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Old 05-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #26
Rob Watson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Bet the screwheads in your house all have traces of cream cheese on them too
Well, that about lox this thread up!

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:37 PM   #27
Howard Popkin
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact


Howard Popkin
www.pbjjc.com
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:13 PM   #28
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
That is total nonsense and makes a mockery of thousands of years of martial knowledge.
Dan
I am sorry you judge me so harshly.

Be well,

Chris
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:35 PM   #29
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Howard Popkin wrote: View Post
Chris,

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.

I can't swing a hammer, but I can call a carpenter.

Also, I thought I put the jew in aikijujutsu

Howard
I love your humor. And I also greatly respect your posts and depth in the traditional arts.
My theory Was not meant to be simplistic or flippant.
Most atemi as Edmund Parker experienced it, were either hammers, whips or thrusts. Even most
#1 strikes with sticks and sabers resemble the hammer strike.


I am a Gardner and do allot of building with a hammer and nails. Posture, form, positioning, relaxation, breath, intent and focus make big differences. Doing subtle motions within ones posture enhances the end result. If your form works on a 4 inch nail, can you trust it on a 6 inch nail? How about a sledge hammer on a railroad spike? How about hitting the bell and winning the prize consistently at the carnival. Some Asian artists have slapped a 4 inch nail into wood with an unprotected palm.

In like manner, thrusts have often been tested by, among other things, blowing out candles whether through the tips of your fingers or the end of a staff. Whips (back fists and #2 strikes/cuts are tested in similar ways.

Each is a demonstration of some skill perfected and tested on non human matter. Each skill can demonstrate what I have experienced as internal power practices.

It is becoming rather clear to me that what folks are referring to as IS/IP is a very specific practice that has been "trademarked" by a specific group of teachers.

I honor such knowledge and look forward to experiencing it as the opportunity arises.

Namaste,

Chris

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 05-23-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 08:59 PM   #30
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Seng-Yew Ong wrote: View Post
For those of you who have developed Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP), I'm wondering how it applies to non-humans, i.e. to inanimate objects (such as when lifting a heavy table/rock) and to animals (for instance when 'play-wresting' with a large dog, primate or bear).

I know this question may sound a little bizarre, but I'm wondering about the generalisability and/or limitations of IS/IP. And perhaps whether there are variations of the of IS/IP?

Thanks in advance.
Not at all! Some of us have mused on the primate question. See thread: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20082 pointing to link: http://youtu.be/Rgurbo_4bqg

As to limitations, I recommend not using IS/IP techniques against (with?) inanimate objects not because I know much about IS/IP but because I have some assumptions about inanimate objects.

Regards,
Anthony
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:27 PM   #31
phitruong
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
Some Asian artists have slapped a 4 inch nail into wood with an unprotected palm.

Chris
must be me since i am asian and can bitch slap a 4 inch nail into my palm and have a wood at the same time. it would hurt a lot, but with the right kind of tonics (and gin), i could do it.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:46 PM   #32
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
must be me since i am asian and can bitch slap a 4 inch nail into my palm and have a wood at the same time. it would hurt a lot, but with the right kind of tonics (and gin), i could do it.
Well, if the wood has been well treated, you might employ little monk Nupchen's "Lamp for the Eyes in Contemplation" practice by emanating light from the tip. See: manuscript PT699 from the recent excavations at Dunhuang.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:14 PM   #33
DH
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
I am sorry you judge me so harshly.

Be well,

Chris
Hi Chris
No sir, I'm not judging you either directly or even by inference.
I was discounting an idea you expressed, dude.
Two very different things.
Cheers
Dan
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:20 PM   #34
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hi Chris
No sir, I'm not judging you either directly or even by inference.
I was discounting an idea you expressed, dude.
Two very different things.
Cheers
Dan
Correction Dan,

I am sorry you discounted my idea so thoroughly.

Be well.

Chris
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:22 AM   #35
Ellis Amdur
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Re: Jewjutsu

Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it).

Some film:
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLyEH3-k4U
#3
#4

Ellis Amdur

Last edited by Ellis Amdur : 05-24-2012 at 10:30 AM.

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:49 AM   #36
Marc Abrams
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Re: Jewjutsu

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it).

Some film:
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLyEH3-k4U
#3
#4

Ellis Amdur
You got to just love a man who mastered Jew Jitsu !

Marc Abrams
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:05 PM   #37
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Jewjutsu

There's a nice little biography of Joseph Greenstein, AKA "The Mighty Atom":
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...h_L_Greenstein

Some of the tales may or not be true, of course, but it is fun to read.

