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Old 03-21-2012, 12:37 AM   #26
Benjamin Green
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
It's bad that I learned that violence and aggression doesn't work for self defense?
Well it's certainly bad you learned force doesn't work for self-defence, considering all the times I've used it and its worked fine.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
What should I have learned from that experience then?
Don't escalate a dominance contest to a survival contest, unless there's something very valuable that you cannot attain by other, less risky, means.

Fighting back against bullies isn't about winning - though of course that's desirable - it's about making it cost the other guy something. If you'd fought them with your fists and lost, they'd still have been hurt, especially had you picked one of them and focused all your efforts on him, and that would have helped persuade them to stop. However, if your first move is to escalate the issue to the point where their only choices are to back off or to try to kill you, you may not like what happens.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
That I should make sure to stab the guy next time?
Stabbing a guy in the middle of a school is stupid. If you think the situation justifies lethal force, then you just go and do it. You don't wait for them to come for you, chances are by the time they do it will be too late.

You, however, were not in a situation where lethal force was in any way justified.

Dangerous situations.... In my experience most of the dangerous ones are too well documented for you to learn much that's new from them. You don't learn how to drive from nearly crashing, you don't learn how to shoot from picking up a gun in the middle of a fight.... Combat just puts the edge on things, and keeps the nonsense that people who've never been in a fight waffle on about down to a reasonable level. There's very little nonsense when you can just step out the door and tell someone to prove it, or when your experience of the problem the suggested solution is meant to apply to is such that you can see it obviously wouldn't.

The rest of it's just stuff you learn about how people respond to things emotionally, and a slight sharpening of the 'something's about to go down' instinct. I don't think I could break that down into encounters.

Some people just can't take the idea that fighting's a gamble, that they'll never be good enough to be assured of victory. They tend to take even worse the news that if they habitually use violence to solve their problems they're going to end up meeting people who are better at violence. True misery is the people I've seen who end up dwelling on those sorts of things.

Some people end up going off the deep end. Some people like it just enough to be good at it.

Personally I feel sort of like I'm floating when I'm in a fight, this incredible feeling of calm - you think incredibly quickly in those times. Though it's more becoming aware of your options than verbally thinking it. If I'm nervous beforehand, or preoccupied with something that drops out of the picture immediately once my instincts start calling out for attention.

But, equally, I've seen people go completely to pieces. It's hard to tell which way a person's going to go, though history and general attitude tends to be a fairly good indicator. The guy who says, 'Well in a fight I'll...' and coldly believes it. The quiet guy sitting at the back of a group, planning what he's going to be doing in a few moments? They generally do quite well if you get them in a fight or into combat. It's the people who go, 'I'm not sure,' or who say 'I'd do X' but doubt it deep down in their hearts, who tend to get messed up by it. If someone says 'I'm not sure I've got what it takes....' the answer is probably, 'no.'
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:26 AM   #27
Alec Corper
 
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Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
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Re: Dangerous Situations

I would strongly reccomend Rory Miller's books on dealing with violence. The mental aspects of martial training are at least as important, if not more so, than the physical. Someone not prepared to use their skills in an appropriate situation may as well not bother acquiring those skills in the first place. Knowing your "go" buttons according to your pre thought ethics, and giving yourself unequivocal permission to act is vital. This ranges from from kid's bullying to life or death scenarios. The angst in aikido about not using force is ridiculous. Read Shioda's "Aikido Shugyo" to see another take of aikido.
P.S. Kevin, you are not far from Holland, as a friend of Dan and Marc, you would be welcome.
Alec

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:37 PM   #28
Alic
Dojo: Sokushinkan Dojo, Vancouver
Location: Richmond, BC
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Benjamin Green wrote: View Post
Well it's certainly bad you learned force doesn't work for self-defence, considering all the times I've used it and its worked fine.

Don't escalate a dominance contest to a survival contest, unless there's something very valuable that you cannot attain by other, less risky, means.

Fighting back against bullies isn't about winning - though of course that's desirable - it's about making it cost the other guy something. If you'd fought them with your fists and lost, they'd still have been hurt, especially had you picked one of them and focused all your efforts on him, and that would have helped persuade them to stop. However, if your first move is to escalate the issue to the point where their only choices are to back off or to try to kill you, you may not like what happens.

Stabbing a guy in the middle of a school is stupid. If you think the situation justifies lethal force, then you just go and do it. You don't wait for them to come for you, chances are by the time they do it will be too late.

