Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-01-2011, 01:15 PM   #26
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Maybe it was those zillion (appropriately spent) hours on the mat that *allow* them to do those amazing things today. And feel like "hey, it's nothing I developed, I just could do it one day... How come you can't feel it?"

Just thinkin' out loud...
Heh. That's what I call "Tai Chee Syndrome". It's the belief that "if I just do this form-choreography I learned at the park from Billy Bob, one day I will wake up and have a green aura around me and people will just bounce off of me if they attack". Gotta love 'em.... these are the people that always pay retail.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 01:58 PM   #27
Cliff Judge
Dojo: Aikido Shobukan Dojo
Location: Columbia, MD
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 889
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Well, I'm thinking of the observations by Ellis Amdur about how that conditioning can come about after years of ukemi. How the very mindful practice helps develop that sensitivity and conditioning. So we have people with a zillion hours on the mat who can do amazing things. Maybe it was those zillion (appropriately spent) hours on the mat that *allow* them to do those amazing things today. And feel like "hey, it's nothing I developed, I just could do it one day... How come you can't feel it?"

Just thinkin' out loud...
When I looked around the web to figure out wtf the "silk reeling" thing was talked about in another thread here, I saw, a couple of times, a theme that i think is classically Internal Chinese about how chi is soaked into the body and cooked over time.

That had me thinking about the whole "ukemi softens the joints to allow for the expression of takemusu aiki" theme of Hidden in Plain Sight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2011, 01:23 PM   #28
Dave Plaza
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Does anybody know if there are any specific exercises that can be done to help develop the ability to move your inside?

Thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 05:53 AM   #29
john.burn
 
john.burn's Avatar
Dojo: Chishin Dojo
Location: Coventry
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 179
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Dave Plaza wrote: View Post
Does anybody know if there are any specific exercises that can be done to help develop the ability to move your inside?

Thanks
Dave,

You need to get yourself onto a seminar with the IS guys to get your foot in the door with this stuff or likely as not, you'll be muscling through it.

Just got back from Edinburgh and my head still hurts with all of the info that was given to us - it certainly wasn't physically taxing but it was mentally, and then some.

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 07:35 AM   #30
Shadowfax
 
Shadowfax's Avatar
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 882
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
Dave,

You need to get yourself onto a seminar with the IS guys to get your foot in the door with this stuff or likely as not, you'll be muscling through it.
I second that one. Our dojo had a couple of hours with Mark Murry a while back which was very enlightening. I'm not sure that what we were shown can be adequately conveyed in print or by video. You need someone there to help you feel it.

Also getting to one of Ikeda sensei's seminars would prove useful.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 08:22 AM   #31
Dave Plaza
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 33
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Thanks Cherie and John.

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
Dave,

You need to get yourself onto a seminar with the IS guys to get your foot in the door with this stuff or likely as not, you'll be muscling through it.

Just got back from Edinburgh and my head still hurts with all of the info that was given to us - it certainly wasn't physically taxing but it was mentally, and then some.
John I'm based in England... I'm not sure where to look to find these seminars, it is definately something I would be interested in attending.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 08:31 AM   #32
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 307
Germany
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Dave Plaza wrote: View Post
Thanks Cherie and John.

John I'm based in England... I'm not sure where to look to find these seminars, it is definately something I would be interested in attending.
Dave,
the "non-aikido martial traditions" forum on this site is probably one of the best places anywhere.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 09:23 AM   #33
john.burn
 
john.burn's Avatar
Dojo: Chishin Dojo
Location: Coventry
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 179
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Dave Plaza wrote: View Post
Thanks Cherie and John.

John I'm based in England... I'm not sure where to look to find these seminars, it is definately something I would be interested in attending.
Dave, I'm based in England - Coventry so fairly centrally located. If you're ever in the vicinity let me know - you'd be more than welcome.

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:02 AM   #34
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
I second that one. Our dojo had a couple of hours with Mark Murry a while back which was very enlightening. I'm not sure that what we were shown can be adequately conveyed in print or by video. You need someone there to help you feel it.
Hi Cherie,

I am curious as to what you (and maybe your dojo mates) thought of what Mark presented as to how it could fit into helping your Aikido training. I am not looking for a critique of what he did since I know Mark and have trained with him on numerous occasions, just interested in how the materiel he presented was received from an Aikidoka's perspective.

In other words, we had a dojocho of a eastern PA dojo reach out to us and has trained IS with us a couple times - I won't speak for him on this (he can do that himself if he likes) but he has commented on how the materiel we presented has changed his Aikido training to some extent and I was curious if the stuff Mark showed has maybe had the same effect in your dojo.

Thanks

Greg
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 07:46 PM   #35
Shadowfax
 
Shadowfax's Avatar
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 882
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Hi Cherie,

I am curious as to what you (and maybe your dojo mates) thought of what Mark presented as to how it could fit into helping your Aikido training. I am not looking for a critique of what he did since I know Mark and have trained with him on numerous occasions, just interested in how the materiel he presented was received from an Aikidoka's perspective.