And don't forget Slim "the Hammer Man" Farmar, Greenstein's only student-protege:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96pKz...eature=related

In turn, the contemporary representative of this kind of body work (called "isometric strength training") is Dennis Rogers. Slim Farmar being his mentor. Rogers had an online "museum" dedicated to the Mighty Atom, but it appears to be defunct. He has a website/forum -- Tough Guy -- that still appears to be somewhat active:
http://toughguynews.com/author/dennisrogers/

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it).

Some film:
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLyEH3-k4U
#3
#4

Ellis Amdur
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:26 PM   #38
David Orange
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Re: Jewjutsu

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Actually, that title belongs to Joseph Greenstein, the Mighty Atom, who jumped ship in Yokohama and trained in some kind of jujutsu there, one of the first non-Japanese ever to do so, in, IIRC, 1905. What isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article is that the training regimen he followed as a kid, learned from the circus strongman, included a lot of specific breathing exercises. (And my favorite "feat of strength" listed in the article is - "Beating up 18 Nazis with a baseball bat." - times were different then - the judge praised him for it)
Beating nazis and the Klan with baseball bats! Fantastic!

I used to work for a hell of a karate man named Ron Epstein who joked about using jew-jutsu. He was a direct student of Mas Oyama. He's still out there kicking around, from what I hear. Nearly 80 now, I think.

Thanks.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:38 PM   #39
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

This thread is getting curiouser and more colorful by the minute. I love it.

I was a bit confused, however, by the statement that my idea about the hammer made a mockery of a thousand years of martial knowledge.

As for me, I was thinking of way more than a thousand years ago with Arjuna in the Mahabarata, who was trained by Drona - a well respected hammer man. Then I recalled that Indra created the cosmos with a hammer. So I did a google of the subject.

Types of Hammer Gods--The Aryan Indra--Chinese World Shaper--Scottish Hunting Deity--Egyptian Artisan God--Greek and Roman Thunder Gods--Thor--Hittite, Assyrian, and other types--A Wail from Palestine--Babylonian Influence--Indra's Indian Character--A Nature Myth--Drought Demon slain--Gods and Demons in conflict--Origin of Indra's Thunderbolt--Demons' plot to destroy Universe--Babylonian Creation Myth--How Indra Shaped the World--Elfin Artisans in India, Egypt, and Germania--Babylonian Artisan God--Indra the Harvest God--The God of Battle--Comparison with Thor--Aryan Cattle Lifters--Indra's Queen and Attendants.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/iml/iml06.htm

Surely, if men attribute power to gods via the emblem of a hammer, they also look to martial prowess and specialized power as men wield them also. Ans some of these stories test men's internal power by hitting inanimate things (like rocks).

I also found this:

The Nitiprakasika (Hindi treatise on warfare) divides Indian weapons between 3 categories.
1. the thrown (mukta) including the Parasu (battle Axe)
2) the not thrown (amukta) including a masundi (eight sided cudgel and a Mudgara was a staff in the shape of a hammer)
3) those delivered by mantras (mantramukta) which included the Brahmastra (phurba-like stick)

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vi...imanas_11a.htm

So, maybe I misunderstood how I have made a mockery of internal power and the use of a hammer....
How so, please advise.....

with respect,

Chris
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Old 05-24-2012, 07:51 PM   #40
graham christian
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

You've hit the nail on the head......
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:25 PM   #41
Janet Rosen
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Re: Jewjutsu

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
You got to just love a man who mastered Jew Jitsu !

Marc Abrams
But no man has mastered Jewish Mother Aikido (TM) as revealed to me by Sosueme Sensei.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:35 PM   #42
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Jewjutsu

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
But no man has mastered Jewish Mother Aikido (TM) as revealed to me by Sosueme Sensei.
I wanna train in that. Definitely.
What's the difference between a Jewish Mother Aikidoka and a rottweiler?
Eventually, the Rottweiler let's go......
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:09 AM   #43
Janet Rosen
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Re: Jewjutsu

Quote:
Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
I wanna train in that. Definitely.
What's the difference between a Jewish Mother Aikidoka and a rottweiler?
Eventually, the Rottweiler let's go......
Oh my, Jewish Mother Aikido is nothing like that my dear, I wouldn't hurt a fly .... if we ever meet on the mat I shall be delighted to demo

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:40 PM   #44
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Internal Power/Strength (IS/IP) in relation to non-human contact

Darn....
All that time I spent looking up a good Jewish mother joke.....
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