You, however, were not in a situation where lethal force was in any way justified.
Benjamin, please note that I never said force wasn't a good idea. If that was the case then instead of studying Aikido, I could just go and join a monastery, and be free of violence forever. Force is definately still on the table for me. The key thing I've learn from all my experiences is basically how to defuse dangerous situations, how to escape it, how to uphold myself to not look vulnerable, and how to protect myself. Force used to defend oneself isn't wrong, but if it's spiced with anger and hate, then you become the attacker instead of the victim.

I have to disagree about your thoughts on bullying though. I do agree about the portion regarding not trying to "win" per say. That's definately true, we're only trying to keep ourselves safe. However, in a school life situation, you don't have the choice of not ever meeting that person again, and if you don't gain a decisive victory over the bully, he (or she) may not ever leave you alone. However, if you attempt to prevent further clashes by trying to cost them something, immature folks like bullies are more likely to come back and try to damage you worse. I've had people I know get jumped because they won a fight against their attackers earlier. Small-minded individuals do not mind ganging up on you to get a victory.

This is why I think Aikido is a good way to deal with bullies. You win decisively and deceptively, but at the same time the opponent isn't badly hurt. Before, I didn't know how to even fight at all, so I was the only one that lost things (dignity, pride, ego, respect, self esteem, etc). They never got satisfied though, and always came back for more, even when I had none left to give. I knew there was only two way for this to end: either win hard, or die hard.

The scissors incident was definately regretful. I was quite dumb back in the days, and in a panic I had picked up the closest thing that could be a weapon and tried to hold the big and scary boys at bay. Never did I consider even then to harm them. I never fought at all and knew no violence beforehand, so it was too much of a shock for me to cope with. It was impossible for me to think about killing at all when all I can think about is how I'm going to die today. Thinking back, it was quite the wonder why I didn't die, as there were so many times where I could've been killed (such as the incident where they pushed me off the slide, about 1 story high drop. I got cut up bad). Dumb luck I guess...

Anyhow, everyone is a critic. I already got those talks from teachers that I can clearly see had no personal experience with bullying and the suffering it produces. It only looks like funny innocent teasing until you're the target.

I'm not trying to excuse myself from my previous action, because I think I wouldn't be who I am now without them. I learned not to be an attacker, because I knew how to victims feel. I think that is the most important thing I learn from my experiences.

I want to see what other people has experienced, and what they took away from their experiences. So if you got something at all, before or after Aikido, I would love to read about it. Maybe I can learn something from it too.

Cheers,

Alic

Last edited by Alic : 03-21-2012 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:52 PM   #29
Benjamin Green
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
Benjamin, please note that I never said force wasn't a good idea. If that was the case then instead of studying Aikido, I could just go and join a monastery, and be free of violence forever. Force is definately still on the table for me. The key thing I've learn from all my experiences is basically how to defuse dangerous situations, how to escape it, how to uphold myself to not look vulnerable, and how to protect myself.
My instinctive thought – based on how you've portrayed yourself in this thread, is to ask how sure you are that you haven't just learned to perceive threats where none exist. That you then think you've defused when nothing happens.

But as long as it works for you and you're comfortable with yourself. I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
I have to disagree about your thoughts on bullying though. I do agree about the portion regarding not trying to "win" per say. That's definately true, we're only trying to keep ourselves safe. However, in a school life situation, you don't have the choice of not ever meeting that person again, and if you don't gain a decisive victory over the bully, he (or she) may not ever leave you alone. However, if you attempt to prevent further clashes by trying to cost them something, immature folks like bullies are more likely to come back and try to damage you worse. I've had people I know get jumped because they won a fight against their attackers earlier. Small-minded individuals do not mind ganging up on you to get a victory.
You can play this escalation game forever. If you come up with a solution to getting jumped, what happens if the other guy brings a knife to school and just stabs you? It's rare but it happens – I know someone who had it happen to them. As it turns out what happened was they knocked the other kid out with a fire-extinguisher.

As I said earlier, fighting is a gamble. Personally, I consider the risks that you're going to get jumped and badly beaten a few times until they realise that's not going to work to break you – or the smaller chance that they'll escalate into killing you – when compared against the near certainty that the abuse will continue otherwise, just part of the cost of not living on your knees.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
This is why I think Aikido is a good way to deal with bullies. You win decisively and deceptively, but at the same time the opponent isn't badly hurt.
Kids being bullied don't need something that they're told might work in two years if they practice diligently enough, they need something they can use reliably the minute they walk out of their first lesson because the next day they're going to be back in school getting the crap kicked out of them again. Basics of boxing take a couple of hours to teach someone. They won't be brilliant but they'll have something they can use and any practice on top of that's just going to make them better at it.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
I want to see what other people has experienced, and what they took away from their experiences. So if you got something at all, before or after Aikido, I would love to read about it. Maybe I can learn something from it too.
My first experience of any sort of violence was before I went to school. I was of the opinion that I didn't want a bath, my father was of the opinion I was having one anyway. He decided that the obvious solution would be to use force to get his way. I remember my sister used to get beaten for not wanting her hair cut too.

