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Old 07-12-2009, 09:45 AM   #151
Craig Allen Jr
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Quote:
Philippe Willaume wrote: View Post
Well, I am of a different opinion
Learning aikido to know how to fight is as valid as learning aikido for the spiritual side. In fact it is not mutually exclusive; I would even argue that you need one to get the other.
Phil
I'm with you on the latter half of your statement. I agree that one needs to recognize the destructive potential of the art before he/she can understand the choice of less destructive alternatives.

However, as Aikido is most commonly practiced- as budo vice bujutsu- the combat roots of the art are not given as much emphasis as the exchange of energy and spiritual forging. That's not to say they are neglected entirely, not at all, but the end goal of the art is not killing an opponent on a battlefield as was the case with some of Aikido's "parent" arts. Donn Draeger does a much better job of explaining the difference between the two approaches than I can here.

Aikido is a very effective martial art at the higher levels. I'd say it takes much longer to get to the level where one is proficient enough in it to use it effectively than other arts because it requires developing a great deal of subtlety and perception. That's why I still maintain that if winning fights is your real purpose for studying a martial art, look into easier, more effective self defense options. Japan learned 400 years ago that peasant ashigaru equipped with firearms could defeat the most skilled classical warriors fighting with sword and bow. That does not mean that continuing to practice the classical arts has no value, quite the contrary, only that focusing entirely on the "combat effectiveness" of martial arts is no longer the fundamental criterion for weighing their value as perhaps it once was.

Craig
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:20 AM   #152
mwpowell
 
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I think what makes Aikido Aikido and not something else is that it was quite consciously designed as a practice that embodied ideals that would make ones life and even ones world better. O-Sensei talked about this all the time. Yet everyone wants to discuss fighting and self defense all the time.

What is "real world" conflict? It's your boss telling you that you've lost your job. It's your spouse telling you she wants a divorce. It's your teen getting in trouble with the law. It's your baby having a seizure and you think it may be dying. It's a co-worker who seems out to sabotage you at the workplace. "I'm sorry, you have cancer."

Every day we meet innumerable conflicts. Many people do not handle them well. In fact, many people go through life as the cause of conflict.

[...snip..]

Aikido training should be about attaining some sort of interior balance which allows us to be centered and non-reactive to the conflicts of daily life. Aikido should be about not contributing to the cycle of delusion which causes so much pain and suffering. It should be about leaving the world a better place than it was when you arrived.
I think you've really nailed it here, George. I've only been doing aikido for about 15 months, but I'm already seeing changes in the way I approach every-day "conflict". I've yet to be involved in a physical altercation, but work-place and mental / emotional conflicts are (unfortunately) an every-day occurrence.

Since starting aikido training, I find that I no longer clash head-on with someone who disagrees with me, or is "attacking" me. Rather, I step off the line of attack, blend, and redirect. I've discovered that my ability to influence outcomes has improved significantly. More importantly, I am able to achieve my desired outcomes more often, and without embarrassment or humiliation of either myself or others.

As a result, I've become more effective in my job, more likable in my personal life, and my stress levels are significantly lower. It may not be physical aikido, but I do believe it is the every-day application of the principles of aiki.

Be willing to give up all that you now are, to be all that you can become.
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Old 07-12-2009, 07:05 PM   #153
wideawakedreamer
 
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Ledyard Sensei, why is it that you don't have your own column? I don't think I ever get tired of reading your posts. Namaste. _/|\_

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
One of the things I see in these discussions is that the folks who really think Aikido is about something else than fighting, largely opt out. I wish they wouldn't because it would balance things out on the forums a bit more. I constantly meet people who never post but tell me they really like what I post.

Anyway, why is it that whenever we talk about the "real world", we seem to be talking about some form of street combat? Most people will never use an Aikido technique for self defense in their entire lives. I would maintain that, for most people, physical conflict is about as "unreal" as it gets.

I think what makes Aikido Aikido and not something else is that it was quite consciously designed as a practice that embodied ideals that would make ones life and even ones world better. O-Sensei talked about this all the time. Yet everyone wants to discuss fighting and self defense all the time.

What is "real world" conflict? It's your boss telling you that you've lost your job. It's your spouse telling you she wants a divorce. It's your teen getting in trouble with the law. It's your baby having a seizure and you think it may be dying. It's a co-worker who seems out to sabotage you at the workplace. "I'm sorry, you have cancer."

