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Old 01-02-2013, 06:55 PM   #101
Gary David
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
...........There are people out there who have seen Dan, and weren't blown away. Now do they want to go on public record saying something negative about someone for no real reason; that's another important question to ask.

Let's say Dan has a 90% seminar success rate. Thats a pretty good rate of people who like what he's doing to people who don't care for what he's doing. Out of those 10% who didn't like it, how many were just underwhelmed, but not upset, I would guess 5%. How many of the 5% who were upset, would actually make public note of it, maybe 1% or so, how many of that 1% use internet forums....

See what I'm saying here? People are more likely to talk positively about someone then negatively. So it's rare that someone is upset enough, or public enough to want to blast someone else that they've had a negative experience with, unless it's dramatic.
Chris
Another thought here is what hard work is involved with the solo training offered by Dan (and others) and how long it may well take to achieve a level of proficiency that provides useful results, results without thinking. Many will not take the time and will drop the practice if they don't see results the following week or so. Some will see the level effort needed to even get started and be underwhelmed..... It is easier to be underwhelmed than do the time.

Gary
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:56 PM   #102
DH
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
I think that the number of "views" a thread has had is a better measure of how controversial and/or active a thread is rather than how positive or negative that topic may be.

-- Jun
Good point
Aren't we seeing that as more and more budo-ka being actively interested then?
Why do they write in if they are not interested at all? How many who write have gone on to meet?
As a progression, I am intimately aware of so many teachers here, who debated with me vehemently who have become close friends, not only with me, but with other teachers they would never have met were it not for aikiweb.
This is all because of you Jun. And your efforts with aikiweb.

I know you hear from people who are upset, and I know you have been upset yourself on your own terms. I keep hoping you will continue to strive for us all. Aikiweb has made an impact that people will be talking about long after the web has gone to pasture to be replaced by some other venue.
"Where did you first meet?"
Oh...funny story. I met him on the web on what used to be forums it was called Aikiweb!"

Or...Remember aikiweb?"


In the fullness of time aikiweb may prove to be as critical to a dynamic shift happening in Aikido as Aikido Journal was.

Anyway...thank you for your efforts.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 01-02-2013 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #103
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Vantage points

Hello Ernesto,

Happy New Year!

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
Fair enough. (Of course, one can also point out the fact that a lot of threads have been dedicated to some of these very questions.) To sum up Hugh's points (a bit):
PAG. Well, yes. One of the continuing achievements of AikiWeb is that it is still a general aikido forum, with no specific rules laid down as to content and form, the content being Aikido, as generally understood, and the form being the obligation for mutual respect. One of the problems, however, is that, by comparison with face-to-face interaction, it is limited as a communication tool, but I think this imposes a greater obligation for users to be more careful about how they state what they state than would be necessary in face-to-face communication. For this reason, such a general forum needs constant and careful moderation.

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
- What did Ueshiba mean with "Aiki?"
Is it (as "the IP crowd" says) a specific body method, presuming to date back centuries and spanning cultures and countries? (If so, it's not unreasonable to ask for evidence -- Chris Li's blogs have done much to point this out).
PAG. This question leads to another question, of what you are going to accept as evidence, given the centuries, the cultures and the countries.

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
- Is it that AND is it also a reference to other things? (Ueshiba's "Aiki is love" comes to mind).
PAG. I think the answer to this will depend on answering another question, at least to some extent, which relates to Morihei Ueshiba's preferred style of communication. Given the particular nature of the Japanese language, especially the multiplicity of homonyms, and the great liking for metaphor and word-play of Onisaburo Deguchi, there is a strong possibility that Ueshiba also used word-play and homonyms and that this might make a great difference to how he is to be understood. I mean, for example, that metaphor, homonyms and word-play might well make a scientific or academic text (where the emphasis is on clarity) less easy to understand, especially for a general reader who is not a native speaker of Japanese.

