Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Mary Malmros wrote: This is always such a great "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic.

... there's an absolute in here I'm sure - what would we humans do without such quests?

My senior student hangs his hakama, and doesn't care to learn how to fold it. One of my other students doesn't wear one, but is interested in learning how to fold it. Sometimes, she'll fold it for me if I'm answering questions after class, or I'll fold it myself while she watches.

Hanna Björk wrote: Nobody calls them "sensei" at home either. Not when talking Swedish.

Yes, I know, we don't do that here either. Or in Sweden. Just using the word here on aikiweb when talking about my teachers...

My first Aikido teacher expected the senior student to sit in seiza immediately after class and wait for him to hand them his hakama. Then it had better be done by the time he got done changing and you better still be sitting in seiza where he handed it to you with both hands still holding the thing. He'd take it, feel it to see if it was flat enough and either put it on his desk, or flop it open and tell you to do it again if he could feel any bulges.

That's stupid. Really stupid, although I do fold a mighty tidy hakama now.

I have offered to fold people's hakama, but mostly as a convenience or a show of respect, sort of like saying, "Hey, you're busy and I know you need to get going, so I can fold that for you..." It's similar to in my sword school when I've offered to clean my teacher's shinken after class because I knew he was in a hurry. It's not grovelling, it's just being polite.

Alissa Götzinger wrote: Yes, I know, we don't do that here either. Or in Sweden. Just using the word here on aikiweb when talking about my teachers...

Okey dokey. I always find it so weird when people who I know don't adress their teacher "sensei" adapt that speach to adapt to Americans. But I don't find it a big deal.

Some yudansha fold their hakama themselves and others don't fold theirs at all. But everyone does his/her own only.

Only yudansha wear hakama, so first time you fold a hakama will be your own after becoming shodan. So with your "expert" status in Aikido you are at least a beginner in something (folding a hakama) -> you'll realize probabely a bit later that you are quite a beginner in Aikido, too...

I guess I'm an exception in our group: I usually offer my teacher to fold his hakama after class.

@Mary: I'm enjoying this discussion because for me it is not the usual "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic, but everyone just states how it is done where he trains and doesn't comment in this way on how others described their way...

Simone

Thank you everyone for such great responses. I'm trying to respond to my favorites below:

Hugh Beyer wrote: After class, usually the most senior student will fold our sensei's hakama. This seems to me right and proper. After a class taught by our most senior student, I heard someone offer to fold his hakama. He responded, "Go away. You're embarrassing me." This also seemed to me right and proper.

I laughed my ass off on this one- mainly because it was so on the nose. Our senior student has been practicing Aikido with Sensei since 1990; he's a great teacher in his own right. Although he's modest that he would probably say that to us if we asked.

Jun Akiyama wrote: Here's a poll I took back in 2003: Who folds your aikido teacher's hakama after s/he teaches class? - 3/1/2003 http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=154 -- Jun

Thank you Jun for this post. It was nice to kind of get a glimpse at the numbers. I'm not too shocked to find my dojo is in the minority in this poll mainly because I assume most of the people who responded where from America or other English speaking countries. I wouldn't be suprised if it was the opposite in Japan.

Christian Moses wrote: My first Aikido teacher expected the senior student to sit in seiza immediately after class and wait for him to hand them his hakama. Then it had better be done by the time he got done changing and you better still be sitting in seiza where he handed it to you with both hands still holding the thing. He'd take it, feel it to see if it was flat enough and either put it on his desk, or flop it open and tell you to do it again if he could feel any bulges. That's stupid. Really stupid, although I do fold a mighty tidy hakama now. I have offered to fold people's hakama, but mostly as a convenience or a show of respect, sort of like saying, "Hey, you're busy and I know you need to get going, so I can fold that for you..." It's similar to in my sword school when I've offered to clean my teacher's shinken after class because I knew he was in a hurry. It's not grovelling, it's just being polite.

Christian, I don't know how anyone tolerated that. Even at their worst, my drill sergeant in ROTC showed me more respect than that. I'm fine with the two handed bow to give the hakama; when I folded our Sensei's hakama on Monday happily did that. But I know Sensei would never throw it back at me.

I agree with your final statement: it is not groveling, it is being polite.

Simone Koerner wrote: @Mary: I'm enjoying this discussion because for me it is not the usual "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic, but everyone just states how it is done where he trains and doesn't comment in this way on how others described their way... Simone

Simone, I couldn't agree more. It is nice for everyone just to say, well I do this but it dosen't matter if you don't. Usually there is such heated argument over such things.

Simone Koerner wrote: @Mary: I'm enjoying this discussion because for me it is not the usual "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic, but everyone just states how it is done where he trains and doesn't comment in this way on how others described their way...

Really? Well, just let the thread go on for another page or two, and you're sure to see what I'm talking about. You could start by looking at the post right above mine.

i do not even fold mine! i leave this for later, at the cosiness of my home.

I folded up my previous sensei's on occasion when he asked. That was usually when he was about to travel for a seminar. He usually just hung his up like the rest of the yudansha at the dojo.

I suppose I would if we were required to wear them. Being the senior student, I would almost expect to do that. Since we do not, I have never had the experience. Most Tomiki practitioners do not typically wear them because of the mat work we do, it could get in the way. However my sensei has informed me that on "special" ocassions we will put them on (black belts only).