Greg
Hi Greg. Well I can't speak for the whole dojo or what my teacher's thoughts are. Perhaps he will care to share his thoughts here at some point.

I am still in the experimental stage but there was one night that one of my teachers and I just spent the night taking Mark's exercises and incorporating them into various techniques. Since you have had experience with him perhaps you will understand my ,probably vague, descriptions.

What I think we both noticed most was that from uke's perspective they were sucked into the techniques in a smoother more flowing manner. I mean it was as if nage just vanished and the technique just happened without anyone making it happen. the ukemi was much easier and without any feeling of force at all. Quite difficult for me to describe. From Nage's viewpoint is seemed also as if uke just disappeared and was sucked into our movements without us actually bringing her with us, and we could move easily and freely.

We also noticed that we were finding some of the things we have seen Ikeda sensei do but were never quite able to figure out. my teacher that night, in particular, commented on that move your insides, internal spiral thing that seems so elusive.

Lately ,at home, I have been working with this excercise in conjunction with a tai chi movement that one of my teachers likes to practice. I don't know it's name but basically it is just transferring weight from one foot to the other in a very slow walking movement. I have a lot of knee pain and I am beginning to notice that the way I move has changed and in a way that takes the strain off of my knees and lower back.

Last night in class my ikkyo was noticeably smoother and more powerful without my old usual muscle added into it. My foot work was better as well. Sensei was my uke for a good bit of the night and he noted that I am turning around my spine more now than I ever did before. So I think it has also helped me to be more centered in my movements in aikido. I am just coming off of a long plateau (literally last night) so I look forward to seeing further evidence of what these exercises have done for my aikido. Also now that spring is here I will be on my horse more and paying attention to how it might have influenced my riding.

Anyway these are my thoughts as of right now. Not sure if others in the dojo have had similar experiences or something different. Hope this proved useful to you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:00 PM   #36
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
Hi Greg. Well I can't speak for the whole dojo or what my teacher's thoughts are. Perhaps he will care to share his thoughts here at some point.

I am still in the experimental stage but there was one night that one of my teachers and I just spent the night taking Mark's exercises and incorporating them into various techniques. Since you have had experience with him perhaps you will understand my ,probably vague, descriptions.

What I think we both noticed most was that from uke's perspective they were sucked into the techniques in a smoother more flowing manner. I mean it was as if nage just vanished and the technique just happened without anyone making it happen. the ukemi was much easier and without any feeling of force at all. Quite difficult for me to describe. From Nage's viewpoint is seemed also as if uke just disappeared and was sucked into our movements without us actually bringing her with us, and we could move easily and freely.

We also noticed that we were finding some of the things we have seen Ikeda sensei do but were never quite able to figure out. my teacher that night, in particular, commented on that move your insides, internal spiral thing that seems so elusive.

Lately ,at home, I have been working with this excercise in conjunction with a tai chi movement that one of my teachers likes to practice. I don't know it's name but basically it is just transferring weight from one foot to the other in a very slow walking movement. I have a lot of knee pain and I am beginning to notice that the way I move has changed and in a way that takes the strain off of my knees and lower back.

Last night in class my ikkyo was noticeably smoother and more powerful without my old usual muscle added into it. My foot work was better as well. Sensei was my uke for a good bit of the night and he noted that I am turning around my spine more now than I ever did before. So I think it has also helped me to be more centered in my movements in aikido. I am just coming off of a long plateau (literally last night) so I look forward to seeing further evidence of what these exercises have done for my aikido. Also now that spring is here I will be on my horse more and paying attention to how it might have influenced my riding.

Anyway these are my thoughts as of right now. Not sure if others in the dojo have had similar experiences or something different. Hope this proved useful to you.
Hi Cherie,

Thank you for your response - your comments do make sense to me and I encourage you to continue down that path. A few key points to remember: keep mind and body coordinated, connect to AND trough Uke's center, and move you not Uke good luck!

Greg
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 11:05 PM   #37
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,916
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Cherie, your description made me immediately think of Larry Novick's "kinesthetic invisibility"... indeed something to strive for.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 06:01 AM   #38
Shadowfax
 
Shadowfax's Avatar
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido, Pitsburgh PA
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 882
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Hi Cherie,

Thank you for your response - your comments do make sense to me and I encourage you to continue down that path. A few key points to remember: keep mind and body coordinated, connect to AND trough Uke's center, and move you not Uke good luck!

Greg
Thank you I intend to do so. These are all things that my teachers continue to encourage as well. I find these kinds of exercises endlessly fascinating.

I mean don;'t get me working I love being tossed across the dojo and making uke fly like an airplane but these connection exercises are really cool.

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Cherie, your description made me immediately think of Larry Novick's "kinesthetic invisibility"... indeed something to strive for.
That's an interesting idea and a perfect way to describe it. Not familiar with who Larry Novick is but you have me intrigued.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 06:43 AM   #39
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
Thank you I intend to do so. These are all things that my teachers continue to encourage as well. I find these kinds of exercises endlessly fascinating.

I mean don;'t get me working I love being tossed across the dojo and making uke fly like an airplane but these connection exercises are really cool.
Aiki manifestation is all about connection have fun!

Greg
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 09:48 AM   #40
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,916
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
That's an interesting idea and a perfect way to describe it. Not familiar with who Larry Novick is but you have me intrigued.
If you are ever in the Santa Monica area, visit him at Ace Aikido.

He was very active in aikido-l in years past and taught at a couple of list seminars - most famously he threw a Very Large and Strong Person (TM) not disposed to tank for people and everything on the mat came to a standstill as the entire room shook with the impact followed by a huge roar from Martin of "Oh cool! Do it AGAIN!"

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #41
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,117
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
since the thread on Ikeda sensei demonstrating was closed, i didn't finished point #3. just want to cover #3 as i stated so folks wouldn't feel jib. for those who wanted to know #1 and #2, you can go here http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...t=19184&page=6
just skip over all the junks (mine included).

to recap the three points: connected, unity, and move your inside.

move your inside doesn't mean that you are going to flip your kidneys around or turn your spleen up-side-down or making faces with your large and small intestines. although, if you can do that, please let me know how and i declare you alien and ship you to Area 51 (it does exist. .... does too!)

if you use Tohei's keep the one point model, then you know the one point is the hara/dantien, where your belly always itch and you can't scratch it while in front of ladies. so if you think of the one point located below your navel and a bit inward of your belly. imagine the one point expands and be as big as a tennis ball. now imagine threads extend from the tennis ball's surface and connect to various part of your body, for example, a thread with one end anchor on the surface of the ball and the other to your right palm. so if i want to move my palm, i just rotate the ball. the thread would pull and your palm move with the pull. now, since there are lots of threads on the surface of the ball, if the ball rotate and/or move in any direction, various parts of your body, the ones that had thread connection, move as well. thus the phrase "one moves all move". and if you view the ball as your dantien/hara, then the process called "dantien/hara movement", i.e. "move your inside".

for untrained or newly trained folks in this arena, instead of a ball, they have a point or small ball, say a golf ball. since the golf ball surface is small, it doesn't have a whole lot of surface area which mean it doesn't have a whole lot of threads connecting to various parts of your body. better trained folks, have larger ball, thus larger surface area and more threads, i.e. more body simultaneously control. essentially, you take Tohei's one point and expand it into a ball and move it around.

since we have #1 (connected) and #2 (unity), we are one and connected, 4-legged animal (donkey) and i am the head , as i "move my inside", you would move as well. however, the movement doesn't register with uke's perception, because uke's expecting power through the contact point. sort of imagine the threads are now extending into uke's body.

so there, i have done as i said. you folks can debate or whatever (pick #2).

*disclaimer before folks asking what sort of ball i have. i got tiny ball (being asian and all) *
Dear Phi, Would i be right in saying this article is a load of Ball---S?Phi,are you on ganja ,magic mushrooms or a doughnut overdose?I reckon you are a bit of a space cadet,a nice one but still a refugee from Star Trek, Cheers, Joe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 10:57 AM   #42
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 307
Germany
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Phi, Would i be right in saying this article is a load of Ball---S?.
No. You are just missing his point entirely. Maybe try not to insult anybody while you do so.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 03:54 AM   #43
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,117
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
No. You are just missing his point entirely. Maybe try not to insult anybody while you do so.
Dear Nicholas,
Having a bad day are we?For what it its worth [one euro ]I was just joking in my blog.It would appear that Teutonic humour is not on the same waveband as we Brits.No doubt you will see this message as insulting to you.All I can say is lighten up Nicholas , if I wished to insult anybody [including you ] I would use slightly harsher terminology.Guten Tag , Joe.
Ps Since you appear to know what point I am missing , why not drop me a line and give me the benefit of your knowledge?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 06:36 AM   #44
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 307
Germany
Offline
Re: "move your inside"

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Nicholas,
Having a bad day are we?For what it its worth [one euro ]I was just joking in my blog.It would appear that Teutonic humour is not on the same waveband as we Brits.No doubt you will see this message as insulting to you.All I can say is lighten up Nicholas , if I wished to insult anybody [including you ] I would use slightly harsher terminology.Guten Tag , Joe.
Ps Since you appear to know what point I am missing , why not drop me a line and give me the benefit of your knowledge?
Ah, too bad a I cannot put on my worst German accent in writing. Joe, you asked a question, you got an answer, and since you have a history of couching your unwillingness to engage with even the possibility of internal work in "humour", dont be surprised. If, of course, you take the internal work that Phi is outlining as a real and interesting possibility, you have my heartfelt apologies.

I cannot state his point any simpler than he did. I could subtract his humour, but then again, that would play your national stereotypes in a way I cannot allow, so I wont do it.

Last edited by Nicholas Eschenbruch : 05-06-2012 at 06:38 AM. Reason: peace
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:42 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate