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Old 05-01-2012, 02:03 AM   #101
Chris Li
 
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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James Sawers wrote: View Post
I believe that studying Aikido is a requirement for Tokyo police officers......enough said.

In Good Practice...

Jim

www.nothing-works.com
Not Aikikai Aikido

Anyway, so is Kendo - your point is?

Best,

Chris

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Old 05-01-2012, 06:46 AM   #102
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Don't waste your time responding to a five-year-old comment in a six-year-old thread?
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:22 AM   #103
Walter Martindale
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Don't waste your time responding to a five-year-old comment in a six-year-old thread?
ZOMBIE THREAD

BRAINS!!!
BRAINS!!!

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Old 05-02-2012, 03:57 AM   #104
reyne caritativo
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

i believe that all techniques in any martial art system have weaknesses and flaws, and can be countered. the most important thing in a real-life fighting situation is not to panic and not lose your cool. if you do so, you'll be in a deep s$#t especially in a life threatening situation.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:27 PM   #105
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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Khaled Abdullah wrote: View Post
Hi every 1

1 “Aikido doesn’t require fitness so most aikido players are old, fat and not strong enough”
2 “ you can not attack in aikido you just receiving and waiting what the attackers will do”
3 “ many aikido techniques depend on grabbing which is rarely happen in real fights”
4 “ aikido focuses on hands to applying its techniques and ignores the rest of the body, no kicks no punches no jumping”
5 “ aikido is only good for seminars and demonstrations”
6 “ aikido is too traditional, no body use sword in our world today”
7 “ aikido is a philosophy more than a combat way”
8 etc……
1) true in the sense most aikidokas don't feel that need (wrongly). However athletical fitness is something that ought to be pursued independently of your art and even sport of election. If you run 100mt, you still need to go to a gym in order to have those biceps and deltoids... which are not used for running... If you want Mike Tyson shoulders, boxing alone is not enough (compare Clay's muscles with Tyson's... same sport different athletical preparations).

2) true. Yet as far as fighting is concerned, there is nothing wrong with it: you get attacked, you react in a manner that is supposed to neutralize the attack - and if such a manner does the promised job without punching back, what's the problem with that? The really wrong part with it is that, being so, ukes (those who simulate attacks) are a piece of cake to say the least... the real critic here should have sounded: all aikido ukes attack using only one arm... they have only one... oh and they can't turn on their hips... oh and cannot jump on their toes... oh and are pretty slow... oh and they have a regrettable tendency to lose their balance because of a mere whisper... it's like fighting with an attacker who suffers a severe form of arthritis...

3) true. In a real situation a guy who, in order to beat you, grabs your wrist is so rare to be a blue herring, and if for some funny reason a guy who knows how to fight grabs your wrist, a punch in your face will follow at light speed (with the second arm... real attackers have two arms, for some funny reason I cannot fathom) - you won't be able to place even the ghost of a nikkyo on that...
As for grappling, instead it is very common from incompetent attackers.

4) true. However the whole point with aikido is to seize one of your arms - if nage manages to do that, the fight is over.

5) true. We see endless "demonstrations" that, actually, are only fabrications to hide the fact that if the attack wouldn't have been "demonstrative", most nages would have not known what to do with it.

6) False. It is not older than many other arts. It is true that no one uses swords, however guys still use sticks...

7) False. It is a only philosophy if those who teach it don't use it for combative purposes.

8) Very true: it is that etc which is most true in fact.

Keep in mind that also many Karate guys from our suburban dojos, black belts, would do very very poorly in a MMA match.

The only way to fight well is to fight against ruthless opponents often. There is no other road and unfortunately no dojos, aikido or whatever, will ever let you train that way.
You could easily cast the same objections at many other arts. It is that etc which is true: it all depends on how you practice.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #106
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

what the hack... this thread is not exactly recent....
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:14 AM   #107
Chris Evans
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Blush! old karate (Okinawan) vs. new karate (Japanese)

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Hi Khaled,

Honestly, Khaled, that's a tough question to answer. It is all about perception. I started doing karate when I was 14 years old, aikido when I was 36 and this is 12th year in aikido. I have been always been active in karate and only given up teaching 2 years ago: I wasn't convinced that my chief instructor had gained enlightenment to re-invent karate his way.

A hundred years ago karate was a complete art meaning it had grappling, throws and ground fighting beside the hand strikes and kicks but all that changed after the art was introduced into the public school system - it was "water-downed" to make it safe for school children (same for TKD which was a Korean re-invention of JKA style karate). 34 years ago, I thought I have picked the complete art but the only thing missing is a "complete" teacher.

So who are these "martial artists" who only trained in one art?

Peace be with you.

David Y
Karate did evolve to a more specialized way with less seizing, grappling, skills.

Non-wushu Shaolin influenced kung fu seems to retain grabbing and joint locks.

Here are some budo thoughts...

"The karate that has been introduced to Tokyo is actually a single part of a larger whole. The fact that those who have learned karate in Tokyo think that it consists only of hand strikes and kicks, and that throws and joint locks are only a part of jujutsu or judo can only be attributed to their lack of awareness on this art. " - Kenwa Mabuni, ca 1925,

In 1924, Kenwa Mabuni and Chojun Miyagi, were asked to take charge of the training sessions, even though they were still fairly young. During these sessions, actual kumite was stressed to increase their physical techniques and strength. It is said that, when a student wanted to learn more from a master, the master would simply invite the student to attack him freely, all the while, blocking and shifting his body while constantly asking the student, "Now, do you understand?" and encouraging them to attack, again and again.

"Conditioning is the greatest hold," and “…A man who neglects gym work is a man who is off balance and without the greatest weapon he can have …--conditioning, " said Karl Gotch, judoka.


The conclusion is that the problem is not aikido or karate, but the advanced karateka or aikidoka and the sensei who loses, or never gain, the martial ("killer*") spirit for sake of the convenient or the "art-ness". In the modern dojo, with all its costs and liability risks, budo must be water-downed to retain a wider range of fee paying students. The challenge is finding a dojo/gym that's alive with sensei (plural) that can also retain advanced karateka or aikidoka who relish punishing, practical, yet compassionate training. *One must be able to have the mindset to kill or be killed, when that's right, into order to cherish and save life.

Osu

Last edited by Chris Evans : 08-20-2012 at 08:22 AM.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:45 AM   #108
Chris Evans
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Wink Re: Don't waste your time practicing WEAK AIKIDO

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Alberto Italiano wrote: View Post
1) true in the sense most aikidokas don't feel that need (wrongly). However athletical fitness is something that ought to be pursued independently of your art and even sport of election. If you run 100mt, you still need to go to a gym in order to have those biceps and deltoids... which are not used for running... If you want Mike Tyson shoulders, boxing alone is not enough (compare Clay's muscles with Tyson's... same sport different athletical preparations).

2) true. Yet as far as fighting is concerned, there is nothing wrong with it: you get attacked, you react in a manner that is supposed to neutralize the attack - and if such a manner does the promised job without punching back, what's the problem with that? The really wrong part with it is that, being so, ukes (those who simulate attacks) are a piece of cake to say the least... the real critic here should have sounded: all aikido ukes attack using only one arm... they have only one... oh and they can't turn on their hips... oh and cannot jump on their toes... oh and are pretty slow... oh and they have a regrettable tendency to lose their balance because of a mere whisper... it's like fighting with an attacker who suffers a severe form of arthritis...

3) true. In a real situation a guy who, in order to beat you, grabs your wrist is so rare to be a blue herring, and if for some funny reason a guy who knows how to fight grabs your wrist, a punch in your face will follow at light speed (with the second arm... real attackers have two arms, for some funny reason I cannot fathom) - you won't be able to place even the ghost of a nikkyo on that...
As for grappling, instead it is very common from incompetent attackers.

4) true. However the whole point with aikido is to seize one of your arms - if nage manages to do that, the fight is over.

5) true. We see endless "demonstrations" that, actually, are only fabrications to hide the fact that if the attack wouldn't have been "demonstrative", most nages would have not known what to do with it.

6) False. It is not older than many other arts. It is true that no one uses swords, however guys still use sticks...

7) False. It is a only philosophy if those who teach it don't use it for combative purposes.

8) Very true: it is that etc which is most true in fact.

Keep in mind that also many Karate guys from our suburban dojos, black belts, would do very very poorly in a MMA match.

The only way to fight well is to fight against ruthless opponents often. There is no other road and unfortunately no dojos, aikido or whatever, will ever let you train that way.
You could easily cast the same objections at many other arts. It is that etc which is true: it all depends on how you practice.
True!...

Keep in mind that also many Karate guys from our suburban dojos, black belts, would do very very poorly in a MMA match.

The only way to fight well is to fight against ruthless opponents often. There is no other road and unfortunately no dojos, aikido or whatever, will ever let you train that way.
You could easily cast the same objections at many other arts. It is that etc which is true: it all depends on how you practice


One karate dojo and another can do vastly different: I know, as I get to train at two karate dojo. If I had to limit to one, i'll choose the karate dojo that always practices on the mat, where I've had to pick myself up, limping from those leg-kicks (from gedan mawashi geri).

Osu

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:17 AM   #109
Chris Evans
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Dieter Haffner wrote: View Post
Some people waste their time watching television.
Some people waste their time collecting stamps.
...
Some people waste their time practicing aikido.
...
Some people waste their time playing football.
Some people waste their time reading this board.

As long as we have fun.
hah hah, well said.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:30 PM   #110
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I disagree with every single generalization that was made. You can be fat, but it is not advisable. I can find fat practioners in every art. Other than that, I won't do a point by point counter!

Agree with Jo's statement above!
Interestingly enough, I've seen students leave our Aikido school to try out other martial arts. For example a fella left for a few months and was training in some standing jujitsu and some southern style form of karate(forget the exact name of it). He came back to visit and train with us, because we keep friendly with everyone who walks in our doors mostly, and he was sweating his butt off, needing to take breaks in the middle of training. He said, "I forgot how much Aikido takes out of you! Practicing at my other dojo I'd barely ever wash my gi because I'd rarely sweat, but at this dojo I'm soaked!"

Fat or nonathletic... it really depends on the dojo. You can practice Aikido I think in a way that is low key... or you can throw down with the young bucks and get yourself some a dang good work out. Ukemi forms to fit the nage in my opinion. Most of my school's ukemi style actually requires a fair deal of flexibility, agility and cardio training to pull off... that's what the nage requires from their uke though in my school. It is different everywhere. Generalizations suck!

MM
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:33 PM   #111
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

wait this is a zombie thread >_< foiled again!

MM
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:37 PM   #112
Chris Evans
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Evil Eyes Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
wait this is a zombie thread >_< foiled again!
a phoenix thread discussing never ending truths. good stuff.

Last edited by Chris Evans : 08-20-2012 at 01:40 PM.

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:41 PM   #113
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
wait this is a zombie thread >_< foiled again!
And u quoted me....I don't even remember when I wrote that!

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Old 08-21-2012, 02:12 PM   #114
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

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And u quoted me....I don't even remember when I wrote that!
ARGG!

MM
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:26 PM   #115
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

I think it's really easy to say Aikido doesn't work when you're not thinking. If you actually think about it, how can Aikido have so many federations and organizations around the world? How? Because people have used it in real situations. I just finished reading somewhere on the web that high caliber Judo practitioners from the time of O'Sensei switched-over to Aikido because they couldn't defeat the advanced Aikido practitioners. Even Jigoro Kano said to O'Sensei "This is Budo".
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:39 PM   #116
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

I've read this whole thing, and realize that's it's years old. But, I have to chime in, if only because it seems every time I read something about Aikido online, it soon follows with someone saying it has no practical use. In fact, the main reason I shied away from Aikido for years was that an early instructor in my MA "career" (if you can call it that) said Aikido is "good for kids" but "no good for self-defense." So, consider this post directed to anyone trying to sort this out in the present or future. Anyway, I am now a newbie to Aikido and have to say how bogus I feel these statements to be. Here's why.