The next moment that springs to mind I was in the first year of primary school. I can't even remember what it was about but a teacher had backed me into a corner and tried to grab me – and I don't think I've ever much liked being touched, so I did the instinctive thing and bit her.

It was later explained to me that she wouldn't have hurt me, that there existed larger legal and ethical frameworks into which her behaviour was meant to fit. My parents never raised a hand to me again.

I didn't have much trouble with people for a fair number of years after that. There were a couple of fist fights but nothing of any interest. Generally all I had to do to get people to back off was give them a pissed off look. I think they realised that while some people were looking for a reason to fight, I was looking for a reason not to fight – my default solution was to fight as seriously as I could the minute a threat presented itself. The reputation I acquired as the resident psycho probably didn't hurt any either.

Let's see, dropped out of formal education at the end of primary school, skipped most of secondary school, attended a sixth form college to get my A Levels. That'd be about the next time I ran into someone who thought that being violent with me would profit them – I was sitting at the bus-stop and a kid, who I later learned was there to resit his GCSEs, decided it'd be fun to flick a cigarette at me. I told him to knock it off, he got up in my face and spouted the usual 'what are you going to do about it?' drivel – he was absurdly over-confident, ended up telling me to take my best shot. So I grabbed his collar and nutted him in the face.

A short time afterwards – a couple of months – I found a drunk gentleman bothering a couple of young girls at that same bus stop. I decided I could probably take him if it came down to it. Went over and told him that I thought he was bothering them. He said he thought he was bothering me. I said maybe he was. He looked me in the eye and backed down. The girls were quite glad as I recall.

I suspect the decision to stick their bus-stop where there's very little pedestrian traffic wasn't a bright idea on that part of whoever planned it. They seem to have a lot of trouble there.

Went off to university, joined the special constabulary, (volunteer police in the UK). Got into a scuffle from time to time that way but nothing particularly hair-raising. I took up aikido at around that time because I wanted something to handle people who weren't any particular threat to me but that I, nonetheless, needed to restrain. Obviously I could just have restrained them by knocking the daylights out of them, but you can't exactly make a habit of that – and let's face it most of them are drunk or stupid anyway, it's sad that their lives have placed them there, but it's not really their fault.

At this point I'd pretty much lost count of the number of situations I'd been in. I always seemed to be the guy that ended up having to take someone down to the ground just because everyone else was waiting for me to do it – which was a bit annoying.

Got out of university without graduating – I just couldn't take the boredom of memorising lists of studies and I've never been one for forming really close friendships, so there was nothing and no-one keeping me there. Joined the military, and that's more or less where I've been since. I like the work, it pays well, and if I didn't do it properly someone else would just do it poorly.

Don't know what I'm going to do once we get out of Afghanistan though. On the one hand, there's always another war at some point. On the other, I'm not sure I could take too much sitting around on base with my thumb up my arse. Probably join the police or a private security company. I've a friend who works for G4S, they seem to offer fairly good opportunities. Might even go back to uni and finish off my degree – I made sure I could when I left.

Last edited by Benjamin Green : 03-21-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #30
Alic
Dojo: Sokushinkan Dojo, Vancouver
Location: Richmond, BC
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Wish I was able to fight back as well as you have Ben, probably would have saved me a lot of grief... I was too weak and unfit to really do anything without technIque, and since I didn't have technique at the time, well...

You should definately go back to universty. If you haven't formed any significant friendships then it's time to try, cause you're missing out on all the fun. Military isn't that stable of a job anyhow, so you might want to increase your future options now. You've got time to burn now anyhow eh?
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:58 AM   #31
Lunatic Bodhisattva
Dojo: Lexington Aikikai
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
No. It is right to respond with force.

I made two points only ;
1. Child attacking others with scissors = potentially dangerous, should be reprimanded/expelled.
2. Your assertion that resisting with force is wrong, I absolutely DISagree.
I'm confused.
You say attacking with scissors is potentially dangerous and therefor wrong, but then you say
it is good to resist with force. Stabbing someone with scissors would definitely be considered use of force. Those two statements seem at least conflicting and at most hypocritical in my opinion.

