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Old 03-22-2012, 08:36 AM   #26
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post

Oh, if only this were true...
When it comes to tension and letting go of tension my experience (as an Alexander technique teacher) is that the body does do what we tell it to. The problem is knowing exactly what to tell it to do!

Telling it to "relax" isn't exact enough to be very useful. Unless with practice "relax" has become short hand for a list of useful things that lead to "relaxing". And even then relaxing is of limited usefulness IMO.

Pauliina
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:38 AM   #27
Mark Freeman
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Andrew Bedford wrote: View Post

All that is required to stand and move is the body`s own natural posture alignment, not strength and tension. This is especially obvious when we are in hanmi or kamae, whatever you use for the word stance.
Hi Andy,

I'm not sure that the body has a natural postural alignment. Most people I meet need quite a lot of 'correction' in their posture to make them anywhere near aligned.

I have gained a more 'natural' posture from a combination of Aikido, Alexander Technique, Yoga, and I/S training. All of the instruction to get to this 'natural' state felt entirely un-natural at first.

For me, relaxation is every bit as much about mind as it is body. A correct 'stance' without the correct 'mind' is like a pretty cardboard cut out.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:55 AM   #28
Mark Freeman
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Most of ppl who are telling 'relaxation' stories have no idea what they are talking about. They develop sloppy, weak body, horrible posture and very poor techniques and you can see it on their videos. So forget about relaxation, develop strong power of techniques.
I really enjoy the sweeping generalisations that I read here on AW.

IMVHO - Real power of technique comes from relaxation,

I do agree however, that sloppy body, horrible posture and poor technique are to be avoided, but they are not the result of 'relaxation', they are the result of poor teaching.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:19 AM   #29
Basia Halliop
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Canada
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Re: Relaxation

I only know what I've personally found helpful in the past couple of years, YMMV...

People helping me find a more correct position and posture so that the technique is working closer to how it should so that I am less drawn to start (usually unconsciously) trying to muscle it. I.e., learning better alternatives.

Ukemi... by which I mean both falls and how to move safely when people are moving me with locks, etc.... It feels like it requires a certain kind of alert relaxation (extension?) that's not tension but is quite different from being limp either.

For me just saying to stop doing something (e.g. in this case stop muscling it) usually doesn't work so well until I already understand a better way and just need to be reminded that I'm going back to old habits.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:15 AM   #30
lbb
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Graham Norris wrote: View Post
I thank you very much in your responses to my question i will certainly take them on board over time as i train in aikido , if i did not make myself clear in my original post i do apologize the relax element i referred to was part tension but this is not done on purpose as i dont think i am tense ?? and the rushing of techniques more so in in randori and i know it is only early in my stage of learning after 4 months ( but it comes more from excitement than fear )
Again, why guess? Why the question marks?

Who is telling you to relax?
Is someone else telling you, or are you just telling yourself?
If the former, why don't you ask them what they mean by "relax", and why you need to be doing it?
If the latter, what do you mean by "relax", and why is it a goal for you?

"If you don't know where you're going, any road will do." First figure out where you're going (what "relax" is), and why you want to go there (or IF you want to go there)...then, and only then, figure out how to get there.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #31
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
I really enjoy the sweeping generalisations that I read here on AW.

IMVHO - Real power of technique comes from relaxation,

I do agree however, that sloppy body, horrible posture and poor technique are to be avoided, but they are not the result of 'relaxation', they are the result of poor teaching.

regards,

Mark
Hi Mark,
I agree about a poor teaching. It is evident when somebody after 4 months of practice worry about 'relaxation'. He can't even distinguish between right and left side, can't walk correctly, doesn't have ANY decent body skills(let's say rolling forward), and he is talking about 'relaxation'!! Go figure! Somebody had to tell him about it - I bet it was his teacher. Or may be he read some poor books type of "Dynamic sphere"......who knows...

In any case my conclusion " back to the basis" is quite correct in this case, what do you think?

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:52 PM   #32
TheAikidoka
 
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Andy,

I'm not sure that the body has a natural postural alignment. Most people I meet need quite a lot of 'correction' in their posture to make them anywhere near aligned.

I have gained a more 'natural' posture from a combination of Aikido, Alexander Technique, Yoga, and I/S training. All of the instruction to get to this 'natural' state felt entirely un-natural at first.

For me, relaxation is every bit as much about mind as it is body. A correct 'stance' without the correct 'mind' is like a pretty cardboard cut out.

regards,

Mark
Hi Mark, agreed totally. However I was merely pointing out what he could do right now, to relax. Also to have correct body and posture alignment, you need to be relaxed. Wether doing Aikido or just getting up and moving round.

I too have had to re-train students how, walk, stand,sit and walk, and yes it can take them, along time for it to sink in, if they cannot relax.

In Budo

Andy B
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:14 AM   #33
LinTal
Dojo: Aikido Terrey Hills
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Graham Norris wrote: View Post

... Do any of my fellow student of aikido have and practices or techniques they would gladly share to help me with my quest to be totally relaxed while training etc ...

graham ....
Hi Graham, that one's easy.

Do 50 pushups and 20 pullups. If unable to, keep at it until your arms give way. If able to, double the number. Then start class.

Last edited by LinTal : 03-23-2012 at 03:20 AM.

The world changes when you do.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:16 AM   #34
LinTal
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Re: Relaxation

Not joking btw.

Try it sometime!

The world changes when you do.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:28 AM   #35
phitruong
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Re: Relaxation

was going to mention kama sutra for relaxation, but i think i'll hold my tongue.

i heard thai massage help relaxation as well.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:42 PM   #36
TheAikidoka
 
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
was going to mention kama sutra for relaxation, but i think i'll hold my tongue. .
Now that`s relaxed right there ROFLMAO

Andy B
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:25 AM   #37
TheAikidoka
 
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
A simple progressive relaxation technique is to lay down, breathe in and tense everything, breathe out - let go - say the word "relax". Keep practicing until you can exhale, "relax", and the body follows. Its a good way to begin to feel the difference between tension and relaxation.

Standing Alexander Technique - lift up from the middle of the head and down from your center. Breathe, body scan, sense any tension, exhale, "relax". Also good for spinal alignment.

Standing meditation - tree hugging - can help trust the body structure and alignment to hold you up rather than the muscles holding you up.

Tenkan, tenkan, tenkan - letting go of tension.

IMHO, the real internal secret to relaxation is to find out what internal mental belief or habit we use to create and maintain the body tension to begin with - challenge it - let it go.

Hope this helps in some small way.
Hi Lynn,
That was really cool I just tried that.
always and everything you read and everywhere you go, the only consistent rule I have come across is that you must be relaxed. They don't say tense first to build the energy, then relax and let go. Actually, verbalising the words let go, has a weird effect on the body, it stops resisting :-)

hope you don't mind if I steal this one

Domo Arigato

Andy B

P.s no idea what the Alexander technique I've seen you guys discussing on here, going to google now to find out.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:52 AM   #38
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Relaxation

Alexander technique is good stuff. I was introduced to it several years ago by Pauliina. Lots of literature, but you need a coach cause your mind will lie to you. Coach can see things u can't perceive u are doing.

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Old 03-24-2012, 05:55 AM   #39
SeiserL
 
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Re: Relaxation

Quote:
Andrew Bedford wrote: View Post
Actually, verbalising the words let go, has a weird effect on the body, it stops resisting :-)
The simultaneous exhale, relax, and verbalization creates an associated anchor/trigger. Then when you do any of the three, you get the other two.

Just takes some practice to get them associated.

We can actually get pretty creative about what state of mind/body we want to access and activate.

Glad it worked for you.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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