Every day we meet innumerable conflicts. Many people do not handle them well. In fact, many people go through life as the cause of conflict.

Are we striving for an art which focuses on defeating some, as yet unmet, enemy? Are we really training for that one moment in our lives when we are confronted with an actual attacker who intends to harm us physically? If we are law enforcement or military, I say yes, we are training for that. If we live somewhere extremely dangerous and violence is commonplace, perhaps we need to make this our focus. It's simply a matter of survival.

But Aikido isn't for that. Saotome Sensei always said that if your primary worry is physical safety, buy a gun. "Real" fighting is about weapons. It has been this way since the cave man. Unarmed fighting is about sport, for the most part.

Aikido training should be about attaining some sort of interior balance which allows us to be centered and non-reactive to the conflicts of daily life. Aikido should be about not contributing to the cycle of delusion which causes so much pain and suffering. It should be about leaving the world a better place than it was when you arrived.

Yes, the training has a martial paradigm. But it is meant to go far beyond limited notions of winning and losing. What are the implications of really trying to understand O-Sensei's statement that "there is no attacker?" You want hard training? Make that your goal. Fighting is easy by comparison. It is really the human default setting. Millions of people fight. Hundreds of thousands get competent. Thousands attain some high level of mastery. But only a handful attain the kind of level of understanding which goes beyond all that. O-Sensei was one. He founded our art. I think we need to remind ourselves why he did so. I do not think it had anything at all to do with fighting or self defense. Those skills might be a by product of proper training but one misses the essence of that is the focus.

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Old 07-12-2009, 08:17 PM   #154
Anjisan
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I am certainly in favor of all of the many metaphorical ways that one can use Aikido for. For instance, in my MS program Aikido was used as a primary prism through which we discussed psychotherapy. Also, Aiki Extentions is a means to deliever very positive energy to sick world.

However, any of these other applications may not have the opportunity to be consistently appplied if one does not first make sure one is upright an breathing. In my humble opinion, if one wants to be the keeper of the peace one must be able to stop the war. Saotome sensei spoke of "Stopping the Spear" in his book Aikido and the Harmony of Nature. To me it is like a heirchy of needs with physical safety being a very basic need and at the bottom of the pyrimid.

If one is going to put all the effort into becoming a better human being, would not part of that enlighted state include having a least a shot a perserving or establishing the peace? It seems to me that O Sensei, first delt with this and then evolved to a more philoposhical approach. It seems that some Aikidoka desire to skip these earlier levels. If one doestn't confront the violence both within oneself and without I don't know if one arrives in the same place.
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:52 PM   #155
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

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Rafael Ayala wrote: View Post
Ledyard Sensei, why is it that you don't have your own column? I don't think I ever get tired of reading your posts. Namaste. _/|\_
Thanks so much, but I did have a column... Articles are more formal, just look at the quality of Peter's columns. I got to the point at which I didn't have anything to say which I hadn't more less said already. So I took time away.

Now i find that Blogging is easier.. I don't feel things have to be so formal. And I still get stirred to respond by certain threads. So I am posting again, which I like to do. Also, I want to do what I can to support Jun's site; he's been so supportive of me. This works betterfor me right now.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:21 PM   #156
Patrick Crane
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
It won't happen unless you want it. Almost to the exclusion of everything else. If you don't have a burning desire for mastery, it will never happen. Leaving it up to "it will happen if it needs to" is simply guaranteeing it won't.
Well, I think is comes down to personality. I know for my personality spirituality is a big waste of time; and "wanting" (seeking, trying) it would be an even bigger waste of time.
When I get to the point of expressing myself as an artist, that's gonna be about it for me.
If i "wanted" to find aiki-sprituality because I thought I was supposed to or because Ueshiba did, it would just be a pretence anyway.

For others with different personalities, spirituality might be a great pursuit, or even the only viable pursuit. Especially once "mastery" has been achieved. It would answer the question "what next."
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:48 PM   #157
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Spirituality I believe is found, sought, and weighted in many different ways. Some feel they need to have a very literal and direct connection to it.

I personally consider myself a fairly spiritual person, but do not have a high affinity for "shirt sleeve" or overt spirituality.

For me, I find it through hard and serious training and experiences.

A recent example is my experiences within yoga. I have avoided yoga for many years cause I found it simply too overt and way too "overbaked" for my liking. I am not a big "open your heart, smell the flowers" kind of person.