It appears that you have never had a persistent bully work you over for any amount of time, it is so incredibly unpleasant you will do just about anything to make it stop. How many times here in America have we seen teens commit suicide or homicide that was a direct result of repeated bullying?

For all you know if Alic had stabbed the other child it would have been a life changing experience for both Alic and the bully. Perhaps the Bully would have had an epiphany and never bullied anyone again. Perhaps Alic would have had an epiphany regarding compassion, understanding and non violence.

That said stabbing the child with scissors would have been the wrong way, but that doesn't mean that the bully didn't deserve to have his ass kicked.

What is the best way to deal with a persistent bully?
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:43 AM   #32
St Matt
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alec Corper wrote: View Post
The angst in aikido about not using force is ridiculous. Read Shioda's "Aikido Shugyo" to see another take of aikido.
Thanks for the book recommendation! Thats another 35 spent D'oh!!!
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:18 PM   #33
Benjamin Green
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
Wish I was able to fight back as well as you have Ben, probably would have saved me a lot of grief... I was too weak and unfit to really do anything without technIque, and since I didn't have technique at the time, well...
I don't see how you can know that you were too weak, if you never actually tried to fight back.

Do you have it now? If you're putting being bullied all these years down to a lack of skill, and you think you've got it now, that seems like the sort of thing it would be important to test. You know -- get a guy who does some boxing and try some light-contact sparring without gloves on. See how you do.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
You should definately go back to universty. If you haven't formed any significant friendships then it's time to try, cause you're missing out on all the fun. Military isn't that stable of a job anyhow, so you might want to increase your future options now. You've got time to burn now anyhow eh?
Time to burn isn't the same as options to burn.

The decision to go back to university is one that cannot be taken back. Whereas the decision not to go can be taken back at any point. If I try the job market and find that it's ill suited for people without degrees, then that's okay. But if I try the job market and find that it's ill suited for people who took a year or so off of continuing to work -- in order to go and get the last bit of their degree -- that's not something that can be fixed.

#

The lack of significant friends doesn't bother me. It's not clear that becoming attached to people has a reasonable trade off in terms of the amount of fun you can have with them.

Do many people have significant friends anyway? Or, do the ones that profess such a position just have a very constrained experience with others that causes them to place too high a value on the individuals they have direct experience with?
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:36 AM   #34
Alic
Dojo: Sokushinkan Dojo, Vancouver
Location: Richmond, BC
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Canada
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Hahaha... it's because I tried to fight back that I know I was too weak. I didn't know anything about how to punch, and wasn't fit at all, and slightly overweight. I put up as much resistance as I could, hoping it would deter them. Didn't work as well as I imagined it in my head...

I don't know what the future may hold for you, but many people are going back to college because they lost their jobs. In the current economy jobs are hard to come by for everyone, so trying to get hired now may not be the most prudent thing to do. If you can pull it off, mad props, but it's probably best to take shelter from this storm in a post-sec institution. Gain a degree or certificate in a growing field, and hope for the best. You may just graduate in time to see the next boom. I suggest green tech, as no matter what, it has to grow if this world society wants to continue existing.

Friends come in two categories, people you just like to hang with, and people you know will have your back when you're in deep dodo. I have one in the dojo, and 3 from highschool. It's not very many, but it's hard to find good bros like that, and it's really all you need. Just even one will make a big difference, when you know you got someone you can talk to without fear of ridicule (even if you deserve it for doing dumb shit).
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:42 PM   #35
Michael Douglas
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Great life story post Ben! There isn't a thumbs-up smiley that I can find ...

You see this bit ;
Quote:
Benjamin Green wrote: View Post
...I didn't have much trouble with people for a fair number of years after that. There were a couple of fist fights but nothing of any interest. .
There really is no understanding coming from Alic on something as simple and irrelevant as a bit of fisticuffs in our schooldays, his brain is wired so utterly differently. That makes this whole 'danger' thread a bit like the whole 'Aikido' world : people doing completely dissimilar things while dressing the same and thinking that what they do is the real ... stuff.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:29 AM   #36
Alic
Dojo: Sokushinkan Dojo, Vancouver
Location: Richmond, BC
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 64
Canada
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Michael, I think when the RCMP comes to specifically address your assault case, it would qualify as more than just a schoolyard fistfight. I already told the one where they followed me home, and the time they jumped me and knocked me out, but there were many many other times where they have truly threatened my safety. I didn't know how dangerous it was back then of course, I was just scared. But now I truly appreciated just how close it could've been.