First, exactly how often are people finding themselves in street fights? And, why? In my life I have been in a few scuffles and have witnessed a few more. The best defense is to not put yourself in situations where fights will happen, and to have the strength of character to associate with the right people, and to not associate with people who will get you into fights. Aikido probably has as much or more to offer in terms of strength of character than most MAs. Arguably, age is the best tool for this. But, Aikido practioners, on the whole, I've found to be more grounded and mature people than I've met in the numerous other arts I've studied (various Kung Fu, Jujitsu, and American Kenpo). Of course there are exceptions, so this is only my experience and my general observation. No offense meant to anyone.

Second, have the people saying these things actually been in a street fight? I have. They are usually sloppy, ugly, and fueled by alcohol or drugs. Most of the time, they amount to pushing and shoving and maybe an obvious haymaker. Any martial art can help you defend against this type of "attack," but Aikido seems to me to be as good as any in dealing with this nonsense. I have yet to meet a truly skilled martial artist who goes around looking for people to beat up. I guess I've not run in the same circles as Mike Tyson.

Third, let's say you do get in a fight and you decide to use your karate or kung fu to really mess someone up. You break their arm or leg, or tear out an eye. This may have been fine in some pre-agrarian society or somesuch, but in civilized society, you are likely to find yourself on the receiving end of criminal or civil charges. You may end up in jail. So, which art is the most "practical" for modern, civil society? Again, Aikido makes sense to me (and is probably why it's taught to police).

Fourth, the primary threat that I concern myself with, and which seems to me to be the most germane to our times, is the threat of knife or gun violence in a robbery or rape type situation. Against a knife, your best bet is to run if you can, and if not, a swift kick to the nuts or a well-timed eye gouge. In other words, basic self-defense, not martial arts. Now, some MAs, particularly the Kenpo I took, do emphasize nut kicking and eye gouging. That said, you can easily train yourself to kick groins or poke eyeballs in your own home. It's not really an art, you know? If you do want to get fancy, I think Aikido has good disarming techniques. As for guns, your best bet is to throw your wallet and run. If the attack is about something else (like rape), then disarming is your best bet. I've never seen a gun disarming technique that will work 100% of the time. In fact, I'd say it's always a less than 50/50 proposition, but if it's all you've got, then I guess that's what you've got to do. Again, Aikido has some of the best techniques for this, IMO, matched only by Japanese Jujitsu (which, obviously, is related to Aikido). Get out of the line of fire, lock up the hand with the gun, and separate it from the attacker.

Fifth, fun. Personally, I think rolling around and being slammed to the mat is the most fun. It's also good exercise. Maybe all don't agree with that, which is fine. Do what you find to be fun.

Sixth, as a side benefit of all this rolling and slamming, I find that Aikido provides some measure of what's it's like to take a real hit without armor or padding. The only other arts where I've seen this are traditional Okinawan karate schools where they do body conditioning hits. Again, to each his own.

Seventh, time and again I read people saying that fights go to the ground. In my experience this is nonsense. I've witnessed a few skirmishes and fights, and only one went to the ground. And that was because both guys were basically small pretty boys who didn't want to get hit. Ground grappling is great for competition, but in a real situation, there's a good chance your opponent's friend(s) is going to kick you in the head or neck, or maybe stab you while you're down. Again, Aikido makes sense to me here - throw them to the ground or hold them there while you maintain your upright and alert position.

Really, though, fights are not that common, in my experience, and can be largely (and best) avoided if you are a strong enough person to stay out of situations where they occur. With the rest, Aikido is as good as anything (though, like all, not perfect), and IMO, more fun to practice. Again, to each his/her own. So, yeah, do what you enjoy doing! Anything is better than nothing, and none are fool-proof.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:17 AM   #117
Michael Neal
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

"Every martial art is good at what it was created for" Lloyd Irvin

Lloyd Irvin Interview-Sport BJJ vs. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Self Defense vs Martial Arts, The Reality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTdnUI9DxM

Listen to this story about how BJJ did nothing to help him against home invaders with guns.