I think that you and Merlijn might have encountered problems in translating Ellis Amdur's book into Dutch. Clearly, translation is a major boon for those who cannot read the original language, but translating a text can actually create as many problems as it is intended to solve. I am acquainted with the editor of Kodansha and I know exactly what he was looking for in the published translations of Morihei Ueshiba's discourses, done by John Stevens. He wanted a translation that was not inaccurate, but which was shorn, as much as possible, of technical apparatus and footnotes, and which was in a style that the ‘average reader' (meaning the people that marketing surveys have shown typically buy Kodansha publications) can read.

Though this is not directly connected with issues of translation so much as interpretation, have you ever read Peter Heath's The Philosopher's Alice or Martin Gardner's The Annotated Alice? Both are editions of the stories with extensive explanations and annotations. Heath, for example, goes through all the philosophical questions that Dodgson was concerned with and suggests that the idea that he wrote books for children is a popular myth. In the same vein, I can see someone in future producing The IP Morihei Ueshiba, with a translation specially geared to IP training. Later still, when IP ceases to be a fad, I can imagine a future translator saying, 'Well, Ueshiba might well have meant this, but he meant other things as well and a translation has to take this into account.'

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
- Can it be that this specific body method was not passed on "successfully" to the aikido world?
PAG. Well, assuming that it is a specific body method, it would certainly appear so, but again, this depends on other factors, such as the importance of "success" for those who are supposed to be doing the "passing on".

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
- If not a specific body, then how is Aiki defined and does this present a problem? (Aiki extensions comes to mind).
PAG. You assume here what we do in fact need to define it. I occasionally hear statements that aikido is indefinable and you have the added problem, alluded to above, that AIKI is a Japanese term that is usually left untranslated.

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
- If rephrased or adopted differently or maybe perhaps even historically incorrect, in what sense is this a problem for a discussion format such as Aikiweb?
PAG. Well, as I suggested earlier, a general discussion forum imposes certain communication constraints. In another thread the topic is the decline of online discussion forums and it seems that there is a general tendency for texting and blogs. Blogs allow the presentation of detailed information in a concentrated form, but without the complexity and academic paraphernalia (footnotes etc) of an academic text, and without the detailed discussion in a forum—as the information is being presented. I myself prefer columns, which are really long essays, but I am well aware that these make heavy demands on the reader.

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
- The skills, as been claimed by "the IP crowd", are presented as physically superior to nearly every method within "conventional" (some say Modern) Aikido. The IHTBF argument seems to be a bone of content for some people who wish to discuss, even question the existence of these skills. IOW can these skills, without actual exposure be discussed on Aikiweb?
PAG. The points you make, I think, are quite correct, but I also think that problems actually start at this point. Even with the IHTBF argument, there is still a need for a very careful analysis of what is actually happening, and in a common language, shorn of metaphor, homonymy and word-play. I think this is much more difficult for ‘intentional' concepts and actions than for ‘external' movements.

Quote:
Ernesto Lemke wrote: View Post
Some random questions….
PAG. In my opinion they are not particularly random. The questions are interconnected and the answers to one will directly influence the answers to others. Of course, this is not meant in any way as a criticism.

Best wishes,

PAG

P A Goldsbury
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:21 PM   #104
Gary David
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
...........
Happy New Year!

PAG. In my opinion they are not particularly random. The questions are interconnected and the answers to one will directly influence the answers to others. Of course, this is not meant in any way as a criticism.

Best wishes,

PAG
Peter
The questions about IP/IS to me are simple.........1) Does it work? 2) Is it usable? 3) Is my stuff more effective with it? 4) Is it trainable? 5) How do I get it? The answers to 1, 2, 3 & 4 are yes...and for me the answer to 5 brings up several names....one of which is Dan. The who, the where did it come, what countries.......all of that is an interesting study but is not the actual training.......
Gary
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #105
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Peter
The questions about IP/IS to me are simple.........1) Does it work? 2) Is it usable? 3) Is my stuff more effective with it? 4) Is it trainable? 5) How do I get it? The answers to 1, 2, 3 & 4 are yes...and for me the answer to 5 brings up several names....one of which is Dan. The who, the where did it come, what countries.......all of that is an interesting study but is not the actual training.......
Gary
My post was a specific response to Ernesto's. I do not think we disagree, do we?