There was one time when those guys threw water at me, but I was on the class computer at the time, and there on the floor was a mass of jumbled wires, all connected to a maxed out power stripe. If I hadn't taken the full dump of water on my rather broad back, I might've ended up as fried jerky that day.

Another time, they saw me having fun on the slide during recess. That being the only slide on the only playground in the neighbourhood, it was basically the popular kid's only club up there. Under normal circumstances I couldn't even get up close to it without getting my shit ruined, but that day it was slightly drizzling. All the popular kids went indoors, and I decided that a little rain is better than being bored (wasn't like I had friends to hang with at the time). Well, those kids saw me through the classroom windows and didn't like that I was having fun on their property, so they came out to correct my behaviour. I didn't notice them though, and thought they wouldn't come out in the rain, so I let my guard down.

Big mistake. They went up to the top without me noticing, and when I finally turned around they had blocked off all the ladders leading up to the slides. I was cornered, and had only the slide was my escape route. I thought "perfect" and went to slide down and make my getaway, but at that time, the main bully decided to grab my shoulder and shove me around a bit. Well, he actually did Aiki without knowing it, as his push was harmonized with my turn and forward motion, and I went flying forward instead of going down the slide. It was a spiral slide that was open, so instead of simply faceplanting and sliding down, I actually flew out of the track of the slide and fell about one floor down onto gravel. I managed to cut myself on a sharp piece of gravel, right on the chin, and bled like crazy. Those guys ran for it right away after I fell, and left me there. It wasn't until class started that they noticed I wasn't there.

I got carted off to the nurses room with teachers all over me, trying to disinfect and stop the bleeding. Eventually I went to the hospital to have the cut patched up with adhesive skin closures. The scar didn't go away and I could never prop my chin on my palm again after that, being too sensitive now.

Michael, I don't know how strong you were as a kid, or how well you dealt without violence and bullying, but it was obviously better than me (or you were luckier). Either way, what you experienced wasn't the same as what I had to deal with, so please don't assume I imagined the whole thing. I had to deal with their incessent harrassment from when I got here in grade 5, all the way till end of elementary. It affected my self-esteem for years to come, damaged my communication abililty and trust in people, and I became introverted. I couldn't focus on studying and hated going to school for the whole time I was there.

Thing is, I grew out of it. I fixed myself and gotten more outgoing, threw away my fears and made friends, joined clubs and tried out for sports teams, and became a chatterbox. I don't plan on stopping in improving myself either, which is why I train in Aikido. The past is over, and I cannot change it, but I still have a say about how I act in the future, and I will train myself seriously so that next time something like this happens, I will not be forced into drawing the short straw again.

Last edited by Alic : 03-26-2012 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:05 AM   #37
Benjamin Green
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
Hahaha... it's because I tried to fight back that I know I was too weak. I didn't know anything about how to punch, and wasn't fit at all, and slightly overweight. I put up as much resistance as I could, hoping it would deter them. Didn't work as well as I imagined it in my head...
Mmm, I find it takes a lot more skill to stop a charge than to start one. With a lot of unskilled fighters the person who wins is just the one with the most will to engage - they end up on top, and once you're there you don't need a lot of skill.

Still, as long as you did your best.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
I don't know what the future may hold for you, but many people are going back to college because they lost their jobs. In the current economy jobs are hard to come by for everyone, so trying to get hired now may not be the most prudent thing to do. If you can pull it off, mad props, but it's probably best to take shelter from this storm in a post-sec institution. Gain a degree or certificate in a growing field, and hope for the best. You may just graduate in time to see the next boom. I suggest green tech, as no matter what, it has to grow if this world society wants to continue existing.
That probably sounds more reasonable to you than it does to me. You can't say, on the basis of your recommendation, whether going to university makes you a given percentage more or less likely to be employed, (within a certain degree of error.)

Maybe it makes you more likely, but there are other, equally plausible, narratives that imply the opposite outcome. Since you can argue equally well for either, you don't actually gain any information you didn't already have.

In order to make an informed decision you need information that will allow you to distinguish which outcome, for a given course of action, is more probable. In the absence of that information it doesn't makes sense to invest tens of thousands of pounds and years of time in something where the only thing you're really sure of is you're going to be bored to tears by it.