Well, I have recently discovered Bikram yoga which works for me. The practice of 90 minutes in a hot room sweating and working hard and serious...works for me.

As I become more in tune and touch with myself and reach what I call a "true" understanding of the physical nature of my body and mind, well the spirituality follows.

I do agree, that chasing it (for me at least) is the best way to not find it.

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Old 07-18-2009, 09:15 AM   #158
Josh Astridge
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

one statement I see a lot is

oh man aikido sucks, why aren't there any 'aikido used in streets' videos. blah blah blah.

There aren't any videos of Aikido being used in the streets?
good.
That's how it's supposed to be.

Aikido isn't about wandering around and beating people to a pulp.
Aikido isn't about breaking someone's arm.

Aikido is about bringing peaceful resolution through harmony of Ki (my thoughts).

some punk in the street is high on crack and wants to get past you any way he can. ok. simply step to the side and 'help him on his journey'.

Aikido is as effective as it needs to be.
What are the chances that someone who's experienced in Karate or something is going to beat you? It's against their code, as is deliberately fighting for Aikido.

my thoughts (probably completely incorrect but oh well)
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:42 AM   #159
Anjisan
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Wink Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Quote:
Josh Astridge wrote: View Post
one statement I see a lot is

oh man aikido sucks, why aren't there any 'aikido used in streets' videos. blah blah blah.

There aren't any videos of Aikido being used in the streets?
good.
That's how it's supposed to be.

Aikido isn't about wandering around and beating people to a pulp.
Aikido isn't about breaking someone's arm.

Aikido is about bringing peaceful resolution through harmony of Ki (my thoughts).

some punk in the street is high on crack and wants to get past you any way he can. ok. simply step to the side and 'help him on his journey'.

Aikido is as effective as it needs to be.
What are the chances that someone who's experienced in Karate or something is going to beat you? It's against their code, as is deliberately fighting for Aikido.

my thoughts (probably completely incorrect but oh well)
Aikido,.............is about bringing a peaceful resolution to conflict--no argument here. However, it may not always be so easy as just letting a drug abuser pass. Once in a blue moon it may be about physically defending yourself or someone else--your spouse, grandmother, child, someone who is disabled. In such situations there is no escape--one can get out of the house but loved ones cannot. I distinctly remember hearing about a shodan test and when the randori portion of the exam came up the student simply ran off the mat--away from trouble. Symbolically, that may be great and most of the time in the real world, even appropriate.

However, stopping the spear, bringing harmony to a situation may also be about defending oneself when there is no other choice. Further, it may be about defending others and then one does not have the luxury of be selfish but may be required---by the situation however rare/ unlikely--to be selfless. In such situations one's Aikido needs to at least give one a chance surviving the situation both for oneself and others.

Even in metaphorical uses of Aikido such a verbal conflict resolution one may not always be able/ should be silent (such as letting them pass) and may need to speak up--certain civil rights situations come to mind. In such situations one also needs to be effective as well to bring harmony to the solution. In life there are times to bow low-- be humble and times when defense is required. If one can't defend oneself or others then one IMHO is not truly making a choice.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:51 PM   #160
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Re: im new

Quote:
Daniel Ranger-Holt wrote: View Post
Pure self defence you're better off going for something else other than aikido. Unless you're willing to spend a good few years getting to grips with it. Even then, for pure self defence, you'll need another art to compliment it IMO.
What other art do you recommend to cross-train with aikido?

"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:10 AM   #161
TokyoZeplin
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Re: im new

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Chris Evans wrote: View Post
What other art do you recommend to cross-train with aikido?
Since I haven't started yet, I'm not speaking from personal experience, but from what I remember reading in other threads where this question was asked!
In those threads, it seemed most people could agree on this:

1) Wait on cross-training until you are decent enough in Aikido to not confuse the techniques.

2) Cross-train in something Aikido particularly lacks: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu seems to be a favourite, for on-ground gabbling. For standing, the answers are a bit more varied, but generally seem to be Karate, Muay Thai, or Wing Chun. Some have set that particularly Wing Chun seems a good match, since it works on a "centreline principle" that is very compliant with Aikido principles.

Even though I'm a great believer in Krav Maga's martial effectiveness (can it even be argued?), I don't think it's a very (from my unskilled perspective) good one to mix with. How Krav Maga works just seems so incredibly different, the other end of the spectrum, from Aikido, that for me it seems like it would be difficult to mix the two together well. But then again, that might depend on the Krav Maga dojo... I've seen that generally people distinguish between two types of training: personal self defence, and "professional" training (aimed at armed forces, security, bodyguards, etc.). To my understanding, self defence in Krav Maga uses quite a bit of joint manipulation, so I suppose that might fit with Aikido.

