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Old 02-26-2012, 10:30 AM   #26
graham christian
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Alex Megann wrote: View Post
Since I've never been on the mat with Arikawa Sensei, I have no plans to post in Ellis's original thread, but there is a fascinating YouTube video of Arikawa teaching in France in the early 1990s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddA7scPgtqM

I find it interesting that he does several things that would get candidates for higher kyu grades failed in most organisations. His lack of outward zanshin, in the sense that this is normally taught in the Aikikai, is very noticeable to me after reading Ellis's article (although he does seem to be specifically teaching zanshin at 1:50). He hardly ever uses his spare hand, which dangles at his side for most of the time. It also surprised me that he often (see around 1:32, for instance, and just after the 3 minute mark) doesn't obviously unbalance his uke at the start of the technique, nor consistently keep control of uke's balance.

What is obvious, though, is the sheer crashing power of his irimi (see at around 2:07).

A scary guy, though I am disappointed not to have experienced his aikido. While I was at Hombu Dojo in 2003 I went in with trepidation to a class he was scheduled to teach, but I heard that he was already in hospital (for what turned out to be the last time).

Alex
Interesting the difference in perception through watching a video.

Great video by the way, found two more on the same page.

From my perspective I loved his demeaner. He had an almost laconic looking approach there. This I like. It looks like a man who has seen it all and done it all before, almost bored. However, to mistake this for 'lack of zanshin' would be the opponents biggest mistake they could make from my view.

I would call it 'apparent lack of zanshin and in fact a very powerful and advanced zanshin.

The way he does the moves and especially the ones with 'arm dangling' only validates this fact. Deceptive to some maybe but I would say totally easy for him and natural.

Those videos have made my day.

Regards. G.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:41 PM   #27
Alex Megann
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Interesting the difference in perception through watching a video.

Great video by the way, found two more on the same page.

From my perspective I loved his demeaner. He had an almost laconic looking approach there. This I like. It looks like a man who has seen it all and done it all before, almost bored. However, to mistake this for 'lack of zanshin' would be the opponents biggest mistake they could make from my view.

I would call it 'apparent lack of zanshin and in fact a very powerful and advanced zanshin.

The way he does the moves and especially the ones with 'arm dangling' only validates this fact. Deceptive to some maybe but I would say totally easy for him and natural.

Those videos have made my day.

Regards. G.
On this occasion I would agree with you wholeheartedly, Graham!

No, I don't believe he was unaware for a second of what his partner was doing - the "apparent" is deceptive. Definitely take your eye of the ball at your peril.

Alex
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:25 AM   #28
jamie yugawa
 
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

This is another great video of a rare demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgZCEnhaiA

One little candle can light 10,000 candles- Koichi Tohei Sensei
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:43 PM   #29
Alex Megann
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
This is another great video of a rare demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgZCEnhaiA
I'm not sure if I could say I enjoyed the clip or not. I can imagine some people describing it as a bit of a car crash.

Niall Matthews kept his dignity, but I wouldn't be surprised if the other two ukes were taking part as some kind of punishment...

Alex
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:40 PM   #30
Mark Mueller
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

Hmmmm? Not sure what to think.....Appears very sloppy with very compliant uke....and then intentional cranking of the arm/shoulder after the fact......kind of ugly.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:12 PM   #31
graham christian
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
This is another great video of a rare demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgZCEnhaiA
I liked this one too. Don't think I would call it sloppy.

He has a very 'no nonsense' or 'samurai' type approach from my perspective. I noticed also he is always unruffled.

I also liked the fact that each technique 'spoke loudly' as to what it was, I doubt anyone could say they were not effective. Down meant down, throws meant go, pins meant pinned. Very definite. No chance to 'argue'.

For me although thorough and definite they still maintained compassion.

Of the Ukes well Niall I was very impressed by. He didn't 'collapse' or give way throughout and his spirit was always on Arikawa Sensei without break. A fine example of budo spirit.

In summery.......Fudoshin.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:37 PM   #32
Basia Halliop
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

It's hard to tell without taking ukemi yourself or talking to people who have, or knowing the relationship between the uke and nage...

But it does rather seem as if he's cranking the pins hard once the ukes are fully controlled and have submitted. So I can see how someone could say it looked ugly. It looks like he's taking advantage of someone being trapped to hurt them further.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:46 PM   #33
Basia Halliop
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

"I doubt anyone could say they were not effective"

Well, I don't know about that. I suspect they probably were effective, and they 'looked' effective, and I'm certainly not about to argue that they weren't, but the ukes didn't appear to be trying to counter at all in any way (nor attacking in a particularly dangerous way), so I don't know if there's actually enough info to go on, to be able to say for sure whether or not they could have countered or escaped if they had tried.

At least I can't see one way or another personally, though someone more experienced than me could probably see a presence or lack of openings much better than I could. I can't usually tell except in fairly extreme cases.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:02 PM   #34
graham christian
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
It's hard to tell without taking ukemi yourself or talking to people who have, or knowing the relationship between the uke and nage...

But it does rather seem as if he's cranking the pins hard once the ukes are fully controlled and have submitted. So I can see how someone could say it looked ugly. It looks like he's taking advantage of someone being trapped to hurt them further.
It could look that way yes. I can only talk from personal experience. We used to receive pins in such a manner and thus learned a very specific lesson. What could happen.

This rules out what I hear many talking about as to the effectiveness of pins for until they have them done in such a way they will always have a thought that they 'could have' escaped.

This I believe is what was being emphasized by Arikawa Sensei. It actually takes great control to do what he did and yet not injure the opponent.

Many nowadays would indeed say that is rough, I prefer 'old school' myself. However, if not learned as he showed then that is one more lesson lost. The uke learns how to cope with it is one major uke lesson, especially if they kept zanshin all the time like Niall did. The nage would have to be pretty experienced to do such comfortably and confidently, knowing exactly how far to go. It's a skill.

Such is my view.

Peace. G.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:29 AM   #35
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

There's a lot in that demonstration, IMO. Arikawa Sensei showed a lot of precision in his throws in terms of the points of contact he maintained with Uke. He emphasised a lot of specific, important points in his pins and locks and maintained a connection with Uke for over a very long time, compared with many other prominent Aikido demonstrators. He was obviously very knowledgable.

To echo Graham, it was indeed, "old school."
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:45 PM   #36
Don_Modesto
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Jamie Yugawa wrote: View Post
This is another great video of a rare demo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgZCEnhaiA
I don't think I've ever seen a Honbu SHIHAN with such a slovenly presence. His technique didn't look very precise to me. His pins were arresting (er, to watch, that is; no pun intended)--much different from the canon. I agree that his doing them at the speed he did without injury is a testament to some degree of control.

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Old 03-26-2012, 06:27 AM   #37
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Response to: It Had to be Felt #4: Arikawa Sadateru: "Please, put your hand Down!

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Don J. Modesto wrote: View Post
I don't think I've ever seen a Honbu SHIHAN with such a slovenly presence. His technique didn't look very precise to me. His pins were arresting (er, to watch, that is; no pun intended)--much different from the canon. I agree that his doing them at the speed he did without injury is a testament to some degree of control.
I can certainly understand your points, but check out the throw at 1:00. The moment uke lands (even a bit before), Arikawa has Uke's arm extended and his free hand placed on a pressure point on uke's face, effecting a stretch/pin on uke. To me, that shows that he he knows what he's doing and why. He repeats this kind of technique a number of times. Niall Matthews has previously written about Arikawa Sensei's knowledge of anatomical points, and this demo highlights a lot of that IMO.
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