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Old 10-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #26
Linda Eskin
 
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Whatever the diagnosis is, I hope it heals quickly and uneventfully. Don't risk reinjuring it by trying to roll "just on one side" or something where you could have to deal with a sudden, unexpected movement, or someone grabbing you on the wrong side. That said, you could do some gentle, controlled training on one side. We have a student who broke his collarbone (off-roading, not on the mat) shortly before an exam, and after the surgery (which stabilized it with plates/screws, or something like that) Sensei did a class where we just worked on one-handed techniques. As I recall there was some kokyu-nage and kokyu-ho. It turned out the guy healed fast enough to do his exam normally, but the one-handed class was interesting.

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Old 10-18-2012, 12:06 PM   #27
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Quote:
Kevin Tejan wrote: View Post
Thanks everyone. Does anyone know any exec rices For technique i can do with one hand?
None that I'd recommend to someone who has been injured and is looking for advice over the internet. You should be following your doctor's advice in these matters. I know it's hard, but the more you shop around for someone who will tell you what you want to hear, the more you're likely to regret it down the road. Happy talk now will end in tears.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:10 PM   #28
Linda Eskin
 
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Lightbulb Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

You might find some inspiration in these videos of AlejAndro Anastasio Sensei:

"One Handed Aikido. Inspirational Speech."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_VFeFOjac

"AlejAndro Sensei's Aiki Expo Demonstration 2003" [weapons]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzu067peAaU

He is not teaching right now, but here's his web page:
http://www.3shapesaikido.com/

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Old 10-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #29
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Good news. Went to the orthopedic surgeon today. I did have a shoulder seperation, however, the bump might go down but won't ever go away. Most of the problem was due to a lot of inflammation, including in the muscles. This is also where most of the pain is coming from he said. He gave me a inflammation med, a pain med too. He said I don't need physical therapy. Indeed, before I noticed it was healing, I had more mobility in my arm/shoulder over the last week, I could tell. He said I'd heal completely most likely in only 4 weeks, and if no pain and swelling can continue my aikido with no issues. I was lucky, no surgery needed, it'll heal on its own. I'm still probably , if I'm completely healed in 4 weeks, going postpone my aikido another 1-2 weeks to be safe. I can already feel a difference in the inflammation meds working, less pain (he and the pharmacist that was the main cause of the pain and it would reduce the swelling and pain), and more mobility in the arm. In one week he told me to remove the sling, as it'd eventually make my arm and shoulder more stiff, and start moving the hand and arm downward to improve mobility and movement. He said absolutely not to do this overhead (I know from experience this hurts really really bad from removing my tshirt for showers. I'm trying to find a different way to do it. ) I'm seeing him again in 2 weeks to see if the meds and any improvement , less swelling in muscles on my left affected shoulder, etc. I'm pretty happy it went so well and I can return eventually to aikido. I'm happy. I can feel the improvements in only the last week. Amazing how the body heals itself. Thanks guys for the support , again. Kevin.

Last edited by SparkErosion : 10-18-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:52 PM   #30
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Quote:
Linda Eskin wrote: View Post
You might find some inspiration in these videos of AlejAndro Anastasio Sensei:

"One Handed Aikido. Inspirational Speech."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_VFeFOjac

"AlejAndro Sensei's Aiki Expo Demonstration 2003" [weapons]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzu067peAaU

He is not teaching right now, but here's his web page:
http://www.3shapesaikido.com/
I'm taking Mary's advice , not training with one hand, but still reading my aikido and the dynamic sphere (seems like all of aikido is movement? Can someone please confirm this? Movement with the attacker, (rarely static) and movement in blending with the attacker in semi or full, or many of these circles, reversing the energy and using the attackers movement to your advantage. Indeed , it seems in my opinion the stronger and faster the attacker charges at you to attack, the more energy from this, thus the harder they fall, right? A basic law is energy is not destroyed ever, but always changing. Einstein proved that energy is equilevent to mass in E=MC^2. This is interesting . What do you guys of this, am I possible correct in all of this? Thank you! And thanks for those inspirational links, they look interesting . I'll read and watch them! I also am talking to Molly Hale now, what a nice and amazing lady! Kevin .
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:54 PM   #31
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

