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Old 03-16-2012, 04:13 PM   #51
RonRagusa
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
If we separated our classes by sex...Ron wouldn't get to train nearly as much as I would get to train. ;o)

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Old 03-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #52
Hanna B
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

I do believe you could have a market for your product, Jackie. Whether or not your model will produce female aikido practitioners who become good at aikido is another issue entirely.

Do come back and give us reports in 6 months, a year, and two years!
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:05 PM   #53
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

I treat male and female the same. Standards for grading are the same for male and female in all dojo to my knowledge. I am sure there is a minimum standard held by the sensei so there will always be discrepencies from shodan to shodan etc, whether you compare male vs. male or male vs. female.

As for the safety issue mentioned. You should never practice beyond the ability of your uke. That being said; most students of kyu grade lack the skillset necessary to make that judgement. For the safety of everyone involved I believe you should begin practice with someone slowly and develop a feeling for the individual.

I do not believe it is about strength. I have practiced with a lot of folks, most if not all are much smaller and weaker than I but when the technique is done properly it is easy to overcome my size and strength.

Ultimately you really need to defer to your sensei for guidance with these matters. After all it is his/her responsibility to keep everyone safe.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:10 PM   #54
Hanna B
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

I know of one karate dojo that have separate karate classes for women, partly geared at immigrant groups where the girls would not be allowed to train with men. They are successful - they do have a market, and I think they train pretty good karateka (not that I can really judge).

They do have a female yudansha teaching some (not all) of these classes - and she's GOOD. I'd think that's a necessary ingredient (one of many) to make that concept work.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:14 PM   #55
Tom Verhoeven
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

So this was not a discussion on differences between female & male practitioners after all, but rather a market-inquiry to get a feel of the response if gender separate classes in Aikido were to be introduced.
A dojo is here presented as a business. Aikido has become a product. The student a consumer. And society a market.
We do live in a consumer society. And that consumer society has brought a lot of damage, distress and suffering to the world. Rather then going along with this doctrine (it is not philosophy ! ) of the world as a marketplace I feel that sincere aikidoka should consider the originally thoughts and goals of the founder, Ueshiba Morihei O Sensei. What always has attracted me to Aikido was his philosophy (not a doctrine !) of bringing a change to the world. Of giving people a renewed sense of joy and happiness. Spring has arrived here in the Auvergne and that gives everyone a feel of renewed vibrant energy. Practicing Aikido should feel like this, was O Sensei's often heard remark.
A consumer society approach to Aikido will smother this wonderful feeling of being alive and being able to connect to one another. As it will smother all true arts and spiritual disciplines. All that remains is the urge to have success, power and money. That is what the consumer society is about after all.
But it is not what Aikido is about...or should be about.

Tom Verhoeven
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:28 PM   #56
odudog
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Random late-night, post-practice thoughts:

Mike, hate to say it, but if that black belt said you were grabbing her neck too hard in irimi nage you were almost certainly screwing up the technique, and it has nothing to do with wimpy vs. "realistic" practice. You were just wrong (and it's a common error). Tell her thank you the next time you see her.
Just the opposite. I didn't grab her neck hard. I put my hand on it but barely squeezed on purpose. I came no where close to my normal practice. She now moved during the technique because she knew that was expected of her rather than me making her move. I am also a black belt.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:47 PM   #57
jackie adams
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

@Hanna, yes I will give reports. Thanks.

@Tom. I will not be running a business dojo. I support what you are saying. The dojo fees will be in the range of $20-$30 a month, or less depending on how many students I have and the needs of the dojo. The dojo will be set up in a proprietary manner. Everyone contributes to the dojo, by handling operations and maintenance, plus all other affairs. People who have a sense of ownership have a greater personal responsibility to the welfare of the dojo.