PAG

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #106
Gary David
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
My post was a specific response to Ernesto's. I do not think we disagree, do we?

PAG
Not at all......for us simple folks it is to easy to get a headache with all the going back and forth....just cut to the chase...does it work and how do I get it?
Gary
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #107
Howard Popkin
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Re: Vantage points

I'm sure I'm going to get yelled at but this is my vantage point:

1) Takeda - O'Sensei - Unusual Power
2) Takeda - Kodo - Unusual Power
3) Takeda - Sagawa - Unusual Power

Common Thread - Daitoryu Aiki

Gozo Shioda - Unusual Power - from where?
Shirata - Unusual Power - from Where ?
Dan Harden - Unusual Power - from where ?

I'm not saying that there aren't other systems that possess unusual power, but in historical context of Aikido/Daitoryu, I find this to be true.

And please, don't question Dan's Daitoryu lineage. All it means is that you don't have enough information to back up what you say.

Happy New Year !

Howard
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:27 PM   #108
Cliff Judge
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Whether or not he choses to tell you about it or not has no effect on his solidity. In any case, there are plenty of us with solid and public lineages that are calling it "Aiki", so what's the problem?

Best,

Chris
You can define "strong" any way you like. But for me a "strong lineage" would be authentic, verifiable, and credible. If it's not fit for public discussion then it is what it is, but it's not strong.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:27 PM   #109
DH
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Not at all......for us simple folks it is to easy to get a headache with all the going back and forth....just cut to the chase...does it work and how do I get it?
Gary
I see both points or sides of that issue. We can no longer just look to individuals. At some point we need to recognize that this body technology is old...ancient...and is the foundation for all of the legends we have heard about. Otherwise we will continue to be victimized by poor teaching, and on a continual quest for yet another face to put on it...and that typically Asian.

Recognizing the richness and the context is intriguing and rewarding in itself. And in the end it helps is to understand an analogy that would forever have escaped our ability to...translate or absorb. Hence the budo scholars who didn't get it either.
Dan
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:33 PM   #110
DH
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
You can define "strong" any way you like. But for me a "strong lineage" would be authentic, verifiable, and credible. If it's not fit for public discussion then it is what it is, but it's not strong.
So dismiss me. Fine by me. I would even strongly encourage you to, Cliff. Stick with someone proven....by lineage.
After all Takeda Sokaku didn't have one either. Why he didn't even have a black belt!!
These things are important to a lot of people Cliff. Be careful out there.
Dan
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:42 PM   #111
Cliff Judge
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Ryan Schoelerman wrote: View Post
If I'm not mistaken in Koryu there is a culture where you never show someone else your Menkyo scrolls, its personal and private - Not saying Dan is a Menkyo holder or anything, I'm just talking to the etiquette that still exists in some forms of Budo and isn't meant for forum discussion. IMO
I have never heard of that of koryu generally. I could see it being a Daito ryu thing to go along with the factionalism and the inherited pathos of Aizu culture. But whatever, it's private knowledge. So that leads us to here, where we cannot stop wrestling with this material on the internet, but nobody can openly talk about where it comes from.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:48 PM   #112
Cliff Judge
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Re: Vantage points

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Howard Popkin wrote: View Post
And please, don't question Dan's Daitoryu lineage. All it means is that you don't have enough information to back up what you say.
Well, it seems to me that most questions do arise from a lack of knowledge, sir.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:49 PM   #113
Chris Li
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
You can define "strong" any way you like. But for me a "strong lineage" would be authentic, verifiable, and credible. If it's not fit for public discussion then it is what it is, but it's not strong.
I happen to know (as Howard mentioned) that it is indeed authentic, verifiable, and credible. It's also private - although Dan was never hesitant to discuss it in my hearing.