just because you can't physically do aikido doesn't mean you can't go to the dojo and practice. watching is a kind of practice. besides, you can practice footwork, right?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 10-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #32
SparkErosion
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Also I wanted to very clear, I took your guys advice , and told him exactly how it happened, and how I feel, and it was during a training session in the martial arts called aikido. Thanks .
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:10 PM   #33
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
just because you can't physically do aikido doesn't mean you can't go to the dojo and practice. watching is a kind of practice. besides, you can practice footwork, right?
Exactly. I'm not sure about the footwork, but perhaps stabilizing my center and hara with my legs might be a good idea. There's probably I bet an ex cerise for that too I bet,. I'm waiting for the swelling and pain to go down, probably at least another week. Problem is I'm going to have the sling off by then, I don't want to fly in the bus and hit the floor again which happened a couple, I was injured with a lot of bruises and flew forward from the very hard and extremly sudden stop at a stop light, I flew forward over 20 feet, towards the very part of the driver , beyond the very front of the bus. These sudden stops happen often, but rarely that bad. Everything I was wearing and in my pickets went flying too from the force. I'll have no sling, my arm and shoulder would be exposed, and I'd have to walk a mile home late at night. Probably not a good idea. I would love to go to the dojo and watch, but my motorcycle was totaled in a bad accident and later I sold it for parts. I have no automobile or motorcycle, even though I have a valid license for both. I'd have to get my parents to take me, which they won't do, my friend Kelly might but I'm not sure shell want to wait an hour and half until the class is over... I'll ask her or try and contact her today, thanks.
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:29 PM   #34
Diana Frese
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Glad you got reassurance from the doctor that it will heal okay and not take too much time. Lots of good advice from everyone, too. Just a little suggestion I just thought of, not sure if they told my husband to put his neck brace back on if on a bus, etc. before it was given more time to heal, but the idea I might have gotten from somebody or other was to put the arm back in a sling for the bus ride and then take it off when you arrive, until it is healed more thoroughly.

By the way, your buses seem wilder than the New York subways. If I remember correctly, the west side was usually okay but the few times I took the east side it was a bit wild, kinda swaying back and forth while racing down the tra ck. Just kidding around because it's a big relief you're gonna be okay!
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:05 AM   #35
Linda Eskin
 
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Yay! That's great news. :-)

A trick I've used for taking off t-shirts (post-shoulder-surgery, and after injuring mine) is to lean forward and let your arm hang "up" over your head - like raising your arm, but upside down, so you aren't using muscles to do it.

To put a t-shirt on, stand normally, put the hand on the injured side into the arm hole, and pull the shirt up to your armpit, and then put it over your head and other arm, again keeping the injured side completely relaxed.

By the way, both of my shoulders are "sprung" (what my orthopedic guy called that bump)... Doesn't seem to cause me any trouble. :-)

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Old 10-20-2012, 10:35 PM   #36
SparkErosion
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

More good news yay!! Posted: Oct 20, 2012 9:31pm
Arm is getting much better, little to very low moderate pain now. I was able to take off the sling and have little to no pain from the healing. The doctor said to take the sling off in 4 days , 2weeks at the latest and at this point said the sling would make the arm too stiff. I removed the sling, I can now move my shoulders and arms, without pain, behind my back, sides, front and side from extended arm from shoulder,the anti inflammation meds are helping a lot, I can now flex or tense my muscles with no pain. I'm doing physical therapy sessions by myself by doing downward arm swings to engage even more mobility. Any movement overhead is very painful , he said to avoid and NOt do that. I won't. I'm being extra careful, taking time for it to heal. Thanks guys for the support, Kevin .
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:13 AM   #37
Krystal Locke
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Do not jump back into aikido too vigorously. Even though the pain is mostly gone, do not stop doing therapy and strengthening exercises. Work out a new plan with your sensei so that you do not re-injure yourself.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:30 PM   #38
SparkErosion
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Do not jump back into aikido too vigorously. Even though the pain is mostly gone, do not stop doing therapy and strengthening exercises. Work out a new plan with your sensei so that you do not re-injure yourself.
.will do. Im going to avoidall ukemi when I go back, I wil do the preliminary tenkan and irimi exercises
, and be the nage, avoiding being thrown etc. if I need help , ill observe others. thanks guys
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:12 PM   #39
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Went to aikido yesterday, learned an aikitaiso blending technique for using kyokunage against a yokomenchi strike. Step, pivot, step back. Very basic movements. I'll post a video later of it, it's going to be very rigid, I haven't gotten it to lend well yet, I want to know if the basic movement/technique is correct! For example, when I first started learning it yesterday , I'd have me right foot back. I'd step with that foot , pivot, and step forward . I ended up with the right foot as always the back foot, which I think is wrong. Now when I do it, I think I learned the footwork right, so I step back after pivoting, and the right foot is initially back, then the left is in back, then right again. I'm learning ude furi choyaku undo. At first I just did the spin, ude furi undo, now slowly I'm coordinating the arms with it. I'm beginning to see how it applies. Is it ok if I post a video of it to make sure I'm using correct technique , just to be sure? Thanks!! Kevin
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:19 PM   #40
Krystal Locke
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Feel free to post videos, but please remember that your sensei is the person who should be telling you your technique is correct or not, not us. You picked that person to be your teacher, you pay that person to be your teacher, let that person be your teacher. The best we can give you is opinion, not instruction.

