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Old 09-29-2002, 12:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
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AikiWeb Poll for the week of September 29, 2002:

Do you think koshinage as practiced in aikido is a martially effective technique?
  • I don't do aikido
  • Yes, and I practice koshinage
  • Yes, and I do not practice koshinage
  • No, and I practice koshinage
  • No, and I do not practice koshinage
Here are the current results.
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Old 09-29-2002, 01:45 AM   #2
JW
 
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Just my opinion..

Koshinage, like all the katas we practice in Aikido, is a particular scenerio. It tells a story.

In certain situations (ie uke moving with a certain intent with motion in a particular direction, etc) koshinage is wonderful.

Obviously you can't just try to force it and then say "it's so unnatural" after it feels like it wouldn't have worked off the mat.

--JW
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Old 09-29-2002, 03:13 AM   #3
Creature_of_the_id
 
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if kokyonage is viable, then koshinage is viable. I do it and teach it like a breath throw but standing up with your hips in the way for your partner to fall over.

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Old 09-29-2002, 08:39 AM   #4
Chuck Clark
 
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Koshinage are like any other waza...if the waza "fits" the occasion, and is done properly following good principles, it'll work fine.

Chuck Clark
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www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 09-29-2002, 10:44 AM   #5
Jermaine Alley
Dojo: Aikido Of Richmond
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Every technique in Aikido has its time and place..

jermaine
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Old 09-29-2002, 11:38 AM   #6
Brian H
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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I was having a "bad day" on the mat and a strong uke came down on me like a ton of bricks with a shomen. As I found myself about to get over powered, I realized all I hand to do was step in and throw him koshinage. His strong downward strike helped me drop my center and actually made the technique work. (great reverse out of ikkyo too). Is koshi a great "plan A?" No, but it is a great place to move on to.

Evil triumphs when good men do nothing
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Old 09-30-2002, 12:57 AM   #7
Ta Kung
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Koshi nage is perhaps the only technique I don't like in Aikido. Reason? When I do it, I can't do it fast enough. I'm really bad at it. Sure, it has improved during my limited time of Aikido practise. But either way, it's damn hard to do... I know that the problem is not the technique, but rather the way I'm doing it. I'm working on it though. Perhaps it will grow on me in a few years.

Regards,

Patrik
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Old 09-30-2002, 11:38 AM   #8
Alfonso
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I'm not sure about the "as practiced in aikido" part.. i seem to feel differently about my practice.



Koshinage works fine for me if I can get low enough, mantain the correct posture and am close enough so that it fits the dynamics of the movement.

but alas, no move is appropriate all the time, so sure enough its very possible to have it countered if the opening isn't there and you try it anyway.

I like koshinage because its a challenging technique to learn, as nage and uke. I think the fear of ukemi from the possible variations of this technique is a probably a reason its not seen so oftern in class.

But if you're in close, and feel the momentum, it works all right for me.
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Old 09-30-2002, 03:19 PM   #9
kironin
 
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Koshinage is like the spinning back kick in Karate.

It has a big wow-factor but also a much greater risk than other techniques of going horribly wrong.

For Judo players working in close in competition it makes some sense.

For Aikidoka in a self-defense situation (martially-effective), it is just plain stupidity. Any place the energy would be right for one, a timing throw would be quicker and safer.

It's only going to be the best solution with either a stupid attacker or when there is a blue moon over Aruba.

Craig
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Old 09-30-2002, 10:11 PM   #10
M Planner
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I just signed on to add my 2 cents. Yes, koshi-nage works, particularly the shiho form. I had a buddy of mine who boxed and wrestled and I could get him pretty easy with a shiho entry koshi nage. Pretty fast too once you get the entry. I think some folks put koshi nage down (there's a pun there somewhere) because they don't practice them or they're just repeating what they've been told. Oh well, to each his own.
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Old 10-01-2002, 10:50 AM   #11
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
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Just like a 'real world' ikkyo may be more about a slight unbalancing onto the back foot and a little bit of exposure of the partner's back side, a 'real world' koshi nage may be more about how to make sure that, when you are in close, it is your hip that is under your partners and your legs that are under your hip. If you can get that much, throwing the partner over your hip may be a secondary issue.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 10-01-2002, 10:50 AM   #12
mike lee
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Thumbs down multiple uses

One thing I like about koshi is that if you do it real slow, you can feel your hara and the hara of your uke harmonize, provided he goes directly over your hara.

In addition, the movement can easily be turned into the fireman's carry, which is a wrestling technique that can also be used to transport an injured person away from danger. I think they use it a lot in special-forces training.
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Old 10-01-2002, 11:30 AM   #13
aiki_what
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One "Martial" way to think of Koshinage is as atemi. You shoot the hip into uke to impact then you throw after you upset the balance. I have had great "blended" koshi throws with a cooperative nage but for those obstinate ones....impact with the hip into the groin first, then throw. Impacting the groin area with the hip also helps uke get underneath nage and consequently gives nage a reason to raise up the slightest bit to try and avoid the impact.
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