Of course, Goju Ryu Aikijujutsu should also be mentioned, I've read from many members, and seen in documentaries, that many Aikidoka feel that it greatly compliments their Aikido, and makes them understand Aikido techniques better. But from a pure self-defence "complete MA system" perspective, it might be too much like Aikido to be "worth while".

But again, this is merely from what I have read from others, and what information I have gathered (on these forums, others, websites, documentaries, etc.), so take it for what it is
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Old 08-05-2012, 12:54 PM   #162
Brett Charvat
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what exactly is "Goju Ryu Aikijujutsu?"
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #163
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

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Brett Charvat wrote: View Post
I'm almost afraid to ask, but what exactly is "Goju Ryu Aikijujutsu?"
Effin' hell, major brain fart from my end there ._.' would edit it, but can't seem to edit the older posts Thanks for pointing it out!
I obviously meant "Daitō-ryū" not "Goju Ryu", my bad!
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:20 PM   #164
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Re: im new

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Chris Evans wrote: View Post
What other art do you recommend to cross-train with aikido?
It depends. Why are you cross-training? Why are you training in the first place, and what do you feel your training lacks that you want? How much time do you have to devote to cross-training, on an ongoing basis?

If you were buying a pair of shoes, you'd certainly start out with some idea what you wanted to use these shoes for, what your shoe size is, and how much you could afford to spend -- and if you didn't, you probably wouldn't be surprised if the result didn't fit too well (your feet, your purpose or your budget). The same should be true for choosing a martial art, which is a lot harder to swap out than a pair of shoes.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:14 PM   #165
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Well. When u start talking self defense and reality, IMO,
TMAs....while they all have elements that are good for various things, but a lot of unnecessary overhead comes with them.

Its all about OODA man. If u understand it...then u understand how to train. Your either ahead or behind, winning or losing. IMO, arts like Krav Manga are good as they teach aggressiveness and violence of action...good thing to know and be able to do in a fight. However, it assumes u are ahead and winning. Also can have issues with use of force depending on situation. BJJ does a good job of assuming u are behind and losing and how to get back to winning. Which IMO for self defense is the first thing u need to learn. However u don't need to be an expert at BJJ necessarily either.

All other MAs tend to be arts of parity...meaning we train cooperatively and with equal knowledge...and ignore OODA in pratxice almost entirely.

An over simplification, but if self defense is your goal, save your money and find a decent teacher that can show u how to mitigate your risk...it won't all that hard and doesn't require 20 years and a black belt.

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Old 08-05-2012, 05:23 PM   #166
TokyoZeplin
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Well. When u start talking self defense and reality, IMO,
TMAs....while they all have elements that are good for various things, but a lot of unnecessary overhead comes with them.

Its all about OODA man. If u understand it...then u understand how to train. Your either ahead or behind, winning or losing. IMO, arts like Krav Manga are good as they teach aggressiveness and violence of action...good thing to know and be able to do in a fight. However, it assumes u are ahead and winning. Also can have issues with use of force depending on situation. BJJ does a good job of assuming u are behind and losing and how to get back to winning. Which IMO for self defense is the first thing u need to learn. However u don't need to be an expert at BJJ necessarily either.

All other MAs tend to be arts of parity...meaning we train cooperatively and with equal knowledge...and ignore OODA in pratxice almost entirely.

An over simplification, but if self defense is your goal, save your money and find a decent teacher that can show u how to mitigate your risk...it won't all that hard and doesn't require 20 years and a black belt.
Excuse my lack of knowledge, but... TMA? OODA?
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:12 PM   #167
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

TMA = Traditional Martial Art(s)

OODA = Observe, Orient, Decide, Act (see OODA loop)
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #168
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Re: im new

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Chris Evans wrote: View Post
What other art do you recommend to cross-train with aikido?
Boxing, learn to hit and get hit.
dps
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:58 AM   #169
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Re: im new

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Boxing, learn to hit and get hit.
dps
Boxing does teach you how to take a punch or at least not to be too scared of it but one thing (I actually did Nippon Kenpo (sort of armored MMA) but it still applies) is it really comes down to an exchange of blows with the idea that you deliver more than you get and better still the ones you do give are more devastating than the ones you receive. For self defense boxing just does not happen.

Interestingly while I was doing that art I did get into an altercation (running battle with two purse snatchers which ended up on the escalator on the London underground) and yes blows were exchanged but what decided the issue was something as simple as taisabaki. Taisabaki being the take home lesson for Shodokan Aikido also.

For self defense the real issue once you is aggression management - meaning not being overwhelmed by the aggressor and being able to focus your own to the point where you need to be.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:04 AM   #170
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Re: im new

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Boxing does teach you how to take a punch or at least not to be too scared of it but one thing (I actually did Nippon Kenpo (sort of armored MMA) but it still applies) is it really comes down to an exchange of blows with the idea that you deliver more than you get and better still the ones you do give are more devastating than the ones you receive. For self defense boxing just does not happen.

Interestingly while I was doing that art I did get into an altercation (running battle with two purse snatchers which ended up on the escalator on the London underground) and yes blows were exchanged but what decided the issue was something as simple as taisabaki. Taisabaki being the take home lesson for Shodokan Aikido also.

For self defense the real issue once you is aggression management - meaning not being overwhelmed by the aggressor and being able to focus your own to the point where you need to be.
I was going to say the same thing as Peter with respect to boxing. Agree with Peter, boxing is a sport of trading blows within a prescribed set of rules. Not that there is anything wrong with boxing, and too a degree agree there is some value in learning how to take a blow and hardening yourself and your spirit, but we also have to understand the limitation that training in boxing presents.

Frankly, as I stated above, although maybe not so well. I think to learn this, boxing comes with a tremendous amount of overhead and methodology that really don't warrant the time you'd spend learning the boxing skills. There are better, more efficient ways to inclucate how to deal with "what to do when you are losing a fight".

so along with Peter...the real issue is agression management and how you deal with it.

The only real way of doing it is to put yourself into those positions and scenarios and then disecting them and identifying the things you need to work on at the various stages. That is, things like guy hits you and backs you into a corner, he knocks you down on the ground and is pummelling you etc.

A big issue I have is dealing with weapons. What typically happens in most dojos, for example is we do it as a "one step" kata...that is, "stab this way", then "block that way". This isolates out the aliveness that is in the fight..which sucks really. Aliveness being, for example...you are behind in the OODA loop and the guy is stabbing at us as we are getting stabbed and you are stumbling backwards etc.

One might say..."well what is the point of practicing this...in that case you are going to die or be severely injured". duh...

I'd say "exactly". Practicing this helps you understand how serious this stuff is and how little you can really probably do about it! Also, it informs you that it may not be about coming out of the situation unscathed, but managing or minimizing loss. It also informs you to have an appreciation for the fact that simply being ahead of the OODA loop is probably THE most important determination of a fight and NOT any amount of training or skill.

That is why I like weapons...it informs us how important the PROCESS of the fight is vice SKILL.

The same is for empty hand, but it is not as amplified or obvious as weapons since we have a little more margin of error and a better chance of turnign the tables than weapons.

However, even with empty hand...he who understands OODA has the greatest advantage in the fight.

Sadly, IMO, this understanding is NOT universal and we have droves of people in dojos looking to improve their ability to defend themselves through learning minute an miniscule technqiues that in reality are probably very hard to apply in reality.

You might be quick to jump to the Krav Maga philosophy and say...well then they get it. I'd say, maybe...but again...for many...even in KM....it is easy to make the huge assumption that "I have knowledge and can inact violence of action on my opponent".

This may or may not be the case. As Peter said,....it is all about understanding agression and how to manage it.

For me, it is better to study the process or "loop" and where you are in that is more important than learning static "skills" without ever really studying how you employ those things at various points in that process that is what is most important. Unfortunately...I think there are not too many schools out there that really concentrate on this holsitically and evaluate against it as the primary criteria for determining effectiveness and "what works".

So yeah, you can study boxing, Krav Maga, Aikido, Jiu Jitsu...or whatever...but IMO, without focusing primarily on the "process or dynamic" of a fight..then even as good as the skills you might learn in those "systems"...they will be lost if not tied together through "aliveness" or understanding the dynamics or spectrum of violence in a fight.

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Old 08-06-2012, 08:16 AM   #171
lars beyer
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Re: im new

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I was going to say the same thing as Peter with respect to boxing. Agree with Peter, boxing is a sport of trading blows within a prescribed set of rules. Not that there is anything wrong with boxing, and too a degree agree there is some value in learning how to take a blow and hardening yourself and your spirit, but we also have to understand the limitation that training in boxing presents.

