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Old 10-12-2002, 09:59 AM   #101
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
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Re: what's wrong with this picture?

Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
That's great! Where's the aikido? ?

Anyway, this isn't the fitness thread -- it's the FAT thread.

It's not about people who are naturally large, have a medical or genetic problem -- it's about people who eat and drink too much, never take ukemi, but feel content that they can take ONE forward roll without breathing hard. It's not about cultural biases -- another smokescreen to the root problem.

Someday, there will be a perfect storm for someone (AC broke, high heat and humidity, too much caffine, add a little stress) and KABOOM!!! A heart attack or stroke.

There's also a question as to whether such instructors are good role models for youth.

The solution resides in ditching the excusses and getting out of denial, changing the diet, and adding exercise (ideally aerobic) to start burning calories.

Once again, the issue here is FAT, and how to get rid of it. Discussions on FITNESS should be on a new thread.

I'm bored with smokescreens. I would be interested to hear about some constructive solutions, such as diets that work, calorie ratios, etc.
Mike - it's good, I guess, you are concerned about others, but the problem that may people have with your writings is that you seem to be biased towards heavy folks PERIOD. I know you say it's not about people with "genetic" problems, but I get the feeling that if you see a heavy instructor, you will automatically assume they are gluttonous and not in control of themselves. How do you KNOW it is not genetic when you first see a heavy person ? You seem to assume the worst without getting to know them.

In general, this comment is for everyone, let people be - if they are fat, they know it and know what they need to do. Heavy folks don't need people preaching to them about what they need to do.
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Old 10-12-2002, 10:21 AM   #102
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
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ass u me

Quote:
I get the feeling that if you see a heavy instructor, you will automatically assume they are gluttonous and not in control of themselves.
That would be your error, not mine. Why would you ASSUME that I would make a snap judgement about anything? Based on what???
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Old 10-12-2002, 10:55 AM   #103
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
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Re: ass u me

Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
That would be your error, not mine. Why would you ASSUME that I would make a snap judgement about anything? Based on what???
Your writings:
Quote:
"...Fat is hard to justify unless one is in denial.
Quote:
"...I suggest that anyone who is overweight consider this fact, avoid going into denial, and try to lose some weight."
Quote:
"...It's also a bad example for younger students to see a vastly overweight sensei. MA instructors should be an example of self discipline, not gluttony."
Quote:
"...it sends the wrong message to younger students...."
Quote:
"...Yes, I'm biased against teachers who provide a poor example to their students for no apparent reason other than that those teachers eat and drink too much and are vastly overweight."
MY QUESTION IS, MIKE, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE REASON WITHOUT NOT MAKING AN ASSUMPTION RIGHT OFF THA BAT ? YOU HAVE TO GET TO KNOW THE PERSON.

More quotes:
Quote:
"...I am accepting of many kinds of people, just not unnecessarily obese 'MA teachers.'"
Quote:
"...Ever wonder why so many overweight people are drawn to this thread, only to defend fat with extreme vehemence rather than admit their problem?
Just let it go - people are overweight - accept it, and why don't you just focus on your need to lose the 15 pounds you said you needed to lose and let people be. Or are you relying on your "put-downs" of others to function as some sort of incentive for you ?

This thread should be closed, as it has run its course.

Last edited by Hogan : 10-12-2002 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 10-12-2002, 11:27 AM   #104
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
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Freaky! endless assumptions

Quote:
MY QUESTION IS, MIKE, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE REASON WITHOUT NOT MAKING AN ASSUMPTION RIGHT OFF THA BAT ? YOU HAVE TO GET TO KNOW THE PERSON.
What person?

