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Old 05-09-2012, 04:14 PM   #76
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
was going to put another line. if i have to resort to blades to handle judo folks, then my aiki sucks big time, which means i have to punish myself by eating a dozen donuts to get rid of my depression which would require extra heavy coffee and medium rare steaks and ....
Ok, I am an old fart who loves the old West but never understood Roy Rogers. Gunfights weren't fair but some gunfighters used the equivalent of a "Life giving sword". I am no athlete anymore and think it is sophomoric to play by rules.

So I carry a tactical folder instead of a tanto. Sometimes I carry a left handed blade for those tricky fellas that grab your right pocket when they crash the line. Thats my wakazashi substitute. Then I often carry my cold Steele vaquero grande if I am in the badlands. "Now that's a knife", said Crocodile Dundee when confronted by a street punk. That is my katana.
Aiki strategy. Aiki Techniques are the same. But I can choose whether to use a death dealing, life
giving or "no sword" response. Fiddlededoo.
Is it the formalized theories or actual acts in the real world that define compassion and "love"?
As a fed, I never used lethal force though my jujitsu and Kenpo training began each technique as a lethal action. As a bodyguard, I have never cut anyone or shot them. But why bring fists to a knife
fight?

Rules? I slay that statue of the Buddha. With Ikkyo the iconoclast monk, I say:
"that stone Buddha deserves all the birdshit it gets
I wave my skinny arms like a tall flower in the wind".

Now, for a favorite "compassionate technique" when confronted by that darn knife fighter who swore he wanted to fight you with Queensbury Rules.

Colonel Mark Mile's (belted by Masato Tamura in 1938), with his famous flying knee break. It was designed by him for WWII Paramarines to face unarmed against a Japanese bayonet by sliding under the angle of attack like a bowling ball rolling through pens (the knee).

http://m.myspace.com/home.wap?bfd=we...667914/2058646

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 05-09-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #77
BarryB
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Ok, time to set the record straight. I'm the aikidoka in the video. As most of you have figured out it was NOT a real competition. I agreed NOT to do any joint locks or distracting atemi and see if Mark could unbalance me. So, yes I was playing Judo as an experiment. Additionally, he's a san dan with a lot of competitions under his belt. I didn't even know it was on video until it turned up here, it was nothing more than a friendly "lets see what happens". There is no valid comparison since, as you can plainly see he is not attacking as any aikidoka needs an uke to do in order to perform technique. Also, the Ma ai is no good for me either as most of you have noticed, we could have knocked each others teeth out with no technique at all. I'd never let anyone that close on the street or in an uncontrolled environment.I freely admit to never being able to take advantage of him given the agreed upon parameters but, again I'm not a judoka. I had put on a seminar at his dojo because, they were interested to see the similarities and differences in the respective arts. Some of you get it, some don't and some should think before they speak or put anything in print and show their foolishness and inexperience.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:01 PM   #78
phitruong
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Red Wine Dammit, Don't forget the Red Wine! Nothing really goes better with medium rare steaks! When you are done with the bottle, simply smash it over the offending person's head.....

Marc Abrams
yes, i am rightly corrected. import or domestic?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #79
phitruong
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
Ok, I am an old fart who loves the old West but never understood Roy Rogers. Gunfights weren't fair but some gunfighters used the equivalent of a "Life giving sword". I am no athlete anymore and think it is sophomoric to play by rules.
we are talking about playing with judo folks in a friendly setting to see what each others can do, right? if this is a real life short of thing, i'd go with the marine approach: bomb you from the distance, shell you, riffle, then pistol and grenade, then knives, then teeth, then your mother-in-law or maybe drop your mother-in-law on you first, then bomb, then .... well you got me?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #80
Rob Watson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Barry Benjamin wrote: View Post
Ok, time to set the record straight. I'm the aikidoka in the video. As most of you have figured out it was NOT a real competition. I agreed NOT to do any joint locks or distracting atemi and see if Mark could unbalance me. So, yes I was playing Judo as an experiment. Additionally, he's a san dan with a lot of competitions under his belt. I didn't even know it was on video until it turned up here, it was nothing more than a friendly "lets see what happens". There is no valid comparison since, as you can plainly see he is not attacking as any aikidoka needs an uke to do in order to perform technique. Also, the Ma ai is no good for me either as most of you have noticed, we could have knocked each others teeth out with no technique at all. I'd never let anyone that close on the street or in an uncontrolled environment.I freely admit to never being able to take advantage of him given the agreed upon parameters but, again I'm not a judoka. I had put on a seminar at his dojo because, they were interested to see the similarities and differences in the respective arts. Some of you get it, some don't and some should think before they speak or put anything in print and show their foolishness and inexperience.
Thanks for that. Some see what they want. Others can see deeper. None can tell what goes on inside the others head.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:19 PM   #81
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