Frankly, as I stated above, although maybe not so well. I think to learn this, boxing comes with a tremendous amount of overhead and methodology that really don't warrant the time you'd spend learning the boxing skills. There are better, more efficient ways to inclucate how to deal with "what to do when you are losing a fight".

so along with Peter...the real issue is agression management and how you deal with it.

The only real way of doing it is to put yourself into those positions and scenarios and then disecting them and identifying the things you need to work on at the various stages. That is, things like guy hits you and backs you into a corner, he knocks you down on the ground and is pummelling you etc.

A big issue I have is dealing with weapons. What typically happens in most dojos, for example is we do it as a "one step" kata...that is, "stab this way", then "block that way". This isolates out the aliveness that is in the fight..which sucks really. Aliveness being, for example...you are behind in the OODA loop and the guy is stabbing at us as we are getting stabbed and you are stumbling backwards etc.

One might say..."well what is the point of practicing this...in that case you are going to die or be severely injured". duh...

I'd say "exactly". Practicing this helps you understand how serious this stuff is and how little you can really probably do about it! Also, it informs you that it may not be about coming out of the situation unscathed, but managing or minimizing loss. It also informs you to have an appreciation for the fact that simply being ahead of the OODA loop is probably THE most important determination of a fight and NOT any amount of training or skill.

That is why I like weapons...it informs us how important the PROCESS of the fight is vice SKILL.

The same is for empty hand, but it is not as amplified or obvious as weapons since we have a little more margin of error and a better chance of turnign the tables than weapons.

However, even with empty hand...he who understands OODA has the greatest advantage in the fight.

Sadly, IMO, this understanding is NOT universal and we have droves of people in dojos looking to improve their ability to defend themselves through learning minute an miniscule technqiues that in reality are probably very hard to apply in reality.

You might be quick to jump to the Krav Maga philosophy and say...well then they get it. I'd say, maybe...but again...for many...even in KM....it is easy to make the huge assumption that "I have knowledge and can inact violence of action on my opponent".

This may or may not be the case. As Peter said,....it is all about understanding agression and how to manage it.

For me, it is better to study the process or "loop" and where you are in that is more important than learning static "skills" without ever really studying how you employ those things at various points in that process that is what is most important. Unfortunately...I think there are not too many schools out there that really concentrate on this holsitically and evaluate against it as the primary criteria for determining effectiveness and "what works".

So yeah, you can study boxing, Krav Maga, Aikido, Jiu Jitsu...or whatever...but IMO, without focusing primarily on the "process or dynamic" of a fight..then even as good as the skills you might learn in those "systems"...they will be lost if not tied together through "aliveness" or understanding the dynamics or spectrum of violence in a fight.
Hi Kevin
Thatīs very interresting, would it be possible to elaborate a bit on how this would work in practise, I mean maybe through explaining OODA with an example ? I never heard of this "philosophy" before it was mentioned here, and find it quite interresting..Thank you.
Lars
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:40 AM   #172
dps
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Re: im new

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Boxing does teach you how to take a punch or at least not to be too scared of it....

...For self defense the real issue once you is aggression management - meaning not being overwhelmed by the aggressor and being able to focus your own to the point where you need to be.
Exactly my points about learning how to punch like a boxer and getting punched.

Shodokan Taisabaki

Float like a butterfly,
Sting like a bee,
A boxers punch,
Makes for good Atemi.

My apologies to Muhammad Ali.

dps
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:41 AM   #173
TokyoZeplin
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Interesting that people mention boxing as a way to harden yourself... wouldn't Muay Thai be a better choice? It presents all the same benefits as boxing, except you also use (and get hit by) legs, elbows, knees, and throws?
Thoughts?
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:48 AM   #174
PeterR
 
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Same issue , same benefit, same problem. Muay Tthai = kick boxing.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:52 AM   #175
dps
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Re: How effective is aikido in self defense?

Quote:
Philip Zeplin-Frederiksen wrote: View Post
Interesting that people mention boxing as a way to harden yourself... wouldn't Muay Thai be a better choice? It presents all the same benefits as boxing, except you also use (and get hit by) legs, elbows, knees, and throws?
Thoughts?
Boxing is more available to most people then Muay Thai.

Good boxers do anger management and the OODA loop.
dps
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