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Old 10-25-2012, 01:45 PM   #1
phitruong
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resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

could not respond to the Kokyu Rokyu thread http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...932#post317932 since moi has no experience whatsoever so i thought i would just do it here in the ill-informed section

*warning: IP/IS and aiki stuffs coming through*

i used to think that kokyu rokyu and ki can be had once you go through the usual aikido training and if you do it long enough, you get it. then i ran into a couple of IP/IS folks and they shown me that's not the case. there is a systematic way to train for those. there are two ways of breathing.

1. Buddha or normal breathing where your stomach expand on the inhale and contract on the exhale
2. Taoist or reverse breathing where your stomach contract on the inhale and expand on the exhale

The normal breathing usually associates with health and welfare (not the kind your wait in line at the social security office). it uses to increase oxygen intake into your blood stream.

The reverse breathing usually associates with power, i.e. generate power or absorb power for short period of time. it's not for health, because it will increase your blood pressure and if you do it too hard and often enough, you will have hypertension which isn't a good thing in the long run.

if you read Mike Sigman blog http://mikesigman.blogspot.com/ in the section of "Suit and Balloon man model", the process behind it uses reverse breathing (most of the time, not all the time) to help create a full body connectivity which unify your body so that you do "one moves, all move". the weak portion of your body is your trunk. it has a dynamic inflatable balloon or two built-in, i.e. your lung and stomach (to some degree). by using breathing, one can inflate the "inner tube" of your trunk to create extra stability and whole body connectivity, similar the tires on your car. this help greatly when you need to do aikiage or aikisage. this help your absorb and channel quite a bit of force into the ground, just like the tire on your car channeling the pressure from the weight of the car and passenger to the ground.

what about power generation? the reverse breathing sequence has some inherent power portion. when you inhale, your center/hara/dantien moves up along with the stomach compression. when you breath out, your center/hara/dantien drops down along with the expansion of the stomach. the expansion of the stomach also acts as the stabilizer and power channeling to the ground. the center/hara/dantien droping carried your body weight with it which slams straight down to the floor. that's the power generation, i.e. your entire body weight slam straight down, and if your arms happened to be fully "connected" to your body, your arms will have the weight of your body with it. This is the essence of the furitama exercise, i.e. shaking your hara/dantien up and down like a car piston which in turn vibrating the rest of your body. in the east, hara/dantien considered as the seat of one soul. shaking the soul = shaking the hara/dantien. shaking your arms in order to shake the rest of your body isn't it, it's the other way around.

it's really physics and biology and some voodoo magic with a side of green bean and coleslaw and fries.

that's mostly what i want to say from a very ill-informed opinion person, moi, with not much experience in most thing aiki or aikido or whatever, except for foods, drinks and women where i would very much like to be informed of where, when and how.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:43 PM   #2
Michael Hackett
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Phi, in your discussion of reverse breathing you mentioned that it can lead to hypertension if done too often or strongly. Can you discuss what you mean by too often or too strongly a bit?

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:59 AM   #3
Dazzler
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Like Phi I am also not worthy of posting in VOE having been too lazy to register formally (shame on me)...

However an interesting topic so I'll throw something I have lying around on to the heap for those that like this sort of thing....

Tamura Sensei wrote about Kokyu-Ryoku

Quote:
Tamura Sensei wrote:

"
"You can practice Aikido if you can lift three ounces of bran."

This indicates that Aikido is not an art of combat based on the use of physical and muscular force, of one body against another.

The execution of a technique of Aikido is achieved by using mental energy and physical force naturally. If you can use this method it is possible to develop a strength superior to any which you believe you may have. When we say that old people, women and children can practice, this not only means that they can learn but that they can actually apply this way of combat once they have fully understood it.

I have touched upon Kokyu earlier. We now pass on to the stage of physiological respiration by which we can absorb within ourselves the energy of the Universe. We can go further still and say that we become part of the one body of the Universe. The energy which flows form this is ours without being ours. It is, in reality, the energy of the Universe that surges from our bodies. This force, concentrated in the Seika Tanden and filling all parts of our body, is like water that gushes forth and never stops. This energy which emanates from the body and mind which is always calm, serene and relaxed, which can respond at any time and in any direction required, is called Kokyu Ryoku.

This energy, which is a gift from Heaven, cannot be expressed if your neck, your shoulders or your arms are unnecessarily tense or if you imagine yourself strong or weak or if you believe that this force does not exist. All this rubbish, all these impurities are all barriers to the passage of Ki. It is like a hose pipe which is constricted by same one treading on it or if it is blocked and from which water cannot flow.

O Sensei often repeats:

"Aikido is a purification of the body and soul and it is to clean out the body and soul."

It is obvious that if this exteror and interior cleaning is carried out, the soul will be radiant, the circulation of the blood will improve and so will the mind and body.

Kokyu Ryoku is brought to life in the practice of Aikido by a simple gesture such as raising an arm or advancing a foot. An Aikido technique executed without employing Kokyu Ryoku is not an Aikido technique. It is champagne without the bubbles or flat beer.

Kokyu Ryoku learned intellectually is useless. It is necessary to learn it physically in daily exercise. it is only assimilated by contained accumulation.

O Sensei says on this subject:

"Three days work is not only three day work; a years work is not only a years work. Ten years work stores up the energy of ten years."

Without Kokyu Ryoku, the form of a technique can exist but it is an empty form.

It is impossible to impregnate yourself without practicing the techniques. Whatever happens, the result will be different according to whether you believe this or not."
.
My thoughts on this subject...

For starters it endorses much of what Iwamaki has posted.

The talk of energy in all directions matches exactly what I'm training with Dan Harden...6 directions.

Empty techniques - Perhaps this it the much criticised 'Modern Aikido"

What I don't agree with is this bit....

Quote:
Iwamaki wrote:
It is important to understand that consciously trying to get KOKYU RYOKU or KI will not produce the desired results, but only frustration. It is therefore best to enjoy training every day, and not think about things that will come by themselves when the time is right. Aikido training, among its many other benefits including self-defense, self-improvement, physical fitness, camaraderie, etc., is fun. After all, where else can you twist peoples' wrists and throw them down hard every day and not get arrested or sued?.
Further...Tamura's words aren't exactly helpful to me and ~I'm sure many others. So don't think I'm popping at Iwamaki...far from it. Although Tamara Sensei did point to daily exercise....but what exercise?

So ....I think there is a better way other than just training for a long time and hoping for results to come. This is what the IP/IS crowd are saying. My thoughts are that I agree with them...or am I now 'one of them' despite my fledgeling skills?. For me specific training of the body and breathing to create an Aiki body that can then be deployed through Aiki waza that will have champagne bubbles is the way forward - a real objective and not a hope that I'll be the lucky first one that replicates O'Sensei skills by just training in hope.

Happy friday!
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:51 AM   #4
phitruong
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Phi, in your discussion of reverse breathing you mentioned that it can lead to hypertension if done too often or strongly. Can you discuss what you mean by too often or too strongly a bit?
man! you had to ask that question! why couldn't you ask question like, when is the next party? and who bring the booze?

lets me see if i could throw on some layman stuffs. you can shoot me (with paintball) if i messed up. in the reverse breathing sequence, the inhale where you compress your abdominal while trying to pull in air to your lung. the only way to do that is to expand the upper chest cavity which stretches all the fasica and what not of your upper body which creates extra connectivity linkage between your arms and your body, so it would take the load off your shoulder (somewhat). because of the abdominal compression and upper chest cavity expansion, you create a higher pressure inside your trunk which acts as a big hand squeezing your middle from the inside. this compression squeezes your internal organs and all around your upper body, and force your heart to push blood through at a higher pressure than normal. your body defensive mechanism to deal with higher blood pressure than normal is to dilate all the blood vessels in your body, sort of increase the volume to decrease the pressure approach. you will notice when you do reverse breathing you feel like an expanding balloon. however, your blood vessels could only expand so far, after the max expansion, the pressure would build up. think of pumping air into a balloon then preventing the balloon from expanding. what you will have is pressure increase. so because the pressure increased dues to your heart trying to compensate for the compression, and your body trying to auto correct the situation, the pressure went up toward your head. when you do the reverse breathing hard enough, you will feel like your head ready to explode. also, because the reverse breathing won't allow air to fully pull inside your lung, you are sort of deprived your body of oxygen and increased CO2 level. you are sort of putting stress on your pulmonary system.

