Ukemi problems

Janet Rosen wrote: Too many of us HAVE had shoulder separations and had to deal with the chronic repercussions or have seen newbies not come back after incurring shoulder separations for me to endorse this, Joe

Dear Janet, Robin,
The point I was making to the person who was asking about unbendable was this, namely rather than get caught in a debate about acquiring said unbendable arm, just check out certain areas eg protecting the head, rolling like a ball , watching out for shoulders /collar bones etc.I agree that any injury is counter productive and can lead to complications eg surgery , latent arthritis, pain.Sorry if I misled you with my guidelines.No need for anybody to endorse any view I express on this forum.I am not running for President of the U.S.A just tossing in a few comments which you may or may not agree with.Cannot please everybody even part of the time. Hope you are well,Joe,

Joe Curran wrote: Dear Janet, Robin, The point I was making to the person who was asking about unbendable was this, namely rather than get caught in a debate about acquiring said unbendable arm, just check out certain areas eg protecting the head, rolling like a ball , watching out for shoulders /collar bones etc.I agree that any injury is counter productive and can lead to complications eg surgery , latent arthritis, pain.Sorry if I misled you with my guidelines.No need for anybody to endorse any view I express on this forum.I am not running for President of the U.S.A just tossing in a few comments which you may or may not agree with.Cannot please everybody even part of the time. Hope you are well,Joe,

Couldn't agree more. There are far more important things, and safety is paramount.

The (excellent) links by Robin show someone who is already unafraid of falling.

If someone is having trouble at the start they should be on the crash-mats, if available. I've seen more people leave a club and never come back through bad introductions to a breakfall/ukemi. For beginners it requires specific, constant supervision and control.

A sound lack of fear with falling enables a student to practice more freely.

However these comments don't take into account that learning to roll/fall hurts, tricking gravity/fate takes some skill and it doesn't come cheap.

Worth having though.

Mark Johnston wrote: The (excellent) links by Robin show someone who is already unafraid of falling. If someone is having trouble at the start they should be on the crash-mats, if available. I've seen more people leave a club and never come back through bad introductions to a breakfall/ukemi. For beginners it requires specific, constant supervision and control. A sound lack of fear with falling enables a student to practice more freely. However these comments don't take into account that learning to roll/fall hurts, tricking gravity/fate takes some skill and it doesn't come cheap. Worth having though.

Yes, the second link in particular shows someone who is already unafraid. I should have mentioned that I wouldn't attempt any of the later exercises until I had mastered the earlier one. Crash mat is a good idea to get over fear.

For rolling, I have found it's best to start total beginners very low, as has been said. Rolling from the knees progressing to rolling standing up but with the hips very low/hands on the ground and so on.

For breakfalls, the best practice seems to be a hip throw along the lines of koshi-nage with a high grade throwing as the beginners tend to thrash about a bit (or freeze). Lots of time to push them into the right shape as they drop.

There's a beauty in rolling that everyone can learn. There's always a couple of bits where it hurts.

You don't need the crashmats though - we never had them in any of the clubs I've trained in and I've seen lots of people learn to roll, including some older and/or nor very sporty/confident ones and even some with physical disabilities. As long as you start low (from your knees or from a sitting position for backward rolls) and have a (competent) teacher watch you and correct you in the beginning, you should be completely fine. I've never seen any accidents from ukemi training (and that's including breakfalls).

For the forward roll I find it quite important to place your palm or the side of your hand on the floor, not the back. If you put the back, it'll be a lot less stable - leading to wrist and/or shoulder injuries should you crash on it.

Crashmats also deform in an awkward and confusing way. I wouldn't recommend them.

Hey,

I've been practicing rolls for a while now, and i've become a lot better at rolls from with my left hand fowards except my right hand ones are still sloppy, though i'm left handed, not to mention i do fencing so my left side is slightly more confident, also i'm struggling at backwards rolls still can someone help?

You do NOT need to keep your eyes on the mat as you enter a roll. I guarantee you that it will neither steal your wallet nor run away. You need to tuck your head. Look back towards the wall opposite the one you are rolling toward.

Gabriel Walton wrote: ... i've had particular trouble with Forward and Backward Ukemi (i'm not sure of the correct names forgive me :L ) as whenever i lean foward on with my right arm foward when i go to roll my arm gives in and i faceplant the ground or the side of my back hits the mats, and i do the same thing with my backwards, i'm also left handed so i find performing ukemi fro this side unnatural (not to mention it hurts ) i'm not sure how to go about fixing this,could someone help me please??

If you do it at a faster speed and in a muddy field you will progress faster than on mats in your dojo.
You do have muddy fields around : your location says W.Midlands.
Also : don't let your arm buckle under you, get some vigour! Be the ball.
Left handed? Stop whingeing.

That's weird, I'm right-handed (very) and my left-hand rolls were easier for me. I'd like to think it's starting to even out, but certainly the right side took more work (and much more conscious thought).

Great replies particularly those suggesting you start from kneeling. You are new and need clear instructions on HOW to roll. When instructing teens I remind them that our 'monkey brains' are wired to send signals of panic when the brain gets signals of 'falling.' As you roll more from a low position your brain will adjust to the sensations and it will get better. Some people handle these conflicting neurological sensations better than others. Some Astronauts never get space sick...many do and they keep flying.

Easiest way to learn ukemi is to start from a kneeling position, 1 knee down and 1 knee up, and roll to the side that has the knee up. After gaining confidence you can do it from standing.

You can go even lower than that if you want... If you start with both knees down (toes up, kiza), one knee and shoulder pointed forward, tuck head down and towards back shoulder, use back hand for support as you lower your rolling shoulder all the way to the ground and place it on the mat, reach rolling arm under you, then push up with front leg to go over...

Hard to explain verbally but you can learn all the head tucking and diagonal contact across the back and rounding the body and the shape of a roll before you even get the rolling arm involved.

One thing I notice with newer students is them throwing themselves. Ukemi needs to be free flowing. When you ready to fall try and bring your shoulder down as close as possible to the mat before rolling.

Thanks for all the helpful guidance, I have noticed that my Ukemi are still inconsistent as I'm still finding it tough to stop myself from collapsing on my on when rolling, as well as Backwards Ukemi, though I have found that it is sometimes easier when your moving faster before rolling,.