... most Aikidoka seem to get "lost" by taking their focus off Uke's center and concentrate on the arm. This just tells me they have not made the transition from basic arm grab practice in class to Irimi. When I see someone do this... I just roll with it and crash into their center as a gentle reminder. To a BJJ or Judo Guy it's like handing yourself over on a silver platter. That in my opinion was the Aikido dudes issue on the vid.The Judoka would take his mind by grabbing his arm and then woosh! He was on his back. and you're right when you enter (aka crash the line) thats when the magic may happen though you're fooling yourself if you don't think a Judoka or Grappler does not know how to handle this. So the hard part in Aikido is to make sure they "come to you" by you staying open or as Shoji Nishio puts it Yurusu Aiki aka "Accept The Attack."

Easy to describe but unless you practice "live"... very hard to do. (Just ask my chin or backside. )

William Hazen

PS. It's one reason some folks hate to train with me as their Uke because I was taught that without a sincere effort Nage would never learn anything... Indeed... weak attacks will actually erode a Nage's
chances to improve. Thats another thing to take away from Tohei's vid. If you don't learn to "use it"...
you will definitely never "have it".... when you "need it". [/quote]

Great post! : )
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:34 PM   #82
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
we are talking about playing with judo folks in a friendly setting to see what each others can do, right? if this is a real life short of thing, i'd go with the marine approach: bomb you from the distance, shell you, riffle, then pistol and grenade, then knives, then teeth, then your mother-in-law or maybe drop your mother-in-law on you first, then bomb, then .... well you got me?
I guess I get lost in the many and often conflicting Aikido practices.

(1) while I carry weapons and act with compassion, i choose compassion. Bombs are legally indiscriminate and mindless.
(2) Often aikidoka train with bokken, tanto and katana and weapon against weapon in kata. to what end?
(3) The side of my knife is some of the best aiki-no-jitsu I have experienced. No cuts at all on uke.
(4) are we doing a sport Aikido vice Judo as an end in itself learning how one sport can dominate other styles with rules they benefit by? Or are we silently assuming these two in a street confrontation is equal to what happens in sport rules.

For me, way too much conflicting data. I carry judo/jujitsu Aikijujitsu and many forms of pugilism and weapons work in my quiver. They all have aiki influence now. But I change tactics and stes when strategy demands it.

I am in worst shape than our aikidoka in the video. Under similar scenario that judo san Dan would likely do me harm without my knife to assist me.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:30 PM   #83
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
Thanks for that. Some see what they want. Others can see deeper. None can tell what goes on inside the others head.
Hey Robert,

In 2009, I tried a similar thing actually. There was allot of talk about Tai Chi internal training on this discussion site. At the Arnold Classic (Columbus, Ohio) Dr. Hsie Ming Hwang had sponsored "Extreme Tai Chi" as a competitive event. Everyone was invited to try and throw their opponents out of the ring or take them down. No face punching but open hand pushes were welcomed. No leg hooks but trips and all forms of Shuai Chou, Judo and wreswtling were fine.

I am deceent in Tai Chi, but what I brought to the game was an ujnderstanding of small circle pivot points I use in Aiki irimi tactics. Now, this style of fight is pretty linear in gross appearance. And Tai Chi guys protect their center with a wide variety of suppleness practices, rarely making the mistake of tightening their shoulders when pushing, and reading minutae to uproot others at the torso. But looking closer, you see the small circles in play.

This was a great leqarning experience. My Aiki was pretty good against the other players. I took 3rd place. A Shuai Chou/collegiate wrestler who was 30 years old and in his prime took second. Timothy Hwang (Tai Chi, Baji, and Shaolin) took first. He was 24 years old and trained with his father since he was a kid.

In this photo, I am uprooting Timothy.

http://www.myspace.com/my/photos/photo/20119628/Album

Lessons learned:
(1) Like Okamoto's Ropokai - "over", "under", "side", "side", "front", "back" are all good ways to create kuzushi. Also, like Okamoto, the circles have to be small and irimi must be subtle. Traditional Aikido techniques would not work. But my Aiki was there in little bitty circular movements attacking his spine and sometimes attacking his shoulder with a compression so I could link into his center. Thus, it looked like Tai Chi.