so that's a bunch of crappola information. the old admonition is that if you do it too hard and too often where your body hasn't the time to adapt, your "ki will leave you body and evil ghosts enter your body" (them asian have some interesting idea on what would happen to you, almost Halloween like). it's really a description for having a stroke. here is a question for you to consider, which route does your ki leaving you and the evil ghosts enter the same path?

ps. there is an interesting article on reverse breathing here http://www.dongs.com/thesis.pdf. the article didn't mention his first name. hopefully, it was not "long".

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:17 PM   #5
Michael Hackett
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Well, Phi the question of where the next party is and who is bringing the booze is always implied in my questions - and I sadly noticed you didn't answer that one!

On the other hand, your reference to the Dong research project was very imformative and certainly very interesting. I think I will play with the blood pressure cuff a little and do a mini study here at home to compare resting BP, belly breathing and reverse breathing and see what I find.

Thanks for taking the time to answer the unimportant questions I had!

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #6
wxyzabc
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

"ki will leave your body and evil ghosts enter your body"

Hya Phil

Joking aside this is known to happen and can. If you mess too much with your body and go against nature other things will too. It's nothing to do with having a stroke.

Lee
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:33 AM   #7
grondahl
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Quote:
Lee Price wrote: View Post
"ki will leave your body and evil ghosts enter your body"

Hya Phil

Joking aside this is known to happen and can. If you mess too much with your body and go against nature other things will too. It's nothing to do with having a stroke.

Lee
Are there any documented cases of this? I searched Pubmed and only found this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12288176 (in this case ghosts = malaria)
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:59 AM   #8
Krystal Locke
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Quote:
Lee Price wrote: View Post
"ki will leave your body and evil ghosts enter your body"

Hya Phil

Joking aside this is known to happen and can. If you mess too much with your body and go against nature other things will too. It's nothing to do with having a stroke.

Lee
What are you talking about?
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:02 PM   #9
wxyzabc
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Lol..scary eh.....all I'll say it's happened in Japan and I'm personally aware of two cases. Seems some practioners of arts such as tai-chi etc have had very real problems with this kind of thing and very few can help. You won't find much documented though naturally

I will say no one in aikido that I know of will be able to help anyone that messes up....so be careful what you do...that's why dojo practise is always the safest way. Some people are advocating certain things without possibly understanding/explaining what can go wrong. Too many people are merely accepting without really questioning or knowing much at all....you wouldn't really take a drug without knowing the side effects would you? take care is all I can say to everyone.

People in China doing internals etc are known to have become mentally sick...some that appeared strong in youth have suffered later. Some accomplished people on this site have also indicated that the mental state of some who went before in aikido have not always been so great....I won't go further to highlight anyone.

Where do I get my info?. I'm very lucky to know a very senior Japanese practioner/healer outside of aikido who has had to deal with this kind of thing. I won't give info on him and he probably won't be happy to see you if you mess up...be warned..

Lee
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:30 PM   #10
Michael Hackett
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Please discuss the two cases you are familiar with in some detail if you will. What were they doing to trigger this affliction? What was the affliction and how did it manifest? What was the outcome? How was the outcome achieved? If your earlier posts aren't some sort of Halloween gag, then what you are alluding to is fascinating and bears discussion.

You mentioned the mental health of some in China who studied internal arts and mentioned some in aikido who suffered mentally. Are you suggesting the studies were the cause of mental problems? Correlation and causation are two different things.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:56 PM   #11
wxyzabc
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Hya Michael

I can understand you asking those questions and I can assure you it's no joke. However I won't specifiy any more information on the cases I talked about. It would be nothing short of irresponsible to give out that kind of information on a subject very few are knowledgable about.

I won't take any responsibility for supplying further information about this other than to say people have had and can have very real physical/mental and spiritual problems following various internal practises.