I think this is brilliant actually, it is the key to the whole "my style is better than yours" argument. Aikido is great at what it was created for, modified from the battlefield art of jujutsu involving swords and weapons and open hand techniques versus swords and weapons. It can also be used again committed open hand attacks as well but Aikido excels at avoiding mutiple attackers and defending against weapons, if it is trained for this purpose, not simply spirituality and harmony.

That is where it developed and where it excels, it will never be BJJ, wrestling, muay thai or something else.

Is Aikido the best art for a one on one fight in a ring, probably not. Is BJJ the best art for street fights with mutiple participants who may or may not have weapons, probably not.

Lets just be real and stop bashing other arts, they are alll great at what they do and what they were developed to deal with if trained well and properly for real defense.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:02 PM   #118
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

I like Lloyd Irvin's supposition...Unfortunately, Mr. Irvin appears to be unaware of Ameridote. Best of all, worst of none...

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:38 PM   #119
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Andy Kazama wrote: View Post
I like Lloyd Irvin's supposition...Unfortunately, Mr. Irvin appears to be unaware of Ameridote. Best of all, worst of none...
You can tell he is no master ... no mullet.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:50 PM   #120
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Ameri-Do-Te. the best of all martial arts. Tell Master Ken I said hi next time you see him.

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Old 08-28-2012, 05:37 PM   #121
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

I'll be sure to do that...from across the street

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Old 08-30-2012, 07:41 AM   #122
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Just to add my two pennies worth, for my next grading I have to demonstrate knife defence techniques. For the last couple of weeks I've been working on them in preparation and as this is the first serious training I've done with knives (tantos naturally) it has given me a new found respect for just how dangerous knife attacks are. Now I know knife attacks are dangerous and would never like to find myself in that situation, but one of the reasons I love Aiki-Jujutsu so much is because it deals with self-defence situations and tries to find realistic solutions. My sensei expects me to be able to respond to any of the potential knife attacks I will get in the grading without thinking, just to respond naturally and instinctively. This will require much practice but it is good to train in this way, to be able to test yourself and see what you are capable of. My problem is that I am still thinking too much when the attack comes into me, I want to just adapt my kata to the situation but when you realize that you will only have one chance in a knife attack situation, realistically speaking, you realize just how narrow the margin for error is. This is incredibly valuable for self-defence and gives you wisdom to know the best self-defence is avoidance completely. It really does help you grow in character and wisdom as well as giving you techniques and training in how to respond in threatening and dangerous situations.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:44 AM   #123
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Re: Don’t waste your time practicing AIKIDO

from what i hear, the two most effective styles that most people know about are krav maga and aikido. that's what i heard and i believe it because of my gut and not through experience so that's just me. they're completely opposite styles but once learned they're tough to beat.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:18 AM   #124
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Clementino Gisondi wrote: View Post
from what i hear, the two most effective styles that most people know about are krav maga and aikido. that's what i heard and i believe it because of my gut and not through experience so that's just me. they're completely opposite styles but once learned they're tough to beat.
i thought the two most effective styles were Smith and Wesson or was that Keckler and Koch?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:54 AM   #125
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Re: Don't waste your time practicing AIKIDO

Quote:
Clementino Gisondi wrote: View Post
from what i hear, the two most effective styles that most people know about are krav maga and aikido. that's what i heard and i believe it because of my gut and not through experience so that's just me. they're completely opposite styles but once learned they're tough to beat.
Nah...i've pretty much crushed the dreams and illusions of both KM and Aikido folks that fight strictly from those paradigms, pretty much any paradigm I've been able to defeat most when I can control the conditions of the fight, which I have gotten pretty good at doing over the years. Hard to explain, but once you understand the secret of how to do it, then you can lay waste to most anyone of any style.

that does not mean these methodologies suck or anything, just that you understand the dynamics of fighitng better.

that and if you spend anytime with Master Ken in Amer-do-te...well then you realize that all other martial arts are Bullshit anyway.

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