Notice that nobody's asked for verification of your lineage as qualification to put out your ideas.

Anyway, Dan mentioned that it doesn't matter, and he's absolutely right.

Best,

Chris

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:54 PM   #114
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Re: Vantage points

It's just been pointed out to me that in my attempt to come up with a nonsense-sounding Japanese ryu name up above, I managed to land on a phrase that might be taken as a reference to an actually existing school. Ack! My apologies to all, and please be assured I didn't intend any disrespect to any ryu there. Just my clumsiness with the language.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:01 PM   #115
Howard Popkin
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Re: Vantage points

That is why we went with Daito ryu Aikijujitsu Ginjukai :-)

Maybe Chris could translate the kanji? :-)
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #116
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
.......At some point we need to recognize that this body technology is old...ancient...and is the foundation for all of the legends we have heard about. Otherwise we will continue to be victimized by poor teaching, and on a continual quest for yet another face to put on it...and that typically Asian.
Dan
I had this conversation back in the '80s with a couple of friends, one you will meet next time you are out.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
.
Recognizing the richness and the context is intriguing and rewarding in itself. And in the end it helps is to understand an analogy that would forever have escaped our ability to...translate or absorb. Hence the budo scholars who didn't get it either.
Dan
As for this I think that this is the stuff that gets people looking for other hidden gems, to other sources and for the future. I do think it takes a certain kind of individual who has desire to look, the time and the research approach, as well as abilities to put it to effective practical use. If not it is valuable only if someone can find the research, figure it out and then work it out. There are a few of the first type and more of the second....but not many more.

Gary
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #117
yugen
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
I have never heard of that of koryu generally. I could see it being a Daito ryu thing to go along with the factionalism and the inherited pathos of Aizu culture. But whatever, it's private knowledge. So that leads us to here, where we cannot stop wrestling with this material on the internet, but nobody can openly talk about where it comes from.
Well my recollection is from about 8 years ago now, I briefly trained in one of the older Koryu with a Menkyo holder here outside Seattle. That's what I remember being told by him, but I could be wrong about that. I have no experience or abilities really to speak of.

All the best to you and your Budo path.

Last edited by yugen : 01-02-2013 at 09:46 PM.

Ryan Schoelerman

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #118
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Chris Hein
Your counter argument for such tiny percentages makes my case when I say to you "Do you have anything positive to say at all?" Given any opportunity you choose to accent the negative and almost begrudgingly mention something that might be positive. That said, we are not talking about just me are we? At least I'm not. The overwhelming impact that those with IP have had on Aikido (once an art based on IP) is the real point. Hence the argument for the correct translations, the correct pedagogy, the fact that the same work produced other unusual men, etc etc.
I know, it's just that most Aikido people don't really want to put themselves out there in that way, so I do it because we some balance. Also, I disagree with much of what you've said. Nothing personal, but I don't agree with much of it. The main problem I have with the "IP" community, is that they are so eager, that this whole discussion seems like a done deal to them. In my opinion, your hard work has just now started. You've gotten people to listen, now you have to prove what you say.

So I'll give you the props I think you deserve:

1. Dan Harden must be a very charismatic person in real life, many people seem to like him.
2. He has done lot's of work on his stuff, and it seems to interest lot's of the people in the internet Aikido community.

Those are the two things I can say that I'm pretty sure about. You've also gotten enough people interested in you, that I would like to meet you myself, and would like to come to ADV and meet you. I'm also pretty sure about that.

Beyond that, let's talk some more and see where it goes.