If you have a teacher or someone saying you should do something outside of normal practise then you should be asking them about what is safe, what isn't..things that could go wrong. Is their experience only theirs? or can they show you a teacher that is legitimate and shows what they are doing is safe and will continue to be safe well into old age. If they can't or won't give you the answers, or laugh it off then you shouldn't be seeing them as an authority to follow blindly. Some students with something doesn't always mean a lot imho.

This is the only and best answer I will give you...take care...and don't let ego lead you.

All the best

Lee

Last edited by wxyzabc : 10-28-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:43 AM   #12
Krystal Locke
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Lee, that smells fishy to me. I dont think there is anything inherent in IS/IP training that would necessarily cause a psychotic break in an otherwise healthy individual. And I sure as spit dont think evil spirits are waiting to jump in if I exhale a certain way.

Way more likely that over the fullness of time, a couple folk who were already mentally ill did some training that became a focus or a trigger for their issues. Anything can do that, aikido, tennis, burgers at McDonalds, an unfortunately timed fart.... Also possible, if Phi is correct about reverse breathing raising BP, some folks may have just had strokes which can certainly change a person's mentation. No demons required.

Your caginess doesn't lend your claim any credibility at all.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:34 AM   #13
James Sawers
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Hi folks. This info here is based on loose research I've done over the years, but take it with a grain of salt, cause I certainly do, but it is an interest of mine, and is certainly interesting.

I have heard the term "ki sickness" which apparently involves ki being bottle-necked somewhere and somehow in your system. This "sickness" can apparently manifest itself in physical/mental/emotional ways, depending, sometimes on pre-existing conditions/dispositions (of course, the proper/improper channeling of ki (chi) is what traditional chinese medicine is based on, yes). I have heard this tied in with raising kundalini, where the kundalini gets blocked or channeled improperly. Nowadays all this can probably be researched on the internet much more quickly and easily. Some think that ki (chi) and Kundalini are the same, some don't. Of course, some think that neither actually exist, too.

I guess if you Google "ki sickness" you might get some results that may lead to answers of more info, at least. This ki (kundalini) sickness, by-the-way, is not some kind of magical thing, but is a "real" energy gone awry. Some weird pyschological effects, including delusions, from what I've read, can ocur, but these are not evil spirits. Anyway, a lot of different stuff here. Have your salt shaker handy....
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:01 AM   #14
wxyzabc
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Hya Krystal

It can't smell fishy as it's nowhere near you : ) and your beliefs are your own for sure...my experiences and knowledge are too. I don't need to justify and won't...but in the end if there never was there never is...ponder on that one ^^

All the best

Lee
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:56 AM   #15
Alex Megann
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Lee, that smells fishy to me. I dont think there is anything inherent in IS/IP training that would necessarily cause a psychotic break in an otherwise healthy individual. And I sure as spit dont think evil spirits are waiting to jump in if I exhale a certain way.

Way more likely that over the fullness of time, a couple folk who were already mentally ill did some training that became a focus or a trigger for their issues. Anything can do that, aikido, tennis, burgers at McDonalds, an unfortunately timed fart.... Also possible, if Phi is correct about reverse breathing raising BP, some folks may have just had strokes which can certainly change a person's mentation. No demons required.

Your caginess doesn't lend your claim any credibility at all.
I have experienced something like this. A student in our dojo was spending a lot of time studying intensely a qigong system with a well-known teacher, and I started to notice something strange with his body. It's hard to put into words, but to me he felt "disconnected" throughout his body in a way I had never noticed in anyone else, and this was not helping him understand the way I have been practising myself and trying to teach aikido in recent years, which is very much in the opposite direction. At the time I assumed it was his other practice causing this "wrongness" (which is how it seemed to me), and I gently questioned him about it, but he had confidence that he was going in the right direction for him.

Anyway, during one of his visits to the US to see his teacher he had some kind of crisis that involved him going to hospital. This was subsequently diagnosed as the first of several episodes of clinical schizophrenia, for which he is still under medication. I don't know what connection there was between what he was practising and his illness, but I would be very surprised if there were none. He has admitted to me since that he had indeed some feeling that this was the case, and doesn't practise these qigong forms any more.

