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Old 03-21-2012, 09:16 AM   #76
Chris Li
 
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
I also found it interesting that Shioda was pretty clear in saying that this isn't a fighting stance, but was to "instill the center line".
Inoue (the Yoshinkan one) used to say much the same thing - that the kamae was not really "correct", but that they found that it developed the center line more quickly.

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-21-2012, 03:09 PM   #77
Eric Joyce
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Reading this thread got me thinking of something that Mark Murray had put together a few years ago worth reading. Here is the link: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/archiv...p/t-14340.html

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:20 PM   #78
gregstec
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Allen Beebe wrote: View Post
Wish I could learn to spell!
One of the hidden side affects of training with Dan and learning his aiki is that you get the dark side as well and will subconsciously start to spell as well as he does

Greg
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:56 PM   #79
Akeman1963
 
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Dave Lewin wrote: View Post
i know.

there are indeed other videos that "debunk" chi/ki. but do they? or do they just debunk the people shown? (frankly, i dont know what to make of it..)

the thing about this guy that is interesting is that he initially didnt want to share, and ended up going back to the shadows as it were after he felt ashamed for trying to promote it; would someone trying to gain fame etc. do such a thing?...

there are some videos of the foo-foo ki guys doing no touch throws, etc., but then, there is also some footage of o-sensei doing this..hmm...

my challenging questions for us (or maybe just for me):
1. would o-sensei's ki "powers" have stood up to scientific 'mythbusters'?
2. did his legend have anything to do with this stuff, or was he 'unbeatable' based strictly on physical budo skill?
3. how does the answer to #2 have implications for aikido training?

-dave
******************

My opinion is:

1) yes
2) yes, and no not just physical
3) O'Sensei's students have witnessed his power and admitted to not fully exposing themselves to his power; it is also not about winning and losing, beating or getting beat, it is about harmonizing

I know little, but I do believe. If you speak of what others cannot accept then it is not harmonious.
Those who achieve enlightenment risk losing it by speaking of it.
The spiritual path must be explored to gain your own answers.

My apologies, Kevin

Last edited by Akeman1963 : 03-21-2012 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:25 PM   #80
DH
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote:
I also found it interesting that Shioda was pretty clear in saying that this isn't a fighting stance, but was to "instill the center line".
Inoue (the Yoshinkan one) used to say much the same thing - that the kamae was not really "correct", but that they found that it developed the center line more quickly.

Best,

Chris
It doesn't matter to me who said what...those stances will never instill a center line and you will be knocked off of it by those who truly know what a center line is...every time..... done and done.
There is a superior method and that isn't it and that is all there is to it.

I know the typical budo refrain of give everyone a hug and applaud their efforts as equal. My only comment would be that it is fortunate we live in the hobby era of Budo instead of the professional era. In the era when this type of "advice" cost you your very life, this "advice" (if it ever even existed back then) vanished along with you, leaving the people with "good advice" to advance better teaching methodologies.

This is also an era of better education and access. It's only a matter of time before the better teaching wins by exposure. Against real information for moving from center....the bad advice simply fails, over and over and over.
It was always this way when people tested each other freely. How could it be any other way?
Dan

Last edited by DH : 03-21-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:52 PM   #81
Chris Li
 
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
It doesn't matter to me who said what...those stances will never instill a center line and you will be knocked off of it by those who truly know what a center line is...every time..... done and done.
There is a superior method and that isn't it and that is all there is to it.

I know the typical budo refrain of give everyone a hug and applaud their efforts as equal. My only comment would be that it is fortunate we live in the hobby era of Budo instead of the professional era. In the era when this type of "advice" cost you your very life, this "advice" (if it ever even existed back then) vanished along with you, leaving the people with "good advice" to advance better teaching methodologies.

This is also an era of better education and access. It's only a matter of time before the better teaching wins by exposure. Against real information for moving from center....the bad advice simply fails, over and over and over.
It was always this way when people tested each other freely. How could it be any other way?
Dan
Well, that's the real trap - that things work well for the limited situation for which they are developed. So everything seems OK until...

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-22-2012, 08:03 AM   #82
Allen Beebe
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Well, that's the real trap - that things work well for the limited situation for which they are developed. So everything seems OK until...

Best,

Chris
Classic "Karate Kid" pitfall: "If do right, no can defence!"

Works just fine . . . Until the second episode!

(Watch all the episodes and you'll prove you can "eat bitter." Get the tshirt and you'll prove your last name is Popkin! )

[btw doesn't Danny Kamekona own a restraunt in Seattle where certain Bad Budoka Bunnies hang?]

~ Allen Beebe
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:49 AM   #83
Allen Beebe
Location: Portland, OR
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Quote:
Allen Beebe wrote: View Post
Classic "Karate Kid" pitfall: "If do right, no can defence!"

Works just fine . . . Until the second episode!

(Watch all the episodes and you'll prove you can "eat bitter." Get the tshirt and you'll prove your last name is Popkin! )

[btw doesn't Danny Kamekona own a restraunt in Seattle where certain Bad Budoka Bunnies hang?]
My bad. It is Yuji Okumoto in KK2 and owner of Kona Kitchen!

http://www.konakitchen.com/about-yuji.html

~ Allen Beebe
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:15 AM   #84
kvnmcwebn
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Re: Zhangzhuang could help Aikido practise

Its hard to find a good teacher for this stuff but if you do you're in luck. Over few lessons I had with an Yi Chaun master I spent hours try to "empty the chest". Afterwards my power increased. Before the master I was learning with went back to china he told me, you can do standing on your own but it won't be Yi Chuan. That is to say that it requires constant posture correction, both internal and external, from a master to progress. You can't correct your own deviations in posture because you don't realize that you have them, at least the subtle ones. GM Chen Xiaowang is a great teacher of standing meditation, he can correct posture inside and out. The thing about standing is that your body isn't moving but your energy is opened up big time, that's why the posture has to be perfect. Posture correction from a master feels like getting accupuncture, all of the blocks of chi flow are released.
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