The average Aikido dojo in my area charges in the range of $80-$110 per month. Then there are fees for promotions, rank, seminars often making the student wonder if they are being nickel and dimed. Unlike other schools, there will be no school fees. Students will have to collectively pay for and obtain dojo supplies which they will manage themselves. My job is to teach. I am projecting my out of pocket costs will be very high the first couple of years. Then I am projecting that there will be times I will be supplementing the dojo when the students fall short. Money I don't plan on recouping.

Last edited by jackie adams : 03-16-2012 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:48 AM   #58
robin_jet_alt
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

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Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
Just the opposite. I didn't grab her neck hard. I put my hand on it but barely squeezed on purpose. I came no where close to my normal practice. She now moved during the technique because she knew that was expected of her rather than me making her move. I am also a black belt.
This is something that we can't judge because we aren't there and we can't feel it. Sometimes people grab too hard without realizing it and without trying to. Some people have strong reactions to actually being thrown. Believe it or not, some people get to black belt without ever being genuinely thrown, and it is a real shock to them to have their balance taken. Anyway, we can't know which one it was, so there is no point being critical one way or the other.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:21 AM   #59
Tom Verhoeven
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
@Tom. I will not be running a business dojo. I support what you are saying. The dojo fees will be in the range of $20-$30 a month, or less depending on how many students I have and the needs of the dojo. The dojo will be set up in a proprietary manner. Everyone contributes to the dojo, by handling operations and maintenance, plus all other affairs. People who have a sense of ownership have a greater personal responsibility to the welfare of the dojo.

The average Aikido dojo in my area charges in the range of $80-$110 per month. Then there are fees for promotions, rank, seminars often making the student wonder if they are being nickel and dimed. Unlike other schools, there will be no school fees. Students will have to collectively pay for and obtain dojo supplies which they will manage themselves. My job is to teach. I am projecting my out of pocket costs will be very high the first couple of years. Then I am projecting that there will be times I will be supplementing the dojo when the students fall short. Money I don't plan on recouping.
Jacky,
You presented your approach to starting a dojo as a business in concordance with consumer society doctrine. That you want to charge less to your future students only fits the same doctrine. It is the same argument that the local supermarket-manager gives me.

The discussion here was whether there are differences between female and male practitioners in Aikido. There are many reasons why we need to think about this.

But your sole argument was that from a modern day business point of view there should be separate classes for female practitioners as your consumers "want" this.

That does not really contribute to the discussion.

The general point I was trying to make before is that by setting up a dojo to fit the consumer society our whole starting point is wrong. Rather we should set up dojo that in the course of time may change consumer society. So we should not look for what the consumer wants, but what the student needs. That makes the difference between a shop and a true Aikido dojo.

Tom

Last edited by akiy : 03-17-2012 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:32 AM   #60
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
So this was not a discussion on differences between female & male practitioners after all, but rather a market-inquiry to get a feel of the response if gender separate classes in Aikido were to be introduced.
A dojo is here presented as a business. Aikido has become a product. The student a consumer. And society a market.
No it really wasn't. Jackie is not the OP and the first post was a different discussion altogether. However I do agree with you as far as a dojo really should not be a commercial based thing. It just seems really wrong to me. OTOH as Jackie's posts progress it looks less and less like what she wants to do really is a business venture at all and I suspect that her model is going to run into some problems. The business model is about finding ways to make a profit. Her thoughts seem more and more towards an aikido version of joining the local YMCA. It just seems wrong to me but to each his/her own. She might not be taken seriously by the aikido community but perhaps her "business" might appeal to a number of people.

The thing is this is a discussion that has happened in my dojo a few times. If you start offering a class just for women and another just for men, then you start getting people who want a class just for handicapped and just for Jewish and just for gays etc...(not targeting any specific community just tossing out examples) and so on and so forth. Who is going to teach all of these classes? If one is running a dojo and only planning to make ends meet with the dues and out of pocket then teacher must have a day job.