I am sure that qigong itself is not intrinsically to blame (I used to practise it myself a while back, and found it calming and invigorating). Rather it seems to have been a combination of an particular individual following a particular teacher at a certain unfortunate time of life, and the intensity of his rather inward-forcused exercises may have brought on the crisis.

Alex
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:32 AM   #16
phitruong
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

personally i don't subscribe to the whole notion of ki ball shooting out of my rear-end (unless my diet includes cabage, kimchi, and a heavy dose of beans) and evil ghosts entering through my ass (good luck on that one, since phi's body has already been occupied by a pure evil party going bastard named phi, that already puts up a sign of "no vacancy"). i am more likely to believe in the stroke side of the fence. here is a link to webmd on stroke http://www.webmd.com/stroke/guide/stroke-symptoms, on this section,
"If several smaller strokes occur over time, you may have a more gradual change in walking, balance, thinking, or behavior (multi-infarct dementia)."

so for me, i am going with high BP -> Strokes theory. besides, those taoists were a bunch of nut jobs and party animals. wonder when and where their next party? hmmmm.... *mumble mumble not that i am interested in the party.....mumble mumble wonder if they got any babes there....mumble mumble wonder if michael hackett will be there...mumble mumble*

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:06 PM   #17
Robert Cowham
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

I would certainly agree with blood pressure => strokes as something to be wary of at least. I can't be alone in having given myself headaches through overdoing simple things like pushups?

Re kundalini, that's a rather different beast - there are plenty of other things to be aware of and quite a few people have reported a very rough ride at times. Keep tongue up, keep drinking lots of water, and keep thinking positive thoughts!
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:05 PM   #18
Michael Hackett
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Lee, thank you for taking the time to clarify that you weren't joking. Your answers were essentially worthless to me, while your advice was both correct and valuable - and applies to any discipline in which one is being taught.

I wasn't asking you to violate some sort of HIPPA laws, but rather it seems like it would be reasonable to say something along the lines of "I personally knew two students who were studying XYZ gi gong and experienced mental health breakdowns." or something of the like.

I don't dispute that individuals can experience varied difficulties with exercises and activities. My gi gong teacher and two friends who are doctors of Chinese medicine have all talked about "ki blockages", the ramifications and how they are resolved. I have yet another acquaintance who has become quite strange since he became involved with a specific organization that many believe to be a cult. Those things happen. I also know of many individuals who have experienced severe mental health problems and others who have suffered physical problems who have never experimented with any asian discipline. Those things happen too.

Your response simply wasn't very helpful, to me anyway. Perhaps I am not sufficiently attuned, so I will thank you for your effort and go on with my business.

Michael
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:34 PM   #19
phitruong
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
On the other hand, your reference to the Dong research project was very imformative and certainly very interesting. I think I will play with the blood pressure cuff a little and do a mini study here at home to compare resting BP, belly breathing and reverse breathing and see what I find.
forgot to ask that when you play with this, don't forget to monitor heart rate. the Dong study didn't mention anything about heart rate. i would be interested in know if there is a change in heart rate or not. my guess is that the heart rate increases, because of the low oxygen intake and higher CO2 in your blood, where your body defensive mechanism is to increase heart rate to circulate blood faster in order to get more oxygen and expel CO2. that's just a guess. but don't do this if you have previous heart condition or high blood pressure.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:23 PM   #20
wxyzabc
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Hya Michael

One was doing tai-chi the other aiki training....both became sick in a way no one would want to be....that's all I'll say.

All the best

Lee
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:36 PM   #21
Michael Hackett
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Thank you Lee.

Michael
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:46 PM   #22
Michael Hackett
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Phi,

Due to a number of factors I was only able to do a small study today. I took my BP and pulse three times each with about a minute between tests for normal breathing, belly breathing and reverse breathing. My BP and pulse were at my normal rates that I've experienced for years. Each reading went down for belly breathing slightly, with systolic and dystolic readings dropping 2 points and pulse dropping almost 5 beats. With reverse breathing, both BP readings raised 2 points over my norm and my pulse raised almost 10 beats per minute. Obviously these "tests" weren't very scientific or statistically valid, but I found the results interesting and much what I expected. I will try to carve out a better window of time and repeat the experiment several more times and then repeat over a few days time. Again, this ain't gonna be terribly valid or scientific, but it should give me a hint as to how my own body will react. At this point I think it would be more dangerous for me to hold my breath while lifting heavy weights or something similar. Such a slight elevation in BP and pulse rate doesn't seem to be much of a concern at this point.

