fill the role of being advertisements for people who want to learn to kick some ass? Or maybe for people who might think that there could be another way? Or perhaps as supplemental training for those already training?
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Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 02-19-2013 at 01:55 PM.

Dan Richards - Aiki Research

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Old 02-19-2013, 03:21 PM   #19
Mert Gambito
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
nikkyo
With or without IP/IS, the nage should be able to implement it without using both hands/arms (ditto regarding any of the other common wristlocks), in either variation of the technique shown in the video, and against a bent or straight arm.

Back to the main topic at hand. . . .

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
I just spent the weekend training with Ikeda Sensei and I am chewing on a question much like this.

What I can tell you for sure, though I cannot do it very well, is that you can use the IP part of Aiki to break your partner's balance in such a way that they do not tense up or ground themselves instinctively. This makes them easy to move with the external movement of your body.
Yes, I've experienced what you mean. The problem is, once the IP "carries the (contact) point" (Dan Harden parlance), external movement can be used to move the uke, but doing so instead of continuing to use fure-aiki causes the uke to exit the orbit after a couple steps, and/or the carrying to go dead.

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote:
I am not sure if you can use only internal power to make a classic Aikido waza happen. If you could, would it look the same or very different? I can't even do a smooth transition between kuzushi and technique right now. It takes me minutes of intense focus with an attentive partner to even get a little bit of tipping over, then as I activate my body the Aiki seems to evaporate.
Understood. Can relate. Seeds planted for a conversations to be revisited a few years from now. . . .

I wouldn't expect someone adept at IP/IS to get an uke who is not choreographing the ukemi to time and again produce cookie-cutter reactions. But I'd think someone adept could consistently induce that kind of movement to set up a logical finish within the physical lexicon of the art, as presented by the ukemi in that given instance.

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote:
Mert, if you just showed me a video of that man doing aikido, I'd say he was around 2nd kyu. And the shihonage he does at 2:45 would fail him for even a 3th kyu test in a dojo with exacting standards. . . .
Well, the idea of citing that particular video clip wasn't to point it out as bad technique per se, but rather to use it as an example of what is de rigueur for the type of grandiose moving-around of the uke that's iconic of the art today. Again, the cool thing is, it is possible to do this without choreographed ukemi, though few people can do it, and I'm yet to personally experience it from someone within aikido. (Caveat: Even then, IMO it's for the purposes of demonstrating skill, vs. for the sake of being pragmatic -- similar to appreciating speed metal, but preferring bread-and-butter blues.)

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote:
As we move forward into the next ten years or so, things are going to get interesting. And probably a lot more free and fun, too.
Yes, absolutely! The IP/IS methodologies during the past few years that have been posited here will all have been proven, debunked or simply filed away during the next decade. It will be entertaining to revisit all these IP/IS discussions and debates at that time to see who was trading in real substance vs. smoke and mirrors. . . .

Last edited by Mert Gambito : 02-19-2013 at 03:25 PM.

Mert
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:46 AM   #20
Michael Douglas
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

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Dan Richards wrote: View Post
Michael, do you have any idea of who Corky Quackenbush is?
No idea at all, no.

If that's him in the linked video then I have to say what he's doing there is just some awful crummy stuff.
It takes YEARS of delusion to get to that standard.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:18 AM   #21
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Nikkyo is not evil. The way these guys are practicing it it looks ineffective...but not evil.

Nikkyo is a way to learn about pain and injury and submission and relaxing into effective technique.

The way Nikkyo is being practiced in this video most people could just take their hands out of the grip...a technique to neutralize it is not needed.

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Old 02-20-2013, 09:19 AM   #22
Gary David
 
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Re: Aikido IP/IS: Advanced Expositions in Centripetal Force

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Nikkyo is not evil. The way these guys are practicing it it looks ineffective...but not evil.

Nikkyo is a way to learn about pain and injury and submission and relaxing into effective technique.

The way Nikkyo is being practiced in this video most people could just take their hands out of the grip...a technique to neutralize it is not needed.
Mary
The use by me when practicing this technique, not one I think would present itself much in an actual situations, is as a means to decouple the uke from the ground, to float them, to rock them on to their heels.........when I do this one I am working the uke's feet....intention down the arm,shoulder...through the back and to uke's feet.........
Gary
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