Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2012, 05:38 PM   #26
bothhandsclapping
Dojo: Both Hands Clapping
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 40
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
This is always such a great "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic.
... there's an absolute in here I'm sure - what would we humans do without such quests?

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 09:53 PM   #27
James Davis
 
James Davis's Avatar
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

My senior student hangs his hakama, and doesn't care to learn how to fold it. One of my other students doesn't wear one, but is interested in learning how to fold it. Sometimes, she'll fold it for me if I'm answering questions after class, or I'll fold it myself while she watches.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 11:39 AM   #28
amoeba
Dojo: Aikido Netzwerk
Location: Düsseldorf, NRW
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 80
Germany
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
Nobody calls them "sensei" at home either. Not when talking Swedish.
Yes, I know, we don't do that here either. Or in Sweden. Just using the word here on aikiweb when talking about my teachers...
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 01:28 PM   #29
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 906
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

My first Aikido teacher expected the senior student to sit in seiza immediately after class and wait for him to hand them his hakama. Then it had better be done by the time he got done changing and you better still be sitting in seiza where he handed it to you with both hands still holding the thing. He'd take it, feel it to see if it was flat enough and either put it on his desk, or flop it open and tell you to do it again if he could feel any bulges.

That's stupid. Really stupid, although I do fold a mighty tidy hakama now.

I have offered to fold people's hakama, but mostly as a convenience or a show of respect, sort of like saying, "Hey, you're busy and I know you need to get going, so I can fold that for you..." It's similar to in my sword school when I've offered to clean my teacher's shinken after class because I knew he was in a hurry. It's not grovelling, it's just being polite.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
TNBBC Blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 05:07 PM   #30
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Alissa Götzinger wrote: View Post
Yes, I know, we don't do that here either. Or in Sweden. Just using the word here on aikiweb when talking about my teachers...
Okey dokey. I always find it so weird when people who I know don't adress their teacher "sensei" adapt that speach to adapt to Americans. But I don't find it a big deal.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 01:04 AM   #31
Simone
Dojo: Augsburg/Haunstetten
Location: Germany
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 69
Germany
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Some yudansha fold their hakama themselves and others don't fold theirs at all. But everyone does his/her own only.

Only yudansha wear hakama, so first time you fold a hakama will be your own after becoming shodan. So with your "expert" status in Aikido you are at least a beginner in something (folding a hakama) -> you'll realize probabely a bit later that you are quite a beginner in Aikido, too...

I guess I'm an exception in our group: I usually offer my teacher to fold his hakama after class.

@Mary: I'm enjoying this discussion because for me it is not the usual "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic, but everyone just states how it is done where he trains and doesn't comment in this way on how others described their way...

Simone
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 10:44 AM   #32
Zoe S Toth
Dojo: Seidokan Aikido of South Carolina
Location: Columbia, SC
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 38
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Thank you everyone for such great responses. I'm trying to respond to my favorites below:

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
After class, usually the most senior student will fold our sensei's hakama. This seems to me right and proper.

After a class taught by our most senior student, I heard someone offer to fold his hakama. He responded, "Go away. You're embarrassing me." This also seemed to me right and proper.
I laughed my ass off on this one- mainly because it was so on the nose. Our senior student has been practicing Aikido with Sensei since 1990; he's a great teacher in his own right. Although he's modest that he would probably say that to us if we asked.

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Here's a poll I took back in 2003:

Who folds your aikido teacher's hakama after s/he teaches class? - 3/1/2003
http://www.aikiweb.com/polls/results.html?poll_id=154

-- Jun
Thank you Jun for this post. It was nice to kind of get a glimpse at the numbers. I'm not too shocked to find my dojo is in the minority in this poll mainly because I assume most of the people who responded where from America or other English speaking countries. I wouldn't be suprised if it was the opposite in Japan.

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote: View Post
My first Aikido teacher expected the senior student to sit in seiza immediately after class and wait for him to hand them his hakama. Then it had better be done by the time he got done changing and you better still be sitting in seiza where he handed it to you with both hands still holding the thing. He'd take it, feel it to see if it was flat enough and either put it on his desk, or flop it open and tell you to do it again if he could feel any bulges.

That's stupid. Really stupid, although I do fold a mighty tidy hakama now.

I have offered to fold people's hakama, but mostly as a convenience or a show of respect, sort of like saying, "Hey, you're busy and I know you need to get going, so I can fold that for you..." It's similar to in my sword school when I've offered to clean my teacher's shinken after class because I knew he was in a hurry. It's not grovelling, it's just being polite.
Christian, I don't know how anyone tolerated that. Even at their worst, my drill sergeant in ROTC showed me more respect than that. I'm fine with the two handed bow to give the hakama; when I folded our Sensei's hakama on Monday happily did that. But I know Sensei would never throw it back at me.