In any event, the whole idea is intriguing to me.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:48 PM   #23
wxyzabc
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Hya Michael...I'm not pointing to you at all but sat here with 5 mins thought I could say a little more.

Your wise to do a personal checkup but this does show one thing. That generally in aikido most in doing something different can end up making a guinea pig of themselves. Lost in a pioneer spirit some that got sick here thought they had something great..something different that would and could lead to something beyond the norm...and trust me it certainly did!. The Tai-chi teacher was very "high level" btw... a shihan here in Japan.

Lets not forget that this is early days for most for ip/is outside of Asia. Lets also not forget that in the early days of smoking, smoking was something that even doctors recommended as being good for relaxation and a strong constitution! as we know that may not always be the case and later some have suffered for over indulgance....hence my warning.

Those that do understand in Japan say it is very important to have the right mindset...you basically have to feel humble inside. Those that go off thinking about power etc are going to be in big trouble for sure...they can end up like some Stitch thing with all kinds of mental issues and confrontational problems. This kind of training can easily change your personality and not always for the best. Remember even Stitch went looking for a family...lol ^^

In modern aikido people haven't "failed"...that's just insanity on a grand scale. Few people in Japan think of fighting when practising aikido...it's nothing to do with that at all. It has to be said as some could easily have become confused with what they've had to listen to for the last few years.

In aikido I would personally have to recommend studying with Endo sensei for something that can and does lead to excellence without a damaged mindset. People that want to be ultimate soldier or king of fighters should do others a service and leave the other people in aikido alone imho.

Thats my thought for today anyway....sorry again Michael for having your name on the top..there's nothing personal in that at all.

All the best

Lee

Last edited by wxyzabc : 10-28-2012 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:34 AM   #24
oisin bourke
 
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

Quote:
Lee Price wrote: View Post
Those that do understand in Japan say it is very important to have the right mindset...you basically have to feel humble inside. Those that go off thinking about power etc are going to be in big trouble for sure...they can end up like some Stitch thing with all kinds of mental issues and confrontational problems. This kind of training can easily change your personality and not always for the best. Remember even Stitch went looking for a family...lol ^^
Pretty good advice in most of that post, but this section deserves highlighting IMO. I always wondered about people who say, spent hours on end on their own in a room practicing sumo stomps
with the intention of becoming unbeatable fighter, like Sagawa Yukiyoshi apparently did. It just can"t be good for your social skills, to say the least! I believe that this is one reason why a lot of solo training was practiced in the forms of calligraphy, dance, painting, tea ceremony etc. You were focussed on creating something beautiful that benefitted others.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:07 AM   #25
Lee Salzman
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Re: resp to Kokyu Rokyu thread

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
Pretty good advice in most of that post, but this section deserves highlighting IMO. I always wondered about people who say, spent hours on end on their own in a room practicing sumo stomps
with the intention of becoming unbeatable fighter, like Sagawa Yukiyoshi apparently did. It just can"t be good for your social skills, to say the least! I believe that this is one reason why a lot of solo training was practiced in the forms of calligraphy, dance, painting, tea ceremony etc. You were focussed on creating something beautiful that benefitted others.
Are you implying dancers or painters do not do their own solitary practice to improve their ability for its own sake, just to be better dancers or painters because, maybe, just maybe, they sincerely enjoy dancing or painting? Are you implying that everything a dancer does or a painter does is solely with the goal of displaying it to others for their pleasure? Are you implying that martial arts does not have its own depth and an ability to bring people together or be pleasing to others? Are you implying that one can get good at aiki without highly specific tanren? It sure seems like it.

Then again...

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We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and -- in spite of True Romance magazines -- we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely -- at least, not all the time -- but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don't see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness.

Last edited by Lee Salzman : 10-29-2012 at 04:10 AM.
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