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post
Friends come in two categories, people you just like to hang with, and people you know will have your back when you're in deep dodo. I have one in the dojo, and 3 from highschool. It's not very many, but it's hard to find good bros like that, and it's really all you need. Just even one will make a big difference, when you know you got someone you can talk to without fear of ridicule (even if you deserve it for doing dumb shit).
I'm fairly sceptical of any analysis that comes in the form: "There are two types of X: Y & !Y" Frequently the variances between subtypes are just as important as the difference between the types.

I suspect, you just see things that way because ridicule matters to you. Maybe you're younger or something. Whereas I've been employed for years, no-one I know in real life would be unprofessional enough to ridicule me, that's just not how you manage people when you've got to work together.

Indeed a lot of working together is a matter of altering how you socialise when you talk to different people to maintain harmony, to maintain a set of common rules that people can use to keep the conversations they have productive.

If you didn't do that, you'd get to the point where you needed to change jobs - assuming you hadn't been fired already mind - and no-one would give you a decent reference. Even just in working with others, you'd have to continually rely on positional authority - which would make it nigh-on impossible to get anything done.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:14 AM   #38
Malicat
Dojo: Sei-Ryo, Flat Rock, NC
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Benjamin Green wrote: View Post
In order to make an informed decision you need information that will allow you to distinguish which outcome, for a given course of action, is more probable. In the absence of that information it doesn't makes sense to invest tens of thousands of pounds and years of time in something where the only thing you're really sure of is you're going to be bored to tears by it.
As an adult who is currently going back to school, I would have to say that the decision should be based on your desire for a final outcome. There are plenty of jobs that don't require a degree, just a passion for the field. And there are jobs that require a degree. I see too many people in school now who are just going back because they have no idea what else to do. That is a huge waste of money. If you don't have an answer as to what field you plan to be working in and why a degree is necessary in that field, you probably shouldn't be in school. I'm not sure what the education costs are like in England, but I will have spent about 75k by the time I finish my undergraduate degree, and I will also need a Masters on top of that. I have a good understanding of what I will be making when I get out of school and the kind of job that I will be doing. Without that understanding, well.. 75,000 dollars is a LOT of money and 4 years of your life is a LOT of time that are both going to waste.

--Ashley
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:38 AM   #39
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alic Xie wrote: View Post

Lesson Two: dueling doesn't work
True.

Said that, my two cents about one of the few dangerous situations that happened to me.

Years ago I was sitting at a restaurant with my dad, who was about 80, and 5 or 6 friends of his, about his age.

For reasons that it is immaterial to explain, out of the blue two guys come to our table and address me saying they were going (nothing less) to kill me (ok, the reason apparently was that they did not like how I answered to a waitress: "are you foking ignoring us intentionally when we ask you something?").

That was the toughest situation I ever faced in my whole life. In fact, the guys were taunting me in every possibile way and I just sat there and I took it. They were not big guys, to be sure one wonders how guys with that trivial bodyframe may think they can attack safely anyone.

I kept sitting, I kept taking their insults and mockery for a whole full minute which seems an eternity in those cases.
Then I reacted like this: "ok if you really believe I have offended you, I apologize".

This was the toughest situation I ever found myself in. Having to take all that crap and do nothing.
Because you know, I would never, never let my 80 years old father have to see his son fighting.

**dishonourable drums rolling**

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 04-15-2012 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:40 AM   #40
genin
Location: southwest
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alberto Italiano wrote: View Post
True.

Said that, my two cents about one of the few dangerous situations that happened to me.

Years ago I was sitting at a restaurant with my dad, who was about 80, and 5 or 6 friends of his, about his age.

For reasons that it is immaterial to explain, out of the blue two guys come to our table and address me saying they were going (nothing less) to kill me (ok, the reason apparently was that they did not like how I answered to a waitress: "are you foking ignoring us intentionally when we ask you something?").

That was the toughest situation I ever faced in my whole life. In fact, the guys were taunting me in every possibile way and I just sat there and I took it. They were not big guys, to be sure one wonders how guys with that trivial bodyframe may think they can attack safely anyone.

I kept sitting, I kept taking their insults and mockery for a whole full minute which seems an eternity in those cases.
Then I reacted like this: "ok if you really believe I have offended you, I apologize".

This was the toughest situation I ever found myself in. Having to take all that crap and do nothing.
Because you know, I would never, never let my 80 years old father have to see his son fighting.

**dishonourable drums rolling**
We call that "getting punked", lol. It's a rough thing to go through. Humiliating and embarassing.