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:27 PM   #119
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Talking point #1
What on this earth would cause almost 100% of the people going in one direction (many of whom have invested significant portions of their lives to it)....to entirely change direction?
I think that is a compelling talking point.
...
1. It is irrefutable. Too many credible teachers were present in all those rooms.
2. It means that one must accept the claims that are associated with them:
  • There is a historical pedagogy outside of Aikido
  • A historical pedagogy within Aikido.
  • Direct terminology containing the same concepts across cultures and eras
  • Those concepts are known for producing power
  • There is a means to demonstrate the understanding of the above along with clear demonstrations of that power.
  • That the teachers in the art (in whole or in part) either don't know this, can't show this or can't teach this.
I remember talking with someone who (as best I can recall) described people they knew who had a relatively advanced understanding of "internals," but who didn't or couldn't apply them in a martial context. The implication I got was that there may be many people who know the content on its own, but that there are fewer people who can apply it very well in a highly demanding setting.
So the stuff is or can be relatively tough to learn on its own (at the very least in terms of the consistency of training required); add the demands of "fisticuffs" and it becomes even tougher. Finding folks who have a strong understanding of both is probably fairly rare. When people are found, I would guess they tend to stand out.
That being said, there's always a "yeah but" that can come to mind; people are great at thinking of creative solutions (it's a major reason we soft-skinned humans with no real natural weapons are more or less the top of the food chain): "Maybe those people were just blown away by a better fighter who had a cool way of describing his system; etc." In the realm of ideas, it's not irrefutable. The operant mechanisms are invisible, even though "we" (some, more than others) can point to places people like me can start looking to build a solid understanding. Ultimately for me it comes down to a whole bunch of "maybes" with one or two certainties: can I learn something useful? And once again it seems to point to the basic idea of constant training; when I have the opportunity to train with someone who might have something to teach me, how open-minded am I going to be? In person, whatever it might be is almost moot so long as I'm learning (and having fun ).

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:47 AM   #120
sakumeikan
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Re: Vantage points

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Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
You missed my point. Which is in very shot terms, that it's useless to watch a video without having touched the teacher and maye got oral instruction.

My personal videos on youtube are clearly not instructional and they are clearly not showing aikidô on a level that could help others in any way.

Yes, I had assumed that, even without knowing your biographie. You just sound this way.
The more I found it "astounding" and "not very good mannered" to discuss fees in the way you did.

As for you compared "your group", I would have found nice to know about it. I then googled your name + aikido and that didn't lead me to "your group". So I let it go.

You compared yours to others.

Maybe I simply didn't understand you.
Maybe the language barrier is a problem so I got you wrong.
For sure I am oversensitiv.

I understood:
Comparing one's own fees to those of other teachers and pointing at them because they seem to be more expensive.
Demanding videos (on the internet) of a teacher instead of going and practice with him.[/QU
Dear All ,
Intended to reply to Carstens comments above.My fingers /computer got mixed up.Cheers, Joe.
Ps .Carsten check out British Birankai Web Page under Officials/Shihan. Have a nice day. Joe.

Last edited by akiy : 01-03-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:31 AM   #121
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Vantage points

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Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Carsten check out British Birankai Web Page under Officials/Shihan. Have a nice day. Joe.
Thank you very much!
I did.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:47 AM   #122
DH
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
The main problem I have with the "IP" community, is that they are so eager, that this whole discussion seems like a done deal to them. In my opinion, your hard work has just now started.
It is a done deal. I think you are basing the reality of what we are doing on some sort of uneducated consensus among the western folk. We don't need a Sudanese child to know about Algebra in order to make Algebra a "done deal." There is no requirement that Chris Hein know about this in order to make it a done deal. This debate was over a long time before you or I were born.
Ueshiba didn't need anyone to know "how" he did what he did either in order to make it a done deal.. In fact most of our founding teachers didn't give a rip if we EVER found out.
Quote:
You've gotten people to listen, now you have to prove what you say.
I have been proving what I say for quite a while in rooms filled with dozens of people and I may be on the downward side of that soon. This isn't the wild west where I have to prove it to every gun slinger.