I agree with your final statement: it is not groveling, it is being polite.

Quote:
Simone Koerner wrote: View Post
@Mary: I'm enjoying this discussion because for me it is not the usual "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic, but everyone just states how it is done where he trains and doesn't comment in this way on how others described their way...

Simone
Simone, I couldn't agree more. It is nice for everyone just to say, well I do this but it dosen't matter if you don't. Usually there is such heated argument over such things.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 11:08 AM   #33
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,800
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Simone Koerner wrote: View Post
@Mary: I'm enjoying this discussion because for me it is not the usual "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic, but everyone just states how it is done where he trains and doesn't comment in this way on how others described their way...
Really? Well, just let the thread go on for another page or two, and you're sure to see what I'm talking about. You could start by looking at the post right above mine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 06:22 AM   #34
SteliosPapadakis
Dojo: aikido-dojo-nippos
Location: Crete
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 97
Greece
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

i do not even fold mine! i leave this for later, at the cosiness of my home.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2012, 07:13 AM   #35
ninjaqutie
 
ninjaqutie's Avatar
Dojo: Searching for a new home
Location: Delaware (<3 still in Oregon!)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,003
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

I folded up my previous sensei's on occasion when he asked. That was usually when he was about to travel for a seminar. He usually just hung his up like the rest of the yudansha at the dojo.

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 02:52 PM   #36
Edgecrusher
 
Edgecrusher's Avatar
Dojo: Tampa, FL
Location: Tampa, Florida
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 76
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

I suppose I would if we were required to wear them. Being the senior student, I would almost expect to do that. Since we do not, I have never had the experience. Most Tomiki practitioners do not typically wear them because of the mat work we do, it could get in the way. However my sensei has informed me that on "special" ocassions we will put them on (black belts only).
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 03:14 PM   #37
Theijuiel
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 12
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

As uchideshi, we always fold our sensei's hakama. If there are more than one uchideshi, then we wait as sensei removes the hakama and she will hand it to whoever she feels should fold it. When we have guest instructors, we quietly wait for the guest to remove the hakama and inquire if they would like it folded, then we fold our chief instructor's hakama since she will toss the hakama on the mat knowing it will be folded.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 08:51 AM   #38
apomeraniec
Dojo: Aikido Siglo XXI
Location: Buenos Aires
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6
Argentina
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Some dojos care more about Japanese traditions and some just not.

I don't believe that folding you sensei's hakama will make a difference in the way you practice Aikido.

In my experience, I have never seen my sensei asking someone to fold his hakama.
I would like to add the fact that my Sensei is not Japanese. Probably to a Japanese sensei that will be as important as teaching techniques.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 10:23 AM   #39
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,078
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Alejandro Pomeraniec wrote: View Post
Some dojos care more about Japanese traditions and some just not.

I don't believe that folding you sensei's hakama will make a difference in the way you practice Aikido.

In my experience, I have never seen my sensei asking someone to fold his hakama.
I would like to add the fact that my Sensei is not Japanese. Probably to a Japanese sensei that will be as important as teaching techniques.
I'll have to note that in over a decade of training in Japan, in a number of different dojo, I very rarely saw anybody fold a teacher's hakama. For the most part (99%+), they folded their own.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 06:44 AM   #40
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,800
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Lather, rinse, repeat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 07:03 AM   #41
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,800
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

OK...in a more productive vein:

This thread has taken a predictable and pointless direction, i.e., that of trying to establish which local custom represents the Path of Correct Behavior. I think, though, that the real intent behind the original question was probably less to figure out what the PoCB is, and more to figure out what's the right thing to do. I think that in this as in so many other things, "the right thing to do" is a matter of local custom. When you understand that, are aware that things are done differently in different places, and develop a sensitivity for local customs, you can travel with ease. If you don't get that, you'll just go through the world believing that everybody else is Just Plain Wrong -- a belief that some people find comforting, but you sure don't learn much that way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:09 PM   #42
Linda Eskin
 
Linda Eskin's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of San Diego, San Diego, California
Location: San Diego County, California
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 326
United_States
Offline
Do symbol Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

I see it's an old question, but of course is a perpetual one, too, with new people asking it all the time. So here's my $0.02 worth:

1. Does this happen in your dojo?
Sensei usually rolls his up and puts it in the corner of his desk. However, if he is busy speaking to a guest or visiting instructor, or has to head out right after class, one of us will watch for him to take it off, take it from him, and fold it for him. I confess to having completely spaced on noticing the opportunity more than once - an occasion for minor mortification.