(2) Mits Yamashita once called Helio Gracie's ground work "Aikido on the ground". Little guys can indeed use small circle and relaxation to get the better of big guys. But you have to take the principles you learn from an Aiki art and translate it into the art you are practicing. My Aiki stumped Tim Hwang a little bit and for just aq little while. But he is an excellent Tai Chi man. I hear is also training judo now. He is near impossible to throw. He is a real force to recon with. He has his eyes on the Olympics.

(3) I will never try this again. I was 55 years old at the time and about 50 pounds overweight. Before the final bouts in the elimination match, my arches had fallen. The Shuai Chou guy was like a bull dozer during overtime and his thrusting palms shook my frame. My form began to suck and I paid a price in my back for about 4 months. Now days, I take knives to boxing matches. Win and lose are sophmoric illusions. Livinf and protecting my physical vulnerabilities is the way of the Tao.

For those who want to see extreme Tai Chi, check out this link. Tim hwang vs Jan C Childress. Watch Timothy's use of flexible spine and single weighte legs to literally suck-in" the opponent's attacks and spit them back out in any direction. Now that is Irimi on a whole different level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InDLB1-o9mI

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 05-09-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:50 PM   #84
lbb
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Red Wine Dammit, Don't forget the Red Wine! Nothing really goes better with medium rare steaks! When you are done with the bottle, simply smash it over the offending person's head.....
How do you expect to ever win a fight if you eat medium rare steaks? Here's what you do:

1. Get a superior quality t-bone steak.
2. Show it a picture of the person who invented fire.
3. Eat.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #85
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Lot of talk about choice and control. That is, much of what it seems a lot of strategies and tactics are based on seem to assume that a certain degree of choice and control will be available to you. Also a lot of assuming away or eliminated variables. It is okay IMO to isolate conditions, but need to make sure we understand what the impacts of this measures are.

Things like "I wouldn't let him get that close"...... "I'd whip out my tactical folder".....

My point is be careful in your thinking....how much do you actually train when those variables are taking away? In most scenarios, I think in reality, we are in a hand to hand fight cause those things...namely distance, choice, and control have been taking away from us to some degree.

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Old 05-10-2012, 12:25 AM   #86
Janet Rosen
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Barry Benjamin wrote: View Post
Ok, time to set the record straight. I'm the aikidoka in the video. As most of you have figured out it was NOT a real competition. I agreed NOT to do any joint locks or distracting atemi and see if Mark could unbalance me. So, yes I was playing Judo as an experiment. Additionally, he's a san dan with a lot of competitions under his belt. I didn't even know it was on video until it turned up here, it was nothing more than a friendly "lets see what happens". There is no valid comparison since, as you can plainly see he is not attacking as any aikidoka needs an uke to do in order to perform technique. Also, the Ma ai is no good for me either as most of you have noticed, we could have knocked each others teeth out with no technique at all. I'd never let anyone that close on the street or in an uncontrolled environment.I freely admit to never being able to take advantage of him given the agreed upon parameters but, again I'm not a judoka. I had put on a seminar at his dojo because, they were interested to see the similarities and differences in the respective arts. Some of you get it, some don't and some should think before they speak or put anything in print and show their foolishness and inexperience.
Thanks for stepping up and speaking! Yep, nothing for anybody, including you, to be embarrassed about - on the video. Maybe on this thread.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:26 AM   #87
Janet Rosen
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
we are talking about playing with judo folks in a friendly setting to see what each others can do, right? if this is a real life short of thing, i'd go with the marine approach: bomb you from the distance, shell you, riffle, then pistol and grenade, then knives, then teeth, then your mother-in-law or maybe drop your mother-in-law on you first, then bomb, then .... well you got me?
Tactical Kim Chee, Phi, tactical kim chee. How many times I gotta remind you?

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:18 AM   #88
phitruong
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
I guess I get lost in the many and often conflicting Aikido practices.
i am not conflict about my aikido practice, other than that we should have better outfit, with zipper pants and velcro hakama (come in handy when you in the setting where there are spinning light globes and dollar bills) with different colors than black and blue. not the mention, the gi top should have pocket for the ipod, because i might want to listen to acid rocks while peacefully throwing people.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:23 AM   #89
phitruong
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Tactical Kim Chee, Phi, tactical kim chee. How many times I gotta remind you?
do you know how hard it is to carry a conceal ziplock bag of kimchee? every time you whip it out, in the most bad-ass location, mostly in the lunch room, folks would ask "can i try some?" and then you have a crowd control issue, then the bag gone empty before you know it and you didn't even have the chance to smell it!!!

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:00 AM   #90
tlk52
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

I wish people would stop putting this up as an example of "aikido vs grappeling"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0RFvgy7-0

the guy is Herman, an older, out of shape, co-host for the TV show "rendezvous with adventure" and not a martial artist at all...

here's the original video of the TV show episode that the clip is from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KqenOzofQA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BZivUi5ob0

it's more an example of Tohei taking care not to injure a civilian who is a guest of the dojo...

Last edited by tlk52 : 05-10-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:13 AM   #91
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Lot of talk about choice and control. That is, much of what it seems a lot of strategies and tactics are based on seem to assume that a certain degree of choice and control will be available to you. Also a lot of assuming away or eliminated variables. It is okay IMO to isolate conditions, but need to make sure we understand what the impacts of this measures are.

Things like "I wouldn't let him get that close"...... "I'd whip out my tactical folder".....

My point is be careful in your thinking....how much do you actually train when those variables are taking away? In most scenarios, I think in reality, we are in a hand to hand fight cause those things...namely distance, choice, and control have been taking away from us to some degree.
Always enjoy your posts Kevin. My original home dojo is near Marine Corp Air Station in San Diego.
We get many recon and Marine Defensives trainers from there and Pendelton in attendance. One of my favorite tactics I am told they use at the invective is to coax a BJJ and Judo guy into a ground fight (an easy thing to do). But they draw their knife as they are falling to the ground and the BJJ guy is vying for an dominance as if they were in an unarmed sport match.

Now that's fair game to this old bugger and it protects my bad back.

Did you check out the Extreme Tai Chi I posted earlier in this thread? Jan Childress is a National Champion from the William C C Chen tradition. Tim Hwang literally dominates him. Close quarters demand small circle strategies.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:13 AM   #92
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Barry Benjamin wrote: View Post
Ok, time to set the record straight. I had put on a seminar at his dojo because, they were interested to see the similarities and differences in the respective arts. Some of you get it, some don't and some should think before they speak or put anything in print and show their foolishness and inexperience.
So how did the seminar go?

William Hazen
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:29 PM   #93
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
was going to put another line. if i have to resort to blades to handle judo folks, then my aiki sucks big time, which means i have to punish myself by eating a dozen donuts to get rid of my depression which would require extra heavy coffee and medium rare steaks and ....
Medium rare? Medium rare? Phi, I've lost all respect for you.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:51 AM   #94
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
Always enjoy your posts Kevin. My original home dojo is near Marine Corp Air Station in San Diego.
We get many recon and Marine Defensives trainers from there and Pendelton in attendance. One of my favorite tactics I am told they use at the invective is to coax a BJJ and Judo guy into a ground fight (an easy thing to do). But they draw their knife as they are falling to the ground and the BJJ guy is vying for an dominance as if they were in an unarmed sport match.

Now that's fair game to this old bugger and it protects my bad back.

Did you check out the Extreme Tai Chi I posted earlier in this thread? Jan Childress is a National Champion from the William C C Chen tradition. Tim Hwang literally dominates him. Close quarters demand small circle strategies.
One of my new "bosses" her in Germany is COL George Bristol, USMC...he founded MCMAP. Can't wait to get on the mat with COL Bristol. He comes with quite a background.

http://www.koryu.com/bio.html

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Old 05-11-2012, 07:11 AM   #95
Cliff Judge
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Chris Parkerson wrote: View Post
We get many recon and Marine Defensives trainers from there and Pendelton in attendance. One of my favorite tactics I am told they use at the invective is to coax a BJJ and Judo guy into a ground fight (an easy thing to do). But they draw their knife as they are falling to the ground and the BJJ guy is vying for an dominance as if they were in an unarmed sport match.
While I was training some kali a couple of years ago, there was this practitioner with about seven years of training under his belt, and a new kid with a BJJ background. Three times I saw this exchange when they were practicing free flow together: The younger guy felt like he had an opening for a takedown and he took it, then he would try to go for an armbar....you would hear the older guy hit the mat and you would stop what you were doing and glance over, and see him tap quickly. Then, as he stood up, the BJJ kid would look down between his legs and see one of the very long, straight training knives right between his legs pointed straight at his jewels. The older guy would always say rather loudly, "Oh, excuse me, it looks like I dropped something, could you hand me those?"

