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Old 05-11-2012, 09:13 AM   #101
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Umm, that was no shiai. That was randori, this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTiLVBiiYHQ ) is shiai.

Looks to me like two guys playing around. Neither one was trying all that hard to impose their will, just a friendly round of randori. It seems quite obvious to me that there was a lack of this kind of experience to the 'aikido' guy, he was unsure about his distance or how to get his partner to engage and failed to respond.

For example, at 1:25, the judo player grabs the elbow of the aikido player. For the next 10 seconds, they basically stand there in that position (it seems like the judo player was trying to embrace the spirit of randori and give his partner time to work).

In terms of critique, I would say the aikido player broke most of the grappling best practices. He never tried to control the 'inside loop' of the grips, always keeping outside grips and never having leverage or control of the judo player. He failed to maintain posture after grips were taken and was always not in control. He never once tried to deal with the grips that were taken, instead he seemed to actively ignore them. He also tried to use his weight and muscle to move the judo player (3:02 to 3:10 mark). While the judo player was the initiator of most of the contact, the aikido player never attempted to get him to over commit or adjust his distance instead letting the judo player control the distance.

That said, none of this has any relevance in the video or anyone's training. This was a not a competition or a street fight between these two guys of similar skill. It seemed obvious that the aikido guy was unfamiliar with this kind of practice and unsure of what was acceptable. He did at points show where aikido might work by setting up fient strikes that could have easily been real. This video says nothing about the state of either arts, but instead is a pretty good example of a great learning opportunity.

In conclusion, get out there and spar!
Dear Don,
Your judo example of Shiai imo must be one of the most boring and non skillful stuff I have ever seen.In the vid with the judoka?and the aikidoka, that also was pathetic.It was just two guys horsing around.Must we endure this sort of nonsense on this forum?Cheers, Joe,
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:15 AM   #102
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Phi:

After deep reflection, I have reached red wine satori! It is not where the red wine comes from that is important, it is the type of red wine and the bottle that it is contained within that is important..... Cab.'s, Bordeaux's, Burgundy's have a narrow neck, going sharply into the wide body. It provides a natural grip for you to hold onto as you shatter some enlightenment into another person's head/psyche.

Marc Abrams
Kampai to red thread Zen.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:45 AM   #103
Aikibu
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Toby Kasavan wrote: View Post
I wish people would stop putting this up as an example of "aikido vs grappeling"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0RFvgy7-0

the guy is Herman, an older, out of shape, co-host for the TV show "rendezvous with adventure" and not a martial artist at all...

here's the original video of the TV show episode that the clip is from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KqenOzofQA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BZivUi5ob0

it's more an example of Tohei taking care not to injure a civilian who is a guest of the dojo...
LOL! I guess you don't get my ironic sense of humor. MY Bad.

Hint: there are three LOI's in this thread....Folks who love Aiki-Chow...Folks who are being polite to the original poster...and folks who are taking themselves a bit too seriously...

Personally I hate talking about Food. It makes me fat.

William Hazen
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #104
DonMagee
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Don,
Your judo example of Shiai imo must be one of the most boring and non skillful stuff I have ever seen.In the vid with the judoka?and the aikidoka, that also was pathetic.It was just two guys horsing around.Must we endure this sort of nonsense on this forum?Cheers, Joe,
If the top competitors of judo are boring and non-skillful as you claim, I think you could be very very famous. Just go win the olympics. Until you do, I'm going to say you are wrong and insulting an entire martial art that actually tests their training.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:59 AM   #105
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

What a silly thread. Of course someone who practices judo-style grappling all the time is better at it than someone who doesn't. Why does the starter of this thread think this is some great revelation, and why is someone who has nothing nice to say about akido hanging around on an aikido board?

Last edited by OwlMatt : 05-11-2012 at 11:06 AM.

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Old 05-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #106
phitruong
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
Personally I hate talking about Food. It makes me fat.

William Hazen
no no, talking doesn't make you fat. thinking does. it's about intent which is thought, which is the basis of aiki, which is the major leading cause for fatness. the kind that jenny craig cannot help. my son told me the other day that i kinda jiggly and got man boobs and that i need to get on a diet. i said that the affect of abundance aiki. i wondered if aiki effects also making me losing hair, memory and something else which i can't seem to recall.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:16 AM   #107
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Don Magee wrote: View Post
If the top competitors of judo are boring and non-skillful as you claim, I think you could be very very famous. Just go win the olympics. Until you do, I'm going to say you are wrong and insulting an entire martial art that actually tests their training.
I though real men wore pink gis.

No, not really, I just miss the days of Gene LaBell.

Seriously, that was one highly technical Shiai. Small circle judo. No openings and no room for mistakes. Great athletes.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:59 PM   #108
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Bring shinai! He's a Shinkage ryu swordsman!
I am looking forward to it. I talked to him about getting the guys to focus some on other aspects of training other than BJJ. What is great about him is he has an interesting perspective of how to train warriors, and a lot of experience doing it.

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Old 05-11-2012, 05:08 PM   #109
Aikibu
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
no no, talking doesn't make you fat. thinking does. it's about intent which is thought, which is the basis of aiki, which is the major leading cause for fatness. the kind that jenny craig cannot help. my son told me the other day that i kinda jiggly and got man boobs and that i need to get on a diet. i said that the affect of abundance aiki. i wondered if aiki effects also making me losing hair, memory and something else which i can't seem to recall.
LMAO... Ditto my friend.

William Hazen
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:54 AM   #110
sakumeikan
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
If the top competitors of judo are boring and non-skillful as you claim, I think you could be very very famous. Just go win the olympics. Until you do, I'm going to say you are wrong and insulting an entire martial art that actually tests their training.
Dear Don,
I hardly think any 73 years old guy would participate in the Olympics.Can you name anyone who currently is in a Olympic squad?Zimmer races are not part of the Olypics as far as I know.
On you other point, in my time I have been a judoka with considerable experience.I met , trained and was taught by men like Kenshiro Abbe/Anton Geesink,Kisaburo Watanabe.One of my contempories George Kerr is now 10th Dan , and one of my ex training partners Bob Thomas is now 7thDan.I have a great deal of respect for judoka.However if you care to check up via Youtube and watch some videos of the earlier aforementioned men , you will see a more classic , watchable style of judo.These men [also including Dave Starbrook, Neil Adams ,Brian Jacks , Angelo Pariset -I could give you a list the length of my arm]were imo far better and more stylish than your example shown here. I suppose its how you perceive things.Judo can be a thing of beauty,even under test conditions.I would suggest that your example can hardly come into this category.Hope you are well.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 05-12-2012, 03:30 AM   #111
Hellis
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Don,
I hardly think any 73 years old guy would participate in the Olympics.Can you name anyone who currently is in a Olympic squad?Zimmer races are not part of the Olypics as far as I know.
On you other point, in my time I have been a judoka with considerable experience.I met , trained and was taught by men like Kenshiro Abbe/Anton Geesink,Kisaburo Watanabe.One of my contempories George Kerr is now 10th Dan , and one of my ex training partners Bob Thomas is now 7thDan.I have a great deal of respect for judoka.However if you care to check up via Youtube and watch some videos of the earlier aforementioned men , you will see a more classic , watchable style of judo.These men [also including Dave Starbrook, Neil Adams ,Brian Jacks , Angelo Pariset -I could give you a list the length of my arm]were imo far better and more stylish than your example shown here. I suppose its how you perceive things.Judo can be a thing of beauty,even under test conditions.I would suggest that your example can hardly come into this category.Hope you are well.
Cheers, Joe.
Hi Joe

I can vouch for your background as a Judoka with Kenshiro Abbe Sensei and others. As an ex Judoka myself,.. I watched the YT video and felt I had wasted a precious 8mins of my life.

Regards

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:02 AM   #112
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Geesink Rocks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ8eq...e_gdata_player
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