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Old 02-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #26
Chris Li
 
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Which is what I said, earlier, regarding Yi-Chi-Li (but I seem to be under the Curse of Apollo... ). Yi (Shin) drives Chi (Ki)... which drives the body and the outward expression of physical power and waza. Kokyu assists in the creation of spherical force ("peng") by providing a little boost to the change in atmospheric pressure in body cavities, until the individual is able to use other means to create the structural force by other means (manipulating internal tissues instead of depending on kokyu).
The three internal harmonies - I notice that Yi and Shin are a little mixed here. In Chinese and Japanese it goes:

Chinese - 心与意合,意与气合,气与力合
Japanese - 心と意の合・意と気の合・気と力の合

Hope that makes it through...

Anyway, "shin" is "xin" - heart or mind, and "yi" is the intent part.

Best,

Chris

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Old 02-05-2013, 02:25 PM   #27
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
What is peking duck then???
"It's a duck." ?
(Sorry, probably not as funny as it sounded to the audience in my head...that was your tag line wasn't it?)

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:45 PM   #28
Chris Li
 
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Bernd Lehnen wrote: View Post
Hello Ron,
I’m absolutely “genki” with what you say.

When I turn on my Japanese mood, there isn’t any more this clear distinction between mind and body. It’s then more “one in the other and not without”.
Phi’s mindless energy, which is also in a rice corn, in my western mood I would call vitality or life-force. And, in fact, your pronounced “and” in “mind and body” lead me to the western-minded-idea to name this “and” an “interface of vitality” as a substitute for ki.

In my western mood I try to extend or expand my conscious awareness all over my body and feel everything. I try to think my body into moving and that’s enough work, for sure.

Crazy, isn’t it.

Would be interesting to see Chris Li’s point of view.
Take care

Bernd
I'm not sure what you're asking about, but the mind/intent/ki/strength division is an old Chinese standard - the three internal harmonies, not really a western conception...

I'll add this comment on Ron's, since it was kind of connected:

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote:
Hugh, Cady, Mary E, Jonathan, Bernd, Phi and I have all expressed ideas about how intent and ki are related/differentiated in this thread. The metaphors, meanings and visualizations are unique to each individual. So what's the common denominator that weaves a continuous thread connecting us all? Aikido, pure and simple. Despite our varied viewpoints the fact that we can get on the mat and train together for our mutual benefit is Aikido's greatest asset.

Ron
It's nice that Aikido folks can get together and play - but that's hardly unique to Aikido, I've seen the same thing in many arts.

It's interesting that you say "for our mutual benefit", because that's the slogan of Judo - "Mutual Welfare and Benefit."!

Best,

Chris

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #29
Robert Cowham
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
If a bottle of beer is six inches in front of you on the table, your mind "sparks" a response that adjusts the amount of distance your hand needs to travel, plus the angle of approach and the structure to hold your arm where it needs to be to retrieve the bottle. If the bottle is across a 3'-wide table, your mind-intent adjusts accordingly so your body will structure/angle, power and move the arm the way it must to reach and lift that bottle.

Without an actual bottle of beer on the table, and without moving your arm, you can spark the same neural-firing that would drive the body action of reaching for a bottle of beer. In fact, you don't even have to picture an imaginary bottle in your mind; just spark the volition. When exercising intent, it actually is better not to have a "visual" picture in your mind's eye, because that's one more piece of clutter that obstructs pure thought and action.
No beer - no intent (unless there's wine as substitute)!

As to visual pictures, Pavlov's dogs have nothing on the saliva I can generate...
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:28 PM   #30
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
The three internal harmonies - I notice that Yi and Shin are a little mixed here. In Chinese and Japanese it goes:

Chinese - 心与意合,意与气合,气与力合
Japanese - 心と意の合・意と気の合・気と力の合

Hope that makes it through...

Anyway, "shin" is "xin" - heart or mind, and "yi" is the intent part.

Best,

Chris
Thanks, Chris. I'm working on my Japanese... not up to snuff yet.
I have also been saying that dantien = tanden and mingmen = meimon... is that an accurate translation?

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 02-05-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:33 PM   #31
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
I did notice that, and I apologize for not giving you props.
Not looking for props, just hoping that people are starting to see a connection linking what a number of different sources are all saying and referring to. Especially now that so many folks are starting to work on IS and aiki and we need a shared language and reference points.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:34 PM   #32
Chris Li
 
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Thanks, Chris. I'm working on my Japanese... not up to snuff yet.
I have also been saying that dantien = tanden and mingmen = meimon... is that an accurate translation?
Yup, though most Japanese just look at me funny when I talk about this stuff anyway.

Best,

Chris

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #33
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
And which is also what I said! I was hoping to get some confirmation from someone like Gleason sensei but didn't think it would happen in this thread. I don't know Cady or Gleason sensei, but apparently there is synchrony in our understandings.
ps Cady, "Chi" is "to eat" and "qi" is ki... well without tone markers things aren't specific, but that's one way to look at it. (I know it sounds smartassy but inaccuracies can snowball so it's easier to point it out even when it seems to not matter much)
Jonathan, my Mandarin is a little better than my Japanese.
"Chi" with a Beijing accent sounds more like "Chr"!

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 02-05-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:41 PM   #34
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Yup, though most Japanese just look at me funny when I talk about this stuff anyway.

Best,

Chris

Ten years from now, they might not look at you so funny when you talk about it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:44 PM   #35
Bernd Lehnen
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Re: Ki vs. Intent

Chris and Cady
Thanks, you made it through to me.

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Ten years from now, they might not look at you so funny when you talk about it.
Won't take this much time.

But Cady,
Mandarin with Beijing accent?? Melodious Beijing Hua?
How come, you got this?
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