This group had an adage passed down from one of their head people to the effect of, "Most fights may go to the ground, but they stay there exactly as long as it takes the faster guy to get a reverse grip [on one of his knives]."

Last edited by Cliff Judge : 05-11-2012 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:22 AM   #96
Chris Parkerson
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
While I was training some kali a couple of years ago, there was this practitioner with about seven years of training under his belt, and a new kid with a BJJ background. Three times I saw this exchange when they were practicing free flow together: The younger guy felt like he had an opening for a takedown and he took it, then he would try to go for an armbar....you would hear the older guy hit the mat and you would stop what you were doing and glance over, and see him tap quickly. Then, as he stood up, the BJJ kid would look down between his legs and see one of the very long, straight training knives right between his legs pointed straight at his jewels. The older guy would always say rather loudly, "Oh, excuse me, it looks like I dropped something, could you hand me those?"

This group had an adage passed down from one of their head people to the effect of, "Most fights may go to the ground, but they stay there exactly as long as it takes the faster guy to get a reverse grip [on one of his knives]."
LoL.

Felix Valencia of Valencia Lameco (private trainer to the CEO of Cold Steele) had one of the best
integrations of BJJ with a knife. I was so blown away by him in 2003 that I hired him to assist in the construction of the Defensives curriculum I was charged to develop at Frontsight in Pahrump,
NV.

Be well Cliff

Last edited by Chris Parkerson : 05-11-2012 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:30 AM   #97
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
One of my new "bosses" her in Germany is COL George Bristol, USMC...he founded MCMAP. Can't wait to get on the mat with COL Bristol. He comes with quite a background.

http://www.koryu.com/bio.html
Bring shinai! He's a Shinkage ryu swordsman!
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:04 AM   #98
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
This video? This is a judo shiai. Why would anyone expect an Aikidoka to do better than a ranked Judoka in a Judo shiai?
Umm, that was no shiai. That was randori, this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTiLVBiiYHQ ) is shiai.

Looks to me like two guys playing around. Neither one was trying all that hard to impose their will, just a friendly round of randori. It seems quite obvious to me that there was a lack of this kind of experience to the 'aikido' guy, he was unsure about his distance or how to get his partner to engage and failed to respond.

For example, at 1:25, the judo player grabs the elbow of the aikido player. For the next 10 seconds, they basically stand there in that position (it seems like the judo player was trying to embrace the spirit of randori and give his partner time to work).

In terms of critique, I would say the aikido player broke most of the grappling best practices. He never tried to control the 'inside loop' of the grips, always keeping outside grips and never having leverage or control of the judo player. He failed to maintain posture after grips were taken and was always not in control. He never once tried to deal with the grips that were taken, instead he seemed to actively ignore them. He also tried to use his weight and muscle to move the judo player (3:02 to 3:10 mark). While the judo player was the initiator of most of the contact, the aikido player never attempted to get him to over commit or adjust his distance instead letting the judo player control the distance.

That said, none of this has any relevance in the video or anyone's training. This was a not a competition or a street fight between these two guys of similar skill. It seemed obvious that the aikido guy was unfamiliar with this kind of practice and unsure of what was acceptable. He did at points show where aikido might work by setting up fient strikes that could have easily been real. This video says nothing about the state of either arts, but instead is a pretty good example of a great learning opportunity.

In conclusion, get out there and spar!

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:21 AM   #99
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Medium rare? Medium rare? Phi, I've lost all respect for you.
after reading through various enlightenment posts, enlightenment came over me in full halo effect, so i stop eating the steak right off the cow. now i switched to medium rare. it's less twitchy and i can use my knives.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #100
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
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Re: Reality? Embarrassment for Aikido

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
yes, i am rightly corrected. import or domestic?
Phi:

After deep reflection, I have reached red wine satori! It is not where the red wine comes from that is important, it is the type of red wine and the bottle that it is contained within that is important..... Cab.'s, Bordeaux's, Burgundy's have a narrow neck, going sharply into the wide body. It provides a natural grip for you to hold onto as you shatter some enlightenment into another person's head/psyche.

Marc Abrams
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