I've found that if you are not going to engage them on their level, which is with name calling and the threat of violence, then you should do or say whatever it is that you think will diffuse the situation. It sounds like you did that.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:07 AM   #41
Edgecrusher
 
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Re: Dangerous Situations

You know the saying wish I knew then what I know now? Well, I guess that can be true when we are speaking about experiences whether in school or at a bar of all places. Some dude rolled up to me in a parking lot and appeared to be non threatening. My heart rate was jacked and adrenalin was pumping in excessive amounts. I was waiting for him to make a move but thank God he was drunk. Either way he wouldn't back off, nor was I. Eventually he got the net and went on his way. All I kept thinking was, what if? My victory came when we both went on our ways and peace was kept.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:42 PM   #42
Chris Parkerson
Dojo: Academy of the Martial Arts
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Re: Dangerous Situations

I was a Brown (Mexican) kid in white-bread schools. I was like you in some respects.
IMO - The two best results of martial training are (1) learning not to invest emotional/reactive stuff into encounters and (2) being able to take the strikes that are thrown at you without letting the "butterflies" rule your awareness.

I am committed to the life-giving sword and have made a living protecting people around the world. Phra Wahu (Thai) the Buddha of protection and just causes watching over my 6.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #43
Autrelle Holland
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
I used to beat people up for picking on other people. Got tired of feeling bad for hurting folks. Then I found aikido so now I could stop the bullies without hurting them because I didn't know any other way. Sure, folks still get hurt but I don't feel so bad about it ... still got stuff to work on.
I say keep beating on them! How have you been, sir?
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #44
Janet Rosen
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Re: Dangerous Situations

There is a very well-thought out essay analyzing self-defense from a legal perspective at this blog from Colorado Springs Bujinkan I thought worth posting a link to. It critiques the concept of a lethal weapon and points out that if you fire a warning shot or slash at a weapon-holding hand, then you are in a world more legal trouble than if you simply lash out in pure self-defense...realizing of course that you may choose to DO the former but at least don't let on for a moment to anybody that you had that degree of brainpower and of self-control. It also points out that walking into trouble is a whole world different than having trouble walk into you.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:48 PM   #45
Belt_Up
Dojo: Dynamic Aikido Nocquet
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Re: Dangerous Situations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJX9QnrZtfc is a nice one from another thread.

Credit to Gorgeous George for posting it originally.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:51 AM   #46
Rob Watson
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Autrelle Holland wrote: View Post
I say keep beating on them! How have you been, sir?
Not dead yet. Thanks for asking!

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:22 PM   #47
Autrelle Holland
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Re: Dangerous Situations

These are all very interesting stories. There is a bit of irony that I think needs to be addressed. Why is it that we train martial arts, and are still expected to accept violation of self or others? Why is it that when a martial artist, rightfully puts the craft to its proper function, "stopping violence," there is criticism? Frankly, Aikido people can be a bit lofty in that regard. I say, don't start any, and there won't be any. I have done a lot of meaningless mean stuff to people in my past youth, and honestly every time was in defense of self or another. And I always made a point to give the person a way out, to deescalate. It's in their hands at that point. I have never seriously hurt anyone, and I have never been hurt (knock on wood). And in the cases that I had run into that person again, for better or worse, they had reflected on their conduct, for the better.

I made an effort, years ago, to tell some of these stories on an old blog in mind, with the idea that there was something to learn from those experiences, and not just about fighting, but about proper conduct. I got a lot of crap about it from people, but, it is what it is. It's easy to judge negatively. I have seen people, good people, close to me, talk about martial arts as just an expression of violence, done by violent people who are simply overcompensating for some defect in their personality. I have heard those same people say "I wish you were here the other night; I really could have used your help."

Violence is a short term solution to an immediate problem, and is only justified in response to, or the prevention of violence. It's almost that simple.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:23 PM   #48
Autrelle Holland
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Quote:
Alberto Italiano wrote: View Post
True.

Said that, my two cents about one of the few dangerous situations that happened to me.

Years ago I was sitting at a restaurant with my dad, who was about 80, and 5 or 6 friends of his, about his age.

For reasons that it is immaterial to explain, out of the blue two guys come to our table and address me saying they were going (nothing less) to kill me (ok, the reason apparently was that they did not like how I answered to a waitress: "are you foking ignoring us intentionally when we ask you something?").

That was the toughest situation I ever faced in my whole life. In fact, the guys were taunting me in every possibile way and I just sat there and I took it. They were not big guys, to be sure one wonders how guys with that trivial bodyframe may think they can attack safely anyone.

