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Old 09-19-2012, 06:40 AM   #26
HL1978
Dojo: Aunkai
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

The mugai-ryu/nakamura-ryu guys in our dojo use foam covered bokkens and helmets and have all areas open as targets. They even have a 1 a year meeting where they don a different set of armor and use blunted blades.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INB1o...ure=plpp_video

Our kendo group regularly does isshu-jiai with our naginata group too. There are some places that will allow for tankendo too. Grappling still does exist in some dojos both in and outside japan, even if it is frowned upon by the AUSKF.

Chris, are you trying to connect and manipulate to your opponents center via the bokken? Like most kendoka, most of the cuts I see are strikes, which is fine depending on what exactly you are working on.

Last edited by HL1978 : 09-19-2012 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:57 AM   #27
HL1978
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

search toyama-ryu gekken and you can see some of the other equipment they use. I think it costs around $2,000 for a set so its not really feasible.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:51 AM   #28
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

Quote:
Lyle Laizure wrote: View Post
But you can really practice sword fighting, if that is what your goal was to do.
I really don't think you can. You could practice sword sparring, there are guys in the western martial arts community who do regular full contact steel sword sparring. But sword fighting doesn't really fit into our world now.

First off, no nonmilitary personnel living in a civilized country could sword fight for very long. The authorities would put them behind bars before they got much "practice" in. And while theoretically a modern soldier could possibly carry around his sword, and "practice" with it, it probably wouldn't go over too well. Sword fighting was something one could get good at (practice) only when using swords was a reasonable way to get something done- Keep the villages in line, collect taxes, storm the bad guys castle. Those days are over.

That leaves you with sword sparring. This either leads us to a sport practice, that is mostly only interested in itself. Or a contrived practice that may hopefully give us some small insight into what sword fighting was.

Quote:
Based on your other comments "sword fighting" isn't really your goal. And that is fine.
Yes, becoming a sword fighter isn't my goal, learning about Aikido is. So hopefully a sword sparring practice might give me some small insight into those aspects of Aikido.

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Old 09-19-2012, 12:58 PM   #29
Cliff Judge
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Sword fighting was something one could get good at (practice) only when using swords was a reasonable way to get something done- Keep the villages in line, collect taxes, storm the bad guys castle. Those days are over.

That leaves you with sword sparring. This either leads us to a sport practice, that is mostly only interested in itself. Or a contrived practice that may hopefully give us some small insight into what sword fighting was.
No human being ever tried to kill another armed man with a sword and considered it practice. No, not even Musashi,
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #30
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

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No human being ever tried to kill another armed man with a sword and considered it practice. No, not even Musashi,
Yet another reason you can't practice sword fighting...

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Old 09-19-2012, 03:01 PM   #31
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
But sword fighting doesn't really fit into our world now.
Sword fighting in and of itself may not "fit" into the world now but the skills it teaches, IMO, does.

[
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
First off, no nonmilitary personnel living in a civilized country could sword fight for very long. The authorities would put them behind bars before they got much "practice" in. And while theoretically a modern soldier could possibly carry around his sword, and "practice" with it, it probably wouldn't go over too well.
If done on the street in a non-structured venue absolutely. No different than a person taking their pistol and having target practice in their back yard or some random parking lot.

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
That leaves you with sword sparring. This either leads us to a sport practice, that is mostly only interested in itself. Or a contrived practice that may hopefully give us some small insight into what sword fighting was.
I could be off mistaken so someone with more knowledge please feel free to correct me. I would think that back when "sword fighting" was the preferred method of combat those combatants didn't just pick up their shiken and "practice" fighting with one another. I would imagine that they used bokken without armor. Just a guess on my part, I could be wrong.

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
becoming a sword fighter isn't my goal, learning about Aikido is. So hopefully a sword sparring practice might give me some small insight into those aspects of Aikido.
I agree that sword training will give some insight into aspects of Aikido, if it is trained properly.

Lyle Laizure
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:35 PM   #32
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

I understand where you are going. But I am very careful about confusing training and doing. I did lot's of training, believing I was learning to "do" something. Turns out that I still had to "do" it in order to be good at it.

I wouldn't delude myself into believing I was becoming a good sword fighter by simply training in a sword system. Lot's of people who have done extensive firearms training will tell you that the first time they got in a gunfight everything was different. And While it's true, some will say that their training kept them cooler under pressure- you just don't know until you've done it. I've never been in a sword fight.

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Old 09-21-2012, 04:30 AM   #33
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I understand where you are going. But I am very careful about confusing training and doing. I did lot's of training, believing I was learning to "do" something. Turns out that I still had to "do" it in order to be good at it.

I wouldn't delude myself into believing I was becoming a good sword fighter by simply training in a sword system. Lot's of people who have done extensive firearms training will tell you that the first time they got in a gunfight everything was different. And While it's true, some will say that their training kept them cooler under pressure- you just don't know until you've done it. I've never been in a sword fight.
I have no dilusions as you have described. I agree there is a major difference between training and doing.

Lyle Laizure
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Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:01 AM   #34
Cliff Judge
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Re: Bokken Sparring- Chushin Tani Aikidojo

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I understand where you are going. But I am very careful about confusing training and doing. I did lot's of training, believing I was learning to "do" something. Turns out that I still had to "do" it in order to be good at it.

I wouldn't delude myself into believing I was becoming a good sword fighter by simply training in a sword system. Lot's of people who have done extensive firearms training will tell you that the first time they got in a gunfight everything was different. And While it's true, some will say that their training kept them cooler under pressure- you just don't know until you've done it. I've never been in a sword fight.
Training in a sword system is not supposed to make someone a "good sword fighter," it is meant to give someone a better than even chance of surviving a sword fight.
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