Glad you are feeling better.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:04 PM   #41
Janet Rosen
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Quote:
Kevin Tejan wrote: View Post
Is it ok if I post a video of it to make sure I'm using correct technique , just to be sure? Thanks!! Kevin
I don't think this is the right forum for that feedback.
Here you have people from a variety of styles within aikido, some from outside aikido, a huge range of experience levels, etc....which actually is NOT going to be helpful because you are learning something specific to your dojo and only your teacher knows what it is s/he expects from you at this time.

Janet Rosen
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:38 PM   #42
SparkErosion
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
I don't think this is the right forum for that feedback.
Here you have people from a variety of styles within aikido, some from outside aikido, a huge range of experience levels, etc....which actually is NOT going to be helpful because you are learning something specific to your dojo and only your teacher knows what it is s/he expects from you at this time.
Yes it is kind of specific to my dojo, I let my sensei know and his friend who is the same aikido rank and also an teacher there.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #43
Krystal Locke
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

So, Kevin, where do you train? Just curious....
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #44
SparkErosion
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido fu

Five Rings Aikido in Tempe arizona. Our sensei is a sandan.
We also have another teacher who is (I think) the same rank and sometimes teaches. He focues more on striking and doing damage (atemi, not feinting) attacks as well as techniques.

Sensei Jim Clark focuses more on doing no harm, but both have a different philosphy from one another.

Jim Clark Sensei is our main teacher, Gene only fills when he is out of town.

There are many aspects of of Aikido why people choose it. Philosphy, physical, fitness, spiritual, practicaility. I chose above all, practicality as #1, and philosphy (morally) as #2. I don't believe in harming an attacker unless in a life or death situation, and as a last resort at that.

Its focused more on practical techniques, not on some 'fu fu' schools where apparantly I guess the nage does not attack with energy, and the uke just "falls down" without the nage doing much.

Also we are constantly reminded how real life applications of aikido are important, as well as practical applications in case of dangerous situations sometimes.Such as instead a circular strike to the head with the hands, it could be a bat, beer bottle, knife, sword (unlikely haha), hook punch, etc. Safety is #1, we do free style (randori) starting at our first belt (yellow belt,5th kyu, 1 man randori) which is what I am very close to testing for.

For that randori, it is yokomenchi strike to the head as the nage's attack and for the uke's defense kokyunage which is a basic technique I think taught to beginners alot.
I feel it is one of the most simpliest and easier techniques.

To help with the kokyonage, I've gotten alot better at a blending technique that derives from the ude furi undo, its called ude furi choyaku undo. It helps with randori and movement in all techniques, teaches you how to move I think, and also can be a direct application of kokyunage, as the movement, and hip pivoting from the center provide alot of the unbalancing, as well as the extension of the nage's body and leading the arm down and then up, then dropping the weight at the end after unbalancing to finissh the projection.

To do this, we do it a little differently. We make like a triangle with the fingers of both hands, similir to how you might roll forward (with both of the hands), and keep it front of the face directly at all times. This helps me know which direction i'm facing and be aware of keeping my hands in front o fme for defense at all times, I believe. My teacher said this choyaku technique (blending excerise) can be a direct application to yoko kokyunage.

I do it by taking a step forward from (left foot behind, right foot slightly forward) with my left foot, pivot on both feet, and take a step back from the opposite foot. I end up the facing the opposite direction I came, along with the back feet being reversed (left foot behind, after pivoting and stepping back, right foot behind). In a smooth motion it is one movement.

Last edited by SparkErosion : 10-27-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:31 PM   #45
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido future

Hi guys, just wanted to make an update. It's been some time since I last posted here.

It's healed completely. However, the pain still lingers.

Its not alot of pain at all, but it hurts sometimes a decent amount and then it goes away. For a short moment I have some pain, (several seconds) then the pain goes away again. I'm wondering if this is normal or if I'm always going to have pain with this injury. I still cannot sleep on my left side, due to the strain on the shoulder.

I passed my first test (yellow belt, rokkyu) successfully after the injury recently.

It mostly hurts when I roll. Rolling on my left side (which is my 'good' side, I roll best on my left side for some reason) properly with very low impact still gives it some pain. Taking ukemi to a kaiten nage is painful sometimes.

Rolling backwards it doesn't really hurt/barely hurts at all. just forward on the left side. Certain positions seem to hurt more.

I know you guys aren't doctors, but has anyone here experienced the same thing? What helped you with it? Has the pain gone away for you completely?

6th Kyu in Aikido. (Yellow belt). Been training consistently for 10 months.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:45 PM   #46
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido future

Did have time to read through all the post. I was thrown in practice last year with a uechi Mata and suffered a rockwood IV complete AC joint separation. Surgery 5 days later. I have fiberwire holding my joint together. I am a BJJ and Judo player.

I will no longer compete in Judo because of it. In BJJ I most likely won't compete again either. However I am 47 as well. I will also modify my practice in Aikido some as well.

However, it does not mean I cannot train and it did not really keep me off the mat much. I was back up to speed in 9 months.

I am also an active duty infantry officer and I do alpine climbing. Not too much affect.

Really what I watch is getting thrown and landing hard on it and some one cranking on it which they shouildnt anyway. BJJ I can still roll full out but I do tap as my range of motion is still limited a little.

Just modify your training and you should be dine. It does not mean you cannot train, only that u must modify what u do.

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Old 03-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #47
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido future

Oh...I don't do forward rolls too much as I am concerned with the weight if I screw it up. Done enough of em anyway over the years.

Do physical therapy to strengthen the shoulder. I am doing kettle bells and Indian clubs which work real well and range of motion and conditioning.

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Old 03-17-2013, 05:53 AM   #48
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido future

Quote:
Kevin Tejan wrote: View Post
Its not alot of pain at all, but it hurts sometimes a decent amount and then it goes away. For a short moment I have some pain, (several seconds) then the pain goes away again. I'm wondering if this is normal or if I'm always going to have pain with this injury. I still cannot sleep on my left side, due to the strain on the shoulder.
Five months is not very long to heal an orthopedic injury. As previously stated:
  • Talk to your doctor
  • FULLY describe the activities that cause discomfort
  • FULLY describe the nature of the discomfort
  • Listen to what your doctor says and follow his/her recommendations
  • Make your peace with the fact that there are no guarantees
...or don't. That's what I would do if I wanted to address the problem in a way most likely to result in a positive outcome (which does not necessarily mean "no more pain ever"). What you do is up to you.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #49
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido future

I had a mild A/C seperation (~1cm) and it was fully 1 year before there was no pain. Keep up with the PT - particularly range of motion work.

Favoring one side for too long will set in some problems so work on strength and conditioning to restore balance on the "bad" side.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

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Old 03-18-2013, 11:47 AM   #50
Janet Rosen
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Re: Please help - got injured badly in aikido 2 days ago.worried I can't do aikido future

My mild AC separation from 1997 still bothers me in very cold damp weather to the degree I can't sleep on that side. Yes, I did let it heal well. Sometimes we have to live with consequences even when we minimize the risk of poor outcomes.

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