I kept sitting, I kept taking their insults and mockery for a whole full minute which seems an eternity in those cases.
Then I reacted like this: "ok if you really believe I have offended you, I apologize".

This was the toughest situation I ever found myself in. Having to take all that crap and do nothing.
Because you know, I would never, never let my 80 years old father have to see his son fighting.

**dishonourable drums rolling**
Restraint is an art form for the capable martial artist.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:05 PM   #49
chubbycubbysmash
Dojo: Long Island Aikikai (Bay Shore)
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Re: Dangerous Situations

Was never really picked on at school--but a friend of mine was for being overweight. I recall saying some really nasty and damaging things to the leader of the girl clique until she cried. This was middle school. I learned words can be equally damaging as any punch I'd throw. Years later, my friend who I protected became a bully, and the girl who I made cry became a friend. I also learned that the universe has an interesting sense of humor.

High school was interesting. Two boys were playfighting in the hallway, one was a friend and classmate, the other was a kid I used to tutor. Playfight got serious, classmate began choking the other kid out. Red as a raspberry. I stepped between them (full head shorter than both), they're throwing punches over my head. Within a few more seconds, more male friends came and pulled them apart because they were worried I was going to get hit. I learned that if you sufficiently put yourself at risk, have enough friends, people might come to your rescue. Especially if you're a chick.

High school again. My high school was connected to a college. Was walking out of the gym one day texting on my cell phone when some college student came up to me and took my phone right out of my hands. He started going through my numbers right in front of me as I was bewildered and tried to figure out if I knew the guy. Bunch of male friends saw what happened, surrounded him and forced him to give me back my phone, walked me to class, and wouldn't let me out of their sights for the day. Lesson I learned was: if you love and protect others, they will love and protect you back. Oh, and speak up next time, don't stand there gawking stupidly while someone does something weird to you.

High school again, go to a friends birthday party where two opposing gangs were invited. Fight breaks out, noses broken, heads butted, punches almost thrown. At first guys from both sides made us girls stay in, but when one guy floored a friend, I stepped out, yelled at all my friends to get in their and my 'effing car--now! Are you idiots going to make me repeat myself?' Everyone pauses, I must have looked ready to murder someone, but my friends finally listen, we leave. Right before I get an apology from one of the other crew's sober members. Everyone gets home alive. Lesson learned: it's good to be sober sometimes, even at a party. Also, alcohol makes stupid people even stupider. And winning does not mean you allow your friends to get into fights and possibly hurt or incarcerated. Yelling like you're their mother helps. Lots.

College, started aikido, dating my now husband, waiting for him at the dojo because I don't have a key. Jeep drives by, stops, reverses, parks right next to me. Did I mention it's raining? Guy comes out, asks for directions, starts chatting me up, don't think anything of it until he started to try and get me into his car. It was probably a bad idea to have told him my boyfriemd was late and stuck in traffic five minutes before. Guy still won't leave, keeps trying to get me to go into his car. Creep meter going way off, I text the boyfriend--who turned out to be a few minutes away--he comes careening down the road, gets out of the van and starts walking towards us, creep takes one look at him and breaks into a run. Manages to get into his van and leaves. Then boyfriend is very upset with me. Lesson learned: "Come into my car, I'll take you somewhere to wait out the rain" is probably a metaphor for something else, and don't take them up on the offer, especially if the words "I'm probably too old for you" and "my last girlfriend was chinese" had appeared in the conversation not two sentences before.

Also, take down the license plate.

Also, don't talk to strangers.

Also, crazy people don't care if you do martial arts, if your boyfriend does martial arts, or if you are standing in front of a martial arts school. Don't rely on that for safety.

Also, husband's face can turn an interesting shade of red, the likes of which you have only seen on the rear end of a baboon on NatGeo when he thinks you've put yourself in an exceedingly stupid or dangerous position.

Also, make sure you remember faces because you don't want to be the idiot who runs into the same guy who is waiting for you outside of the dojo two weeks later, and only by the saving grace of the universe were there a large amount of members that he doesn't say much and only after he leaves do you remember why he looks familiar. Yeah. Been there, done that.

Police on speed-dial might be handy.

Biggest lesson learned: POLITENESS AND SYMPATHY WILL SOMETIMES KILL YOU.

(which I will probably promptly forget the moment another strange man comes up to me and ask me to help his hurt puppy.)

I'm not brave or smart or particularly generous, but I'll take my values and live by them--and that is my standard measurement of strength.

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Old 05-29-2012, 09:21 PM   #50
Abasan
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Re: Dangerous Situations

You sound like a 'Bella'.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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