Also, if Sensei has left his hakama draped over a chair or something we will make sure it's folded before we go home.

2. If the senior student doesn't do it (ie has to leave early OR just dosen't do it) does it fall on the second most senior, ect.?
It's not particularly a rank thing at our dojo. (Or at least I hope it's not - maybe I've been stepping on toes!) The yudansha have their own to fold (only yudansha wear hakama at our dojo), so usually someone around 2nd or 1st kyu will do it. No one lines up - that just seems silly. If someone is standing there waiting to take it, nobody else needs to bother. Sometimes a lower-ranking student will recruit one of the yudansha, collect Sensei's hakama, and then get the yudansha's help/supervision in folding it.

3. Do you only fold the Sensei of the classes hakama? (Ie if there are two yudansha would my boyfriend and I each fold one hakama?)
We would only fold Sensei's hakama, and of course extend the courtesy to any visiting teacher as well. I would also offer at a seminar, but usually there are more senior students who know the instructor already waiting.

As others have mentioned, I consider a courtesy, a convenience, and an expression of gratitude and respect - not a show of deference or subservience.

Linda Eskin - Facebook | My AikiBlog

"Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train." - Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #43
Adam Huss
 
Adam Huss's Avatar
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 656
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
This is always such a great "this is how it's done and you're a dolt/oaf/cult member if you do it any other way" topic.
I've been away from here for a long time, just came back for a peak, and it seems like this is all any thread ends up being. That's too bad. If we all just get stitched pleats and hang our hakama, can we all be friends then?

I like the idea of having high kyu student fold hakama, whoever posted that earlier,...it seems like a good way to learn, I had no clue when I first got my hakama how to fold it. That would have helped me out. I'm still not good at it so I need the practice.

One explanation I've heard is student's fold their teacher's hakama so the teacher can spend that time taking care of dojo business or talking with students after class.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 10:02 AM   #44
OwlMatt
 
OwlMatt's Avatar
Dojo: Milwaukee Aikikai
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 401
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

I have been in clubs where the folding of the instructor's hakama is the way students learn to fold the hakama. That seems sensible enough to me. I've never done it, though, so I'm probably going to be consulting YouTube someday when I get close to shodan.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 07:27 PM   #45
tarik
 
tarik's Avatar
Dojo: Iwae Dojo
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 516
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

And then, just for fun...

... there are those who don't always wear hakama, except on formal or special occasions.

Hell, in my own dojo, I've been guilty of bowing into class in the middle of the week sometimes and doing nothing more than taking off my shoes and emptying my pockets before starting class.

Am I kicked out of the club? Is my aikido now less "real"?

(sorry, I guess I was bored)

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #46
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,800
United_States
Offline
Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post
And then, just for fun...

... there are those who don't always wear hakama, except on formal or special occasions.
We had some no-hakama nights last summer when it was exceptionally hot and humid. It was awesome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:29 PM   #47
barron
Dojo: Calgary Aikikai
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 57
Canada
Offline
Smile Re: Do you fold your Sensei's hakama?

Before our Sensei ( Inaba Sensei 6th dan Calgary Aikikai) passed away it was considered an honour to fold his hakama. It was also the way we learned so when we finally earned ours we knew how he expected us all to fold. At the beginning as a 2nd kyu it took me 15 to 20 minutes to get it just right, although he never commented on a good or bad job. It was always a bit of a challenge especially to get the belts just right as they were "extra" long, but I finally got it right.

When I went to Japan two years ago as an uchi-deshi for one month at our Shihan's dojo, I swept the leaves up outside the dojo, I cleaned the dojo every morning before six am practice, folded or hung to air his hakama after each session and carried his bag if we visited another of his dojos.

I still owe my original sensei, Inaba Sensei, so much that I would have continued to show him my thanks and respect by folding to this day.

Since his passing ( 4 years ago) all our instructors, including myself, fold our own except on rare occasions when a 1st kyu wants to practice before they get theirs. Somedays I do a good job .... on others I try again the next practice.

Andrew Barron
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should I Fold My Sensei's Hakama? caelifera Training 75 06-06-2010 04:54 AM
How to fold a hakama Beholder Humor 3 11-06-2007 07:11 AM
Wearing Hakama Shouri (Steve) General 65 12-15-2006 07:47 PM
Hakama FAQ DaveO Humor 24 11-02-2004 05:22 PM
Hakama or no hakama. nmarques General 40 06-13-2002 06:57 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:50 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate