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Old 03-16-2012, 10:14 AM   #1
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
Location: surabaya
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It's getting annoying..

ever since I passed my yudansha exam, Sensei has asked me to teach some of the classes and that made me unable to train as hard as I wanted to. and it's been almost six months since Sensei started asking me to teach the classes..

I'm really tired of teaching beginners in my current dojo. I had to hold back when doing a technique with them, thus I don't get the exercise I came to train for (they can't do a decent ukemi because my dojo focuses more on teaching them how to be a nage, instead of uke). I don't get to improve my timing because I have to stop in each movements to show them to the students..

I just love the feeling when I can do a technique with correct timing and flow. I've actually been having a bad mood if I couldn't spend 2 hours throwing and getting thrown at least every other day. maybe it's the endorphine or something.. I also want to be able to train as hard as I can when I still have the energy and time for it, instead of wasting my time teaching people who don't even really have the passion for aikido. they said that they want to exercise. but instead of training hard, most of them just chat on the mat. it really pisses me off and make me want to leave them and pair up with other senior students who I can apply my real aikido to and have the desire to learn and train hard..

english is not my first language so I can't describe my feelings very well but I hope that you get how irritated I'm feeling. I'm actually considering taking up capoeira and taekwondo to get the exercise I wanted that Aikido can't provide me.

I believe that some of you have had this kind of feeling/experience before so I'd really like to hear how you handled it..

Last edited by dapidmini : 03-16-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:21 AM   #2
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Teaching too much, too soon is a good way to burn out. At least if it prevents one from training oneself.

In how big portion of the aikido classes that you take part of do you teach only?
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #3
ramenboy
Dojo: midwest aikido center
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Re: It's getting annoying..

go to the classes you DON'T teach, and get your practice in

and take alot of ukemi from your students

practice hard
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:39 AM   #4
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Ask to get paid for your work as instructor.

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Old 03-16-2012, 11:20 AM   #5
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
In how big portion of the aikido classes that you take part of do you teach only?
my dojo holds 6 classes a week and every senior students are asked to pair up with the new people. and there are new people coming in almost every month. so we always have to pair up with the new people. as one of the most senior students, Sensei usually put me in charge of the new people. so basically every time I attend a class, I'm supposed to pair up with the new people even though I'm not the one teaching that class.

Quote:
Jerome Cervantes wrote: View Post
go to the classes you DON'T teach, and get your practice in

and take alot of ukemi from your students
a class in my dojo where I don't have to teach is very rare. it only happens when all the students that are attending the class are above 3rd kyu.

the new people can't even do the techniques well (at least not for my standard for new people) thus my ukemi is not comfortable..

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Ask to get paid for your work as instructor.
my dojo is in a financial trouble as it is. even the admin, who also teach some of the classes, don't get paid. we use all of the tuition money to pay for the dojo's rent and paying Sensei. the only person getting paid in our dojo is Sensei because we're having him come from a neighbor town.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:23 AM   #6
chillzATL
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Ask to get paid for your work as instructor.
problem solved!
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:30 AM   #7
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
problem solved!
I'm currently making enough money. so I'm not interested in asking money from the dojo when the dojo is having financial problems..
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:48 AM   #8
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

during class break, before class, after class - those times you can ask other ranked members to work with you, be your uke or be their uke to get your exercise in. think out of the box (mine is chinese take-out and you never know what you get) for the solution.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:56 AM   #9
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
during class break, before class, after class - those times you can ask other ranked members to work with you, be your uke or be their uke to get your exercise in. think out of the box (mine is chinese take-out and you never know what you get) for the solution.
when the mat is set, the class starts right away. after the class has ended, the mats get stored in the storage room right away. during class breaks, the new people also asks me to teach them the previous techniques and I have to do the administrative works such as signing their attendance book.. and more often than not, I'm the only senior student to attend the class.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:59 AM   #10
Rob Watson
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
David Santana wrote: View Post
I believe that some of you have had this kind of feeling/experience before so I'd really like to hear how you handled it..
Patience. Think of it as you are bring these folks up to the level where they can do the fun stuff. How else are you going to get a variety of well trained folks to work with if they don't get trained?

If your ukemi is uncomfortable with beginners you have got a huge hole in your skill set that needs a tremendous amount of work. $0.02.

Last edited by akiy : 03-16-2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tag

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #11
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Sounds like you don't want to be yudansha - give up your rank and become a beginner again and then you can train with all the senor people you want
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:45 PM   #12
ramenboy
Dojo: midwest aikido center
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Re: It's getting annoying..

here's something to think about... how did you get through YOUR training? do you think your sensei/sempai had the same feelings about you?

time to give back a little.

practice hard
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:59 PM   #13
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: It's getting annoying..

I have the same issue, albeit it is in my BJJ class. I am a brown belt in BJJ, and the most senior guy around my area. I virtually have no one to challenge and train me and I spend almost 100% of my time instructing.

As my black belt told me, welcome to the other side! I am now in a postion where I will spend most of my time leading and teaching and less just having fun training.

It is a different level of growth. I am held even more accountable for doing techniques, kata, and movements correctly. I have to set the example, so my growth and development is different. I have to work on my communication skills and learn how to work with students.

Maybe look at what you are doing in a different light?

It was hard for me at first making the transition to being a senior, but now I understand it better. I still like it when I can get on the mat with guys that are better than me and just have fun and roll. However, those times are rare these days. I feel your pain!

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Old 03-16-2012, 01:00 PM   #14
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Jerome Cervantes wrote: View Post
time to give back a little.
How was the saying? Give them a hand and they'll take your arm?

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Old 03-16-2012, 01:12 PM   #15
Shadowfax
 
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Re: It's getting annoying..

I am still working my way toward shodan but I understand a bit of what you are feeling. We have a flood of new people in our small dojo and yep all of the more experienced students are expected to pair up with and help the beginners. Yep sometimes you just want to work out hard and sometimes it is frustrating to work with someone who does not know where to put his/her hands or feet let alone how to do a technique.

But you know I have found that I learn a whole lot of things while trying to find a way to teach someone what they need to do. I notice things and become aware of details I had not really thought of for a while if at all. There is a lot of value in working with brand new people, remembering that we to were once brand new. Teaching new people has helped me to be much more aware of what I am doing in my own training.

Luckily for me our little dojo has classes set aside that are only for the more advanced students so we do get to train hard too and sometimes sensei will specifically pair up a couple of advanced students and give them something more complex to work on while he/she is working with beginners on something else. Maybe you should ask your sensei to do something similar if he has not already.

Remember that the dojo needs fresh blood. You need those beginners especially for a small dojo that is just making ends meet. You don't want to chase them away by your resentful attitude. Trust me they can feel that from you and it will discourage many of them from continuing.

Talk to your sensei about your frustrations if you are able and even ask some of the more advanced people to work out with you hard after class or use one of them for demo and really throw them around to show your new student what will be possible for them in the future. Just this week I really was having a fierce need to just really train hard and get thrown around and I made that need known and had no problem finding a number of people more than happy to fill that need for me. My own teachers took up that task quite happily.

One of the things my teachers have made sure to tell us from early on. We should expect that as we progress we will have more responsibility to help those behind us to learn and once shodan has been reached we ought to expect that we will be required to take up some of the responsibly in teaching. I have already been required to bow in and lead class a couple of times. I look at those assignments as a mark of my teacher's trust in me and as a privileged assignment rather than an onerous and distasteful chore.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:14 PM   #16
Janet Rosen
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Re: It's getting annoying..

If I haven't absorbed enough after a certain # of yrs on the mat to essentially be self-correcting a fair amount of the time, if I can't learn from working with beginners, then I figure I ought to quit aikido.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:16 PM   #17
ramenboy
Dojo: midwest aikido center
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
How was the saying? Give them a hand and they'll take your arm?
ha! or wrist? :P

practice hard
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #18
Walter Martindale
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Jerome Cervantes wrote: View Post
here's something to think about... how did you get through YOUR training? do you think your sensei/sempai had the same feelings about you?

time to give back a little.
I was going to say.. I wonder how the senior students felt while they were helping you learn to the stage you're at...

Learn from the people you're practicing with - help them get better so that you've got more senior folks around, and then THEY can help some of the beginners...
W
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #19
dapidmini
Dojo: Surabaya Aikido Dojo
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Jerome Cervantes wrote: View Post
here's something to think about... how did you get through YOUR training? do you think your sensei/sempai had the same feelings about you?
I agree that we shouldn't always be on the receiving end, and we have to give back at some point. but one can only stand so much boredom before he snaps..

I first started Aikido in a dojo where the mats were fixed on the floor. so we didn't have to set up and put them away after class is over. and I had my brother (who lives in another province now) to work with. we started together, so we were both beginners. fortunately, my cousin was a fast learner so we were able to train a lot after class WITHOUT much help from our seniors (they just needed to point out a few things a few times, and we'll remember it and practice until we get it right). I'm sad that none of the new people in my dojo can or willing to take as much training or pain that we went through

Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
I was going to say.. I wonder how the senior students felt while they were helping you learn to the stage you're at...

Learn from the people you're practicing with - help them get better so that you've got more senior folks around, and then THEY can help some of the beginners...
W
my previous dojo has A LOT of yudanshas so they take turns on taking charge of the new people. and the Sensei didn't bother with the new people too much, because most of the people that came there were really prepared to train and learn hard. so they actually listen and remembers what were shown in the front(just 4 times for each technique, 1 left and right omote, 1 left and right ura). we were basically taking care of ourselves most of the time.

Last edited by dapidmini : 03-16-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:02 PM   #20
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Unless you are an Academy Award level actor, you can bet the beginners can feel and sense your attitude. That doesn't create an environment where they will want to return and work hard to become better. They don't know enough to do you any favors and you certainly sound as if you're not doing them any favors. Either develop a positive attitude towards teaching them or give up on the teaching until you can show that kind of attitude.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:40 AM   #21
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
David Santana wrote: View Post
ever since I passed my yudansha exam, Sensei has asked me to teach some of the classes and that made me unable to train as hard as I wanted to. and it's been almost six months since Sensei started asking me to teach the classes..

I'm really tired of teaching beginners in my current dojo. I had to hold back when doing a technique with them, thus I don't get the exercise I came to train for (they can't do a decent ukemi because my dojo focuses more on teaching them how to be a nage, instead of uke). I don't get to improve my timing because I have to stop in each movements to show them to the students..

I just love the feeling when I can do a technique with correct timing and flow. I've actually been having a bad mood if I couldn't spend 2 hours throwing and getting thrown at least every other day. maybe it's the endorphine or something.. I also want to be able to train as hard as I can when I still have the energy and time for it, instead of wasting my time teaching people who don't even really have the passion for aikido. they said that they want to exercise. but instead of training hard, most of them just chat on the mat. it really pisses me off and make me want to leave them and pair up with other senior students who I can apply my real aikido to and have the desire to learn and train hard..

english is not my first language so I can't describe my feelings very well but I hope that you get how irritated I'm feeling. I'm actually considering taking up capoeira and taekwondo to get the exercise I wanted that Aikido can't provide me.

I believe that some of you have had this kind of feeling/experience before so I'd really like to hear how you handled it..
Dear Mr Santana,
If your sensei is asking you to take every class every day I could say you a some justification to be upset.On the other hand if you are only teaching one /two classes a week whats the problem?I think you come across to me as somewhat self centred./selfish.By that I mean you are thinking about you.
If you had not been taught by someone , who spent time /energy with you , you would not be a dan grade,?Why not use your time spent with these beginners to polish your own art do you think because you now have first dan you are a good aikidoka? Teaching allows one to contribute something back to others.All you appear to be is resentful of beginners. If the beginners are lazy , as the teacher you do something about it . Wake them up !! The beginners are necessary in a dojo -they are the future.You should feel honoured that your instructor thinks you are capable of teaching them.
Your attitude is not helping the members.Who would want a teacher who is not interested /lacks patience /clearly is bored to tears and cannot be bothered. My advice either alter you mindset , or have the guts to tell you instructor you do not want to teach.As it is if I was in your class with you as my instructor[thankfully I am not] I would ditch you as fast as possible., What Aikido needs most of all are competent teachers who are compassionate /skilled/patient and care about their members.
In my book you do not exemplify these virtues.Do your teacher and your students a favour.Change your perspective/stop teaching or leave and take up something else. To my mind you have learnt a few waza , but little about Aikido. Cheers, Joe.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:04 AM   #22
Hanna B
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Jerome Cervantes wrote: View Post
here's something to think about... how did you get through YOUR training? do you think your sensei/sempai had the same feelings about you?

time to give back a little.
Well.

Yeah.

But.

Why doesn't the dojo have more yudansha? Perhaps it is something in how the dojo is operated and how the classes are taught, that make them disappear. Maybe they all get worn out by having this burden laid on them. They don't yet know how to learn from training with beginners, and they seldom feel they get much out from practise.

Teaching mixed level classes, including beginners, while giving something to all levels is difficult. I really don't think that those who never trained in such a setting, and much less taught such classes, will understand.

Perhaps you recieved lots of pushing and help before the shodan test, and now your teacher puts part of that energy elsewhere? Still, it's not clever letting the advanced students feel they are almost forgotten and ignored. David S, maybe you should talk to your teacher about it. There's no guarantee you'll have satisfying answers from him. But maybe you'll get him thinking. Perhaps he can compensate you by tossing you aroung for a couple of minutes, a couple of times during class, so you'll be happy to go back to the beginners to get some rest or something like that. (Oh yes, you learn a lot from taking ukemi from skilled people) OTOH he may get angry at you and think you are ungrateful. Well... you are already thinking about leaving if the situation doesn't get any better, right?
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:42 AM   #23
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Why not take over the class and only hold classes twice a week. The other time you can visit the dojo from the nearby town that the curent sensei comes from and train there?

Lyle Laizure
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Old 03-17-2012, 10:59 AM   #24
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
Lyle Laizure wrote: View Post
Why not take over the class and only hold classes twice a week. The other time you can visit the dojo from the nearby town that the curent sensei comes from and train there?
Dear Lyle,
Nice way of escaping.The problem is not the sensei or the members/beginners. The problem is the man himself. He is a person who seems to use others and brings little to the table in respect of giving back that which someone gave him. Cheers, Joe
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:03 AM   #25
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: It's getting annoying..

Quote:
David Santana wrote: View Post
I'm currently making enough money. so I'm not interested in asking money from the dojo when the dojo is having financial problems..
Dear David,
I see that you have one redeeming quality here. Why not discover other traits , eg wiliingness , enthusiasm to help others , your sensei who perhaps need your support?Service to others can be rewarding. Cheers, Joe
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