My other question to you Jackie is this. You have been training in aikido for 10 years. So my guess is that you are somewhere in around shodan or nidan. California has many fine dojo run by individuals who have much more experience so it is not like there is a lack of places for people to go and train. What has influenced you to decide to open a dojo of your own rather than to continue to train and grow under a more senior and experienced teacher?

Last edited by Shadowfax : 03-17-2012 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:43 AM   #61
Hanna B
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

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Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
No it really wasn't. Jackie is not the OP and the first post was a different discussion altogether.
These threads always seem to change subject, don't they. At least this one hasn't deviated into hoards of men speaking about how wonderful the small but significant differences between the sexes are.. extremely tiresome, once you've seen it a couple of times. That this hasn't (yet) happened here I think is probably due to the extremely thoughtful original post. Most people who post here regarding their problems in their dojo don't really ponder on both his/her own actions and those of others in the same way.

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
OTOH as Jackie's posts progress it looks less and less like what she wants to do really is a business venture at all and I suspect that her model is going to run into some problems.
I'm quite sure Jackie isn't a woman. A woman who started separate women's classes would have talked quite differently about it. If I'm wrong I will be very surprised.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:28 AM   #62
kewms
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

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Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
My solution is to separate the sexes in their own classes, only to bring them together occasional for the benefit of each other's practice. Will it work, I think so. Because the sexes naturally do separate on their own. History tells us it is far too difficult to bring the sexes together, other then for that occasional intimacy, where there is harmony and blending. In my new school, I will be going with nature, and not against it. That is my idea.
Honestly? I think that's a terrible idea.

In my experience, new male students are too reliant on strength, particularly upper body strength. New female students are too reluctant to connect. Because their strengths and weaknesses are complementary, men and women can see the things they need to work on modeled by the other gender. Separating them deprives both genders of this experience.

It's also a terrible idea from a martial perspective. If a woman ever needs to use her aikido skills in self-defense, it is almost certain that the attacker will be male and bigger than she is. By not exposing your female students to this sort of attacker in a controlled environment, you are doing them a serious disservice.

Katherine
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:37 AM   #63
kewms
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

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Eva Röben wrote: View Post
If, as we all are supposed to think,
a) female aikido is NOT different from male aikido at an advanced level
b) strength does not make a difference,
Anyone who thinks strength doesn't make a difference needs to train with stronger people.

At equal skill levels, the stronger person will win. That's just physics.

With that said, some of the most intimidating people I know in aikido are small women. They make up for their diminutive size with tremendous skill and enormous spirit. Small women absolutely can develop excellent aikido.

But so can men. Which is why competitions are and should be segregated. Judo has weight classes, too, for the same reason.

Katherine
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:39 AM   #64
kewms
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

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Amy Fong wrote: View Post
Sorry for being rude and ignorant, but I was talking about black belts females there. (I am thinking about my future down the road.)
The black belt females I'm familiar with are completely capable of dealing with strong attacks. Why wouldn't they be?

Katherine
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:40 PM   #65
Keith Larman
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

For me a real eye opening experience was offering to do a class that integrated intermediate adults with advanced kids. The idea being to push the kids who had "outgrown" kids classes (size, strength, ability) and were no longer advancing as well with adults who tend to try to over power. The adults had to adjust "down" a bit while the kids had to step up. Add in to the mix the fact that I've got males and females as well with all the various cultural/size/strength differences already outlined in this thread.

Bottom line for me is that I came to realize even more that learning Aikido (as I understand it) requires both learning to deal with attackers across the spectrum but also to learn to take ukemi from others across the spectrum as well.

No, nobody cranks the kids. But they learn just how subtle technique can work when they can't just hammer them. They also learn that a small kid can sometimes manage to do amazing things when the timing is right. And they learn that power sometimes means something very different from just muscular strength and/or size.

Last night I had the class working with bokken. I got out a couple shinai and had them work on a particularly difficult movement that ends with a cut. This particular one was where you leap in to perform a yokomen then allow the end of the cut to turn around to face the other direction. Getting all the parts correct is very difficult. Usually what happens in the kata is that the cut is anemic and would be totally ineffective. It is tough to get the flow, movement and power all correct and retain good cutting form. So allowing them to try the cut hitting a shinai to verify the power and solidity is there was the way to give them feedback. The kids with a lot of experience in proper form actually were able to give a more solid and hence powerful cut than the ones with less. Regardless of size.

If the goal is a non-threatening place where people only train within their comfort zone, by all means segregate students. If the goal is to push students outside that zone and teach them to deal with more and more (or oddly enough maybe smaller and smaller), within reason it is a good idea to embrace the variety...

Just mho.

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Old 03-17-2012, 01:34 PM   #66
Eva Antonia
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Hello,

I'd never, ever go to a dojo with segregated training. I just don't put myself into the drawer where they lock the frail, fearful females.

BUT I absolutely support the idea of separate beginner classes for women. Those women who have some qualms, who are afraid of being smashed on the tatami or get their wrists broken, why shouldn't they START comfortably? Once they gain more confidence, they would WANT to pass to the mixed class anyway. Until they don't get this confidence, why not let them in their cosy biotope?

I have seen several dojos that offer women's classes, both in Azerbaijan and in Turkey. and it was exactly with this idea. Help the women surpass the initial timidity barrier. It worked there, because the dojos are big enough to find enough women beginners without self confidence. In our small Belgian dojo, it would be one or two women per year, so it wouldn't be very sustainable...

And I don't think it is a sin to plan a dojo like a start-up business. This doesn't automatically mean you want to sell coloured belts. But still you would wish to have enough students, not only to pay the rent, but also to advance with the training and have some diversity. So where is the problem in doing a market research? It's only the word "marked" that has this vile, capitalist sound, but knowing what you do before starting is simply common sense.

Have a nice week-end!

Eva
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #67
Tom Verhoeven
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Anyone who thinks strength doesn't make a difference needs to train with stronger people.

At equal skill levels, the stronger person will win. That's just physics.

With that said, some of the most intimidating people I know in aikido are small women. They make up for their diminutive size with tremendous skill and enormous spirit. Small women absolutely can develop excellent aikido.

But so can men. Which is why competitions are and should be segregated. Judo has weight classes, too, for the same reason.

Katherine
I am trying to come up with a situation where strenght does make a difference, but for now I cannot think of one.

At equal skill levels the stronger person will win? Really? It is an argument that I have heard men use before. But I do not think that this is true in sports competition or in nature for that matter. It certainly is not true in war or in a fight. And it is most certainly not true in Aikido or in Budo in general.

Over the past decades I have come across many women who where better skilled in Aikido then the men that they trained with on a daily basis. Perhaps because as science tells us, women have better developed coordination skills, while men (especially young men) trust their muscle power to get the job done. In Aikido that trust in muscle power will bring a limit with it in progression.

Having said that; Aikido is not about winning or about competition. It is more about personal growth and that is something that cannot be measured or compared with someone else. Aikido is really a path equally suited for both men and women.

It just hit me; dead weight lifting contests, that is were strength could make the difference!

Tom
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #68
kewms
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
At equal skill levels the stronger person will win? Really? It is an argument that I have heard men use before. But I do not think that this is true in sports competition or in nature for that matter. It certainly is not true in war or in a fight. And it is most certainly not true in Aikido or in Budo in general.

Over the past decades I have come across many women who where better skilled in Aikido then the men that they trained with on a daily basis. Perhaps because as science tells us, women have better developed coordination skills, while men (especially young men) trust their muscle power to get the job done. In Aikido that trust in muscle power will bring a limit with it in progression.
Note that I said *equal* skill levels. Sure, women can be more skillful than men, and therefore can make up for their strength deficit. But combat sports have weight classes for a reason.

Consider ikkyo. Nage is taking uke down to the mat, and for a moment is standing between uke's arm and uke's body. There are men who are strong enough to pick me up, with one arm, from that position. How could that kind of strength *not* be an advantage?

Katherine
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:50 PM   #69
jackie adams
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Hello again to everyone,

It was asked of me to cite some references to the things I have learned over the years that has shaped my view on the differences in training men and women. At the time, I wasn't able to pull anything up off hand to cite because my research wasn't a scholarly one. My travels where an adventure into knowledge, a tactile learn by doing approach. Just like Aikido is. Unable to help the person asking for more information, made me a bit uncomfortable. Why? Because I like helping others, and I couldn't help.

Being Monday morning I did a bit of web searching as I tried to remember some of the important things I read up on over the years that would be useful. In a few minutes of searching, lo and behold I found something wonderful that I could cite. A word of warning I am not sure if I had read this author before, or if this is the first time.The point of the article and the information it gives matches with my thinking on training. You can't use the same teaching approach for both sexes. That being a fact, it would make sense to provide learning environments attentive to each sex base on how they learn.

Male and Female Differences Dan Hodgins, Coordinator Early Childhood Education http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Hodgins1.pdf

I know some are going to object. I would like to see the counter argument showing it isn't true many more women feel comfortable going into a class with another female (or male/friend or husband) friend then alone. More women joining an Aikido class for the first time can feel intimidated being the only female in a class of men. A class when surveyed by many woman come to the conclusion she would be uncomfortable in that class. Because it is mostly male students, if not all, even if there is a female instructor. Here we have a situation where a woman needs a class that fits her learning style, and yet has no choice to join a class of men - there are no classes for her learning style. Why should she have to make that choice? Why isn't there a class for her that understands how she learns best?

The class structure I am setting up isn't going to be inflexible. Recognizing some students learn best under mixed gender classes is very much important. I will run 3 adult classes a week. A general class mixing both men and women, if they want. A women's and men's only classes for those who want it. Then the kids classes separate from the adults. The challenge I see upon the horizon is I will be facing the establish orthodox training philosophies of others. There is a difference in the way women and men learn. My opinion is by recognizing there are different training and learning needs between the sexes it increases student learning and success. Students regardless of sex when in classes that fit them and their needs they are happier and learn better. That is why I will offer the 3 classes.

I need to get back to work for now, hoping in the future I can share more.

Last edited by jackie adams : 03-19-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:23 PM   #70
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
There is a difference in the way women and men learn. .
What are those differences? I have not been under the impression that learning style is gender specific. I ,for instance, am a kinesthetic learner with a bit of reading. Another woman I know is more visual and yet another is an audio learner. I believe males also fit these various learning styles.

A good teacher will help a student to find their best learning style and help them to make use of it within the parameters of the class.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:33 PM   #71
lbb
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
The point of the article and the information it gives matches with my thinking on training. You can't use the same teaching approach for both sexes. That being a fact, it would make sense to provide learning environments attentive to each sex base on how they learn.
My interpretation of the article was that it's based on statistical observations of male and female subjects, generally and within a structured academic learning context. The age range implied is preschool through adolescence. I'm not sure that there are implications for how men and women learn aikido.

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
I know some are going to object. I would like to see the counter argument showing it isn't true many more women feel comfortable going into a class with another female (or male/friend or husband) friend then alone.
I'm assuming that you mean your argument, since the article doesn't make arguments. I don't think the burden of proof is really on the rest of the world here, to be honest. Nor is it on you to prove your argument (although in the statement above, I think you've departed from your original argument, substituting "going to a class with a friend of either gender vs. going alone" for "going to an all-women class vs. going to a mixed-gender class"). If you want to use your belief as the basis for how you structure your classes, that's your prerogative. I think, though, that you might consider the limitations of the marketing adage "All you have to do is get them through the door." Like many other marketing adages, it's just not so. I can easily believe that many women with no prior martial arts experience would feel more comfortable with the idea of an all-women class, simply because most women are socialized to be uncomfortable with physical contact with a man who they're not in a close relationship with. But what happens then? I guess the idea is that gradually, these women develop enough confidence to cross over and train with men? Or do you intend to maintain a dual track perpetually? And if so, what happens to your students when they train outside your dojo?

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
More women joining an Aikido class for the first time can feel intimidated being the only female in a class of men. A class when surveyed by many woman come to the conclusion she would be uncomfortable in that class. Because it is mostly male students, if not all, even if there is a female instructor.
Really? I'd be interested to see the details of such a survey, methodology, etc. My guess would have been that many women would find the idea of training with men uncomfortable or intimidating. But when they observe a class, they would see that the reality is different: that partner practice is not a sexual situation, that bullying doesn't happen, etc.

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
Here we have a situation where a woman needs a class that fits her learning style, and yet has no choice to join a class of men - there are no classes for her learning style. Why should she have to make that choice? Why isn't there a class for her that understands how she learns best?
Again, you're equating gender with learning style, as if the two are indivisible and monolithic. The article you cited spoke of tendencies, not absolutes. Furthermore, it spoke of differences without attempting to quantify them, and certainly didn't state that they're diametrically opposed or incapable of being addressed within the same learning context. If you look at Kolb's learning styles, you'll see IMO much more radical differences in learning style than those described in the article -- give a teacher a class with five doers and five thinkers, and you're talking about a real challenge! And yet in order to teach aikido, a sensei must teach successfully to all four types.

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
The class structure I am setting up isn't going to be inflexible. Recognizing some students learn best under mixed gender classes is very much important. I will run 3 adult classes a week. A general class mixing both men and women, if they want. A women's and men's only classes for those who want it. Then the kids classes separate from the adults. The challenge I see upon the horizon is I will be facing the establish orthodox training philosophies of others. There is a difference in the way women and men learn.
A women's class isn't particularly unorthodox, they're pretty common. Our dojo used to have one, although it doesn't any more. Of the women who took the class, I think one part weren't going to continue training long-term no matter what (the usual attrition rate), one part were going to continue training no matter what (and did train in the mixed classes), and one part hid out in the women's class because of a perceived difference between those and the mixed classes. In fact, it may have become a self-fulfilling prophecy, as the women's class became the refuge of a few very tentative people who created this idea in their heads that this class would be easier, simpler, not do hard ukemi, etc. Ukemi is hard, and working to improve your ukemi is hard, and this class gave these people a place where they felt comfortable -- because as you know, when someone just can't do good ukemi, you have no choice but to take it easy on them. A comfortable place is one thing, but a place where you can learn is not always comfortable. For a while, these tentative people made up enough of the students in the women's class that the class had to be easy just so people wouldn't get hurt -- but it couldn't last, and didn't. We don't have a women's class any more, but all those people had left before we got to that point.

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Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
There is a difference in the way women and men learn. My opinion is by recognizing there are different training and learning needs between the sexes it increases student learning and success.
So, what is the difference, as relevant to an aikido dojo? Put succinctly, what are the different training and learning needs of a women vs. a man?
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:07 PM   #72
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

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Old 03-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #73
phitruong
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

you folks are still here trying to figure out the differences between male and female? you folks never played doctor when you were kids? i noticed right away the differences the first time on the mat. for one thing, the females, in general, are better looking. sorry, but most of you blokes are kinda not very remotely attractive. then there is the smell. the females smell better too, all around.

personally, i don't think much about the differences when it comes to martial arts. i guess growing up in a country where women were encouraged to take up arms and be at the front-line, sort of taking the issues of male and female in martial arts or combat, out of my view. it also helped when the girls there didn't play with barbie dolls, but preferred to kick kent's ass and took him prisoner. ever wonder why we men rather went to war instead of staying behind and deal with the women? just observe for a moment the conversation, one night, in an unspecified tent, of Gengis Khan horde.

GK (Gengis Khan): ok, did you all made a good excuses to sneak out of your tents?
Horde leaders: yes, GK.
Matthew "the camel": the wives kept asking me about when i would be back. i need to get back early; otherwise, they will be really mad.
Horde leaders: me too. me too.
GK: OK. you are a bunch of spineless women!
Horde leaders: GK, you sneaked out too!
GK: Don't make me go over there and kick your asses!
Chris "the fallen": you have no idea what it likes with them! just the other day, my second wife asked me about about... her wrapping dress. she asked me if i liked the color. i said "yes". then she said "i don't seem to be enthusiast about it" that i hated the color. then she went tearful on me!
GK and Horde: sheesh! sorry man, that's tough break. we all have been there. pass the man the wine skin!
Marc "the brute": that's nothing! my third wife asked me about if she's fat!
Horde: *gasp" what did you say?
Marc "the brute": i said i love her whatever shape she in.
Horde: *collectively shaking head of impending doom*
Marc "the brute": she went all pouty and crying and weeping and the rest of wives joined her! i wanted to kill something badly so i went out and milked the goats!
GK: cheer up man! here, drink some wine from my wine skin!
John "the hacker": that's nothing. the other day, my first wife asked me if i know what day is this? i could barely remembered my own manhood if it wasn't attach to me and she asked me the day? it turned out it was our anniversary where we wed over the pile of dead bodies from that looting by the yellow river. and i forgot to steal some flowers for her! *sobbing* it was so bad i had to sleep in the tent with her for a couple of days.
Horde: that ain't bad!
John: and talked about feelings! *sobbing*
Horde: *collective gasp NO NOT FEELING!"
GK: OK. that does it! so we are all agree that we will take the horde to the southern plain and sweeping across the world to be away from the women folks, right?
Horde: RIGHT!!!
GK; here is the plan. we will gather up the clans and sneak out early in the morning, before the women wake up around noon.
Horde: what excuse do we use?
GK: gone fishing!
Horde: but we are in the middle of the damn desert!
GK: right, we will go until we can find a place to fish! i heard of this place called hawaii. we should heading in that direction.

and there rest is history!

*for the longer version of the meeting notes, i might post it at a later time*

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:11 PM   #74
LinTal
Dojo: Aikido Terrey Hills
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Re: Countering Ikkyo with Strength

Ah, so *that's* what happened!!

Phi, you just made my day.

The world changes when you do.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:15 PM   #75
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: Differences between female & male practitioners

Quote:
Jackie Adams wrote: View Post
Male and Female Differences Dan Hodgins, Coordinator Early Childhood Education http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/Hodgins1.pdf
That isn't exactly a piece of scientific work. Who's this Dan Hodgins who wrote it? I fail to find any scientific articles from him on the brain (searching Pubmed, the relevant database for medical research). Your PDF file says he's a "Coordinator Early Childhood Education", OK. His sources? He doesn't state. Could be popular books like "Men Are From Venus and Women From Alpha Centauri", or whatever.

The text certainly isn't scientific. Talking about differences between two groups is completely irrelevant unless you also state
1) how big these differences are. Numbers, percentages, graphs and tables in an article makes it less appealing for a quick glance, but a lot more informative. This article hardly mentions any numbers at all.
2) how big the variation is within the groups in question (in this case male and female).

Let's say, for instance, that men on average is better than women in the task X. Wow, we have gender differences! Women truly are from Alpha Centauri!

We get closer, and see that on average they are 15% better at X. That's a difference - but it's not huge. This kind of data will be interesting to scientists but it doesn't have a huge impact in normal live.

However we're not satisfied with that either. We check for the variation within the groups - and that proves to be far far bigger than 15%. Some men are more than 100% better at X that others. Some women are much better than some other women - and some women are a hell of a lot better than some men. Actually, as much as 30% of the women are better at X than the average male.

This is how data on gender differences in the brain typically look when you come closer. Which the popular books seldom say.

By all means, create your class system and test it, I'd like to hear how it went! But I very much doubt that you have any science behind it. Not any biological/medical, at least.
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