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Old 03-22-2012, 04:58 PM   #1
kvnmcwebn
Dojo: rillion gracie ireland
Location: The Bog
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doka

In a forest of enemy spears I find myself surrouned,
Then I realize that their very spears are my shield.

The first time I read this I thought it was the most beautiful and intriguing four lines I head ever read.
I've pondered it's meaning for months. It's meaning hit me today out of the blue. Now I think that the founder was a very enlightened being and had mastered the highest level of strategy.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:27 PM   #2
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: doka

The Doka of Truth.
G.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:32 PM   #3
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: doka

Quote:
Kevin McMonagle wrote: View Post
In a forest of enemy spears I find myself surrouned,
Then I realize that their very spears are my shield.

The first time I read this I thought it was the most beautiful and intriguing four lines I head ever read.
I've pondered it's meaning for months. It's meaning hit me today out of the blue. Now I think that the founder was a very enlightened being and had mastered the highest level of strategy.
This a serious practical and tactical teaching with value to a budoka. It is an old teaching going back to Vegititus, the Roman general in his book of strategy.
.
Sadly, it can also be taken up by ner do wells and utterly incompetent people to new heights of new age rhetoric and nonsense and be emptied of all practical worth to a budoka.

The only thing left to do is to face people -who claim to be Budoka- with spears. In quick order you will discover who is actually worth listening to and how utterly worthlessness some people's understanding of budo is. For this reason, many people-particularly established teachers- will never meet and be tested.

"Do not look to authority for truth...look to truth for authority"
Dan
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #4
Rob Watson
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Re: doka

The 'textbook' of Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/war/vegetius/

Wikipedia has some interesting info on the work and the man ... strange echoes can be heard.

Tangent: spears made with fire sharpened points have been found and dated ~400,000 years of age. Seems that any srious budoka should know a thing or two about how to handle a spear.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:33 PM   #5
DH
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Re: doka

Spot on Rob.
At this point anyone who thinks Ueshiba's doka are the work of a singular genius suffers from a serious lack in education.
Xan

Last edited by DH : 03-23-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:49 PM   #6
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: doka

A Doka of truth has no owner.

Trapped by history, led by physical image, thus missing the beauty.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:02 PM   #7
graham christian
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Re: doka

Hi Kevin.
All Doka are poems of the way. Spiritual pointers used by Masters of practices such as Zen, Buddhism, Taoism, etc. Referred to traditionally by those in Martial disciplines who have themselves become masters of an art and refer to the spiritual nature of what they are describing having transcended the physical.

This you probably already know.

So if you follow the way then remember you too are a Doka.

Thus are we truly Aiki Doka.

Peace. G.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:10 PM   #8
Chris Li
 
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Re: doka

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
The 'textbook' of Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/war/vegetius/

Wikipedia has some interesting info on the work and the man ... strange echoes can be heard.
"If you wish for peace, prepare for war" - great stuff, even if he was named "Publius". What were his parents thinking?

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-24-2012, 02:11 AM   #9
woudew
Dojo: Seikokan
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Re: doka

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
"If you wish for peace, prepare for war" - great stuff, even if he was named "Publius". What were his parents thinking?

Best,

Chris
The Romans weren't well know for inventivity of making up names. They even started counting them
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:02 AM   #10
DH
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Re: doka

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
The 'textbook' of Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/war/vegetius/

Wikipedia has some interesting info on the work and the man ... strange echoes can be heard.

Tangent: spears made with fire sharpened points have been found and dated ~400,000 years of age. Seems that any srious budoka should know a thing or two about how to handle a spear.
Of training:
.....100 days for spear
...1000 days for bow
10,000 days for sword

For our particular interests in power and aiki; Spear teaches many things, but sword remains the hardest and most complete.
Dan
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:34 AM   #11
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: doka

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
For our particular interests in power and aiki; Spear teaches many things, but sword remains the hardest and most complete.
Dan
i thought the nunchuck is the hardest, since it embodied yin-yang, the hard sticks and the soft rope/chain. not to mention hours of entertainment watching folks trying it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7eLx5JS6b4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg0FT-1YcmA

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:24 PM   #12
graham christian
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Re: doka

Let go of the physical, let go of the mind.
Join with the harmony which is already there.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:41 PM   #13
kvnmcwebn
Dojo: rillion gracie ireland
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Re: doka

I agree grahm, it has no answer and it's impossible to improve on the original doka so there's no use trying explain it. Pondering it daily brought about a huge shift in my understanding of strategy at a time when I was faced with overwhelming odds. It has little to do with any specific type of weapon as they are used as metaphors. It has more to do with the transformation from vulnerability to invincibility in the face of a larger force. The first line starts out as someone who is overwhelmed by a larger force. "but then I realized that..." the second line shows that a transformation occurred in his understanding which made him invincible. It was an enlightenment as invincibility is the highest enlightenment of the warrior. I don't mean that in the sense that he defeated 1000 spears with his sword. Losing his life in the "battle" would not have mattered.

Last edited by kvnmcwebn : 03-25-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:31 PM   #14
Zoe S Toth
Dojo: Seidokan Aikido of South Carolina
Location: Columbia, SC
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Re: doka

Quote:
Kevin McMonagle wrote: View Post
In a forest of enemy spears I find myself surrouned,
Then I realize that their very spears are my shield.
Kevin, I've always thought this was a very beautiful thing as well. Our Sensei was actually going over this the other day- explaining that Aikido works because an attacker wants to attach and that chains them where as we are free to move about.

DH,

I'm sorry to say but I highly disagree with

"Of training:
.....100 days for spear
...1000 days for bow
10,000 days for sword"

I actually have worked with both the bow and the sword and I find them both equally complex. Swords have more to master in short distance- but they are ONLY short distance weapons. A bow has been historically a long and mid range weapon used both standing and on horse back. I have much respect for the samurai who could shoot on horse back. Having tried, I find it to be as difficult as fighting an opponent up close. You have to work with: yourself, the horse and the target....Oh and the target is either going to be shooting back, trying to close in for short distance combat or trying to do both. Not fun.
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