If you don't like this thread, DON'T COME HERE.
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Old 10-12-2002, 12:06 PM   #105
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
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My ears hurt. Only six posts since Jun asked people to calm down...?
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Old 10-12-2002, 12:20 PM   #106
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
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"BMI is based on outdated statistics. AFAIK it doesn't take into account somatotypes"

The Body Mass Index is indeed useful in assessing the degree of obesity in persons over a certain percentage body fat - when skinfold measurement is no longer accurate. Where it fails is with individuals who are closer to normal range, especially those involved in strength-intensive sports who carry greater than normal lean mass.

'Somatotypes' are pseudoscientific nonsense. The theory was originally psychological in nature - developed by a man named William Sheldon almost a century ago, and was originally intended as a personality types indicator - like phrenology or palmistry. While it may seem to have some intuitive descriptive utility, it is crude, unscientific, and worse than useless, in my opinion.

In general, I'm having a hard time following these rants on 'fitness', which encompass everything from resting heart rate to how compassionate one is to one's fellows. I don't think it's that complicated.

Fitness is a meaningless concept without a qualifier. Fitness means something along the lines of "capable of doing ______". If there's nothing in the blank, it's empty - like an adjective with no noun. So if you want to talk about fitness for Aikido, or running marathons, or whatever, there's something to talk about.

I think the confusion arises from thinking fitness is connected with health. While getting fit to do any number of athletic things can contribute to health up to a point, there is no necessary correlation. Many top level athletes are not particularly healthy, especially since many take performance enhancing drugs, push their bodies to such extremes that the functional life of many mechanical structures are shortened, and eat strange diets high in processed supplements and deficient in many long-term disease protective nutrients.

If you want to define health, that may well be a broad ranging discussion including almost every aspect of life, but fitness is fairly circumsribed.

Kevin Wilbanks, CSCS
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Old 10-13-2002, 10:59 AM   #107
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
what would Bruce Lee think?

From the news wires:

afp, HONG KONG (excerpts)

Flabby Hong Kongers have been urged to kick their fast food addictions in favour of conventional Chinese diets and head for the nearest gym amid a grim warning that many face "alarmingly high" risks of heart disease.

Image conscious women lacking the willpower to commit to a fitness and diet regime, were also warned that popping slimming pills was a risky and inadequate substitute for half an hour exercise a day in the struggle to win the battle of the bulge.

A recent report by the Chinese University revealed an "alarmingly high" number of middle-aged Kong Kong people were at high risk of coronary heart diseases.

Some 40 percent of 316 men and women respondents, aged 45 on average, were obese while 71 percent of those interviewed did not exercise enough.

Dr Neil Thomas from the Chinese University's Department of Medicine and Therapeutics, the co-author of the report, noted the switch from traditional food to fried fast food takeouts was the main culprit behind wider waistlines among once bamboo-shoot thin Chinese men and women.

"The traditional Chinese diet was very healthy consisting of steamed rice and vegetables -- a very low calorie, low fat diet -- and meat was eaten very rarely," he said.

"What we need to do is get back to that balanced diet and that means not eating at fast food restaurants on a daily basis."

Some 70 percent of male and 40 percent of female respondents had two or more heart disease risk factors, far worse than the 12 and 8 percent recorded for men and women respectively in a 1995 study, the report found.

Poor diets combined with sedentary lifestyles and lack of exercise were contributing to the earlier occurrence of obesity, heart disease and diabetes, he said.

"Obesity never used to occur until (age) 30 or 40 and heart diseases at 50 or 60. However, there are now teenagers suffering from diabetes and more kids are obese.

"That will bring forward the whole spectrum of diseases suffered and mean a larger proportion of the population are dying at a young age."

Growing numbers of obese people is not simply a Hong Kong phenomenon.

A report released by researchers in the United States last week found more than 30 percent of Americans suffered from the problem while it is estimated China could wind up having 200 million obese people over the next decade.

Experts from the International Obesity Task Force estimate that close to 1 billion people worldwide are overweight or suffering from obesity, and the number was growing.

They said there were currently 280 million obese people -- 30 percent or more overweight -- and some 700 million people who are overweight.
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