Don't operate under the impression that I want everyone to accept that what I am saying is true. Mind/body work was never for everyone. As Sagawa noted, most aren't cut out for it. This stuff is rockin good fun that will last a lifetime if you have a disciplined and curious mind. The nature of the work ensures it will remain elusive or elite as a treasure for those who chase it. But sadly, there are plenty of teachers who spent decades in Asia and never got it either and are convinced they did. I am not talking to them either. I am reaching out and having a dialogue with select, motivated people who are sharp enough to have realized that something didn't add up. Something wasn't quite right and have at least been searching.

At a certain point I hope this skill becomes self selective and most people simply "opt out." That will leave the majority of Budo people to be athletically driven, normal people convinced that better athletics is all there is. As one well known teacher said to me. "Don't TELL everyone....we need normal people to practice on."...Hey wait! Maybe that explains why so many Asian teachers said Only teach one or two people...hhmmm.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 01-03-2013 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:23 AM   #123
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I thought the startling fact that almost 100% of the teachers exposed to this work change and adopt it would be the....single....most compelling talking point to help bring the discussion forward.

The above statement has never been fully addressed. Chris Hein decided to tell us that he knows some people who thought the work (in this case, mine) was nothing special. Fine by me. I never said 100%. What he still doesn't address is the other 99%, or that fact that his "people" still failed to demonstrate unusual power...face to face. Why can I say that? Because I would have remembered them. They would have been different.
I'll add one "data point" to Chris Hein's. Peter Bernath, a USAF 7th dan and shihan, has attended at least one workshop with Dan. As it happens, I have a friend who is a very well-seasoned 2nd dan in the USAF and who attends many of the major USAF seminars on the east coast. My friend has taken many classes with Mr. Bernath over the past ten years, and has taken ukemi for Mr. Bernath as well.

My friend most recently trained with Mr. Bernath in November 2012 at the USAF Winter Camp in Florida. When my friend returned from Winter Camp, I asked him whether Mr. Bernath had changed the form or substance of his classes, or made any reference to IP in those classes. The answer was no.

I've left my friend's name out of this discussion because he is not a member of AikiWeb. If anyone would like to contact him to verify his account, please PM me and I will put you in touch.

Jim

Not having anything around to read is dangerous: you have to content yourself with life itself, and that can lead you to take risks. - M. Houellebecq, Platform
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:18 AM   #124
Chris Li
 
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Re: Vantage points

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote: View Post
I'll add one "data point" to Chris Hein's. Peter Bernath, a USAF 7th dan and shihan, has attended at least one workshop with Dan. As it happens, I have a friend who is a very well-seasoned 2nd dan in the USAF and who attends many of the major USAF seminars on the east coast. My friend has taken many classes with Mr. Bernath over the past ten years, and has taken ukemi for Mr. Bernath as well.

My friend most recently trained with Mr. Bernath in November 2012 at the USAF Winter Camp in Florida. When my friend returned from Winter Camp, I asked him whether Mr. Bernath had changed the form or substance of his classes, or made any reference to IP in those classes. The answer was no.

I've left my friend's name out of this discussion because he is not a member of AikiWeb. If anyone would like to contact him to verify his account, please PM me and I will put you in touch.

Jim
If you're implying that Peter didn't think much of Dan...then I suppose that it's best to talk to Peter directly about that. My impression however, based on conversations directly with Peter (not some ni-dan who sees him at seminars) is quite diferent.

Best,

Chris

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Old 01-03-2013, 08:52 AM   #125
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: Vantage points

Hi Chris,
Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
If you're implying that Peter didn't think much of Dan...then I suppose that it's best to talk to Peter directly about that. My impression however, based on conversations directly with Peter (not some ni-dan who sees him at seminars) is quite diferent.
I'm not implying anything of the kind. I'm simply reporting that Mr. Bernath, although "exposed to this work," does not seem to have adopted it explicitly in the seminar classes he is teaching. Because you know Mr. Bernath (I do not), you might ask him why that is.

Jim

Not having anything around to read is dangerous: you have to content yourself with life itself, and that can lead you to take risks. - M. Houellebecq, Platform
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