Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2012, 01:48 PM   #201
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,371
Germany
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Marc wrote:

Quote:
When I add this stuff into the typical training paradigms, I normally have to do some psych. debriefing to help the person whose issues were set off, properly process what happened so that the person can use the experience as a building block on the way to being able to respond effectively during high stress events/interactions.
Which is why you will never see me teach a weekend self defense seminar to a women's group. o get any real value out of it requires, IMO, a reality check that might put some folks into a psychological mess if you take them from zero to 60 and introduce to them the reality of rape and violence. So, if you simply do the key chain thing and the foot stomp, you send them away with a good feeling, but no better off than when they came into the dojo. Actually you made it worse.

You see, this is the very core of why I have issue with this noncompetive mind stuff. Please someone tell me how this would benefit someone that is being violently assaulted? They need to recognize that they are in a competition for their life. It is real and they better have a strong ego if they want to live.

It briefs well to talk about remaining calm under pressure, and there is value to this, but in reality when u are losing and fighting for your life, you will not be calm, you are competing, and you need to be emotionally charged and alive to fight for your life. It is the default physical skills that matter under stress.

Now if their is no stress and you are in control, then by all means go to your calm happy place, but you must take that guy serious and realize that you are still competing.

Like I said, in budo, we have enough to do getting our heads screwed on straight to deal with conflict than to start muddying the waters with feeling good about ourselves.

In the end if you are ever in a real violent situation, you must do things that you don't like, that will make you feel ugly and dirty. You will be an emotional wreck afterwards until sometime passes. However, if you train and prepare yourself ahead of time, you can make the best choices you can make, and minimize the PTSD issues you experience, and yes, everyone gets some sort of PTSD, it is how you manage it that determine how it affects you in the long run.

Now hopefully most of us will never experience what I am describing, but that should not mean we cannot train properly and still realize the benefits of training for conflicts that are not phsycial violent encounters.

Last edited by akiy : 03-05-2012 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 01:54 PM   #202
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,883
Spain
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
In the end if you are ever in a real violent situation, you must do things that you don't like, that will make you feel ugly and dirty. You will be an emotional wreck afterwards until sometime passes. However, if you train and prepare yourself ahead of time, you can make the best choices you can make, and minimize the PTSD issues you experience, and yes, everyone gets some sort of PTSD, it is how you manage it that determine how it affects you in the long run.
That's training the spirit.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 01:54 PM   #203
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,371
Germany
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Kevin, I read your post (188). Very nicely put. From the heart. Your view.

Now if someone came to me and whether they had watched me or trained with me or just met me but said they were looking for someone to teach them physical Aikido and gave me a good reasoned explanation as to why then I would gladly send them in your direction.

Thus there is for me no competition.

Peace.G.
Thanks. So to clarify..then what you are teaching...you don't consider it a martial art then?

So what do you consider it? A physical meditation, mind improvement process, or something like that?

Are you upfront with your students about the limitations of their training?

What is the end state you are trying to achieve for the,?

Just want to see where you stand on this so I can better understand your position on the spectrum.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 06:30 PM   #204
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Thanks. So to clarify..then what you are teaching...you don't consider it a martial art then?

So what do you consider it? A physical meditation, mind improvement process, or something like that?

Are you upfront with your students about the limitations of their training?

What is the end state you are trying to achieve for the,?

Just want to see where you stand on this so I can better understand your position on the spectrum.
Hi, been busy on another thread.

I don't think it needs clarifying as I have done so many times before. This time though I will answer but not go into debate on as I have already explained before my views. (unless it's a brand new question)

Yes I do consider it a martial art.

I consider it a spiritual martial art. Much like a zen martial art.

End state is stable, capable people, very end state is enlightened people.

I am very upfront with my students and they know the capabilities of it. There are no limitations.

I doubt that gives you a 'fitting in a spectrum' view. Best stick with outside of your experience view I would suggest.

Not much else I can say.

Peace.G.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 09:31 PM   #205
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,371
Germany
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Thanks for the response, it is helpful to see your position.
So how many people have you enlightened over the years?
Understand it is a on going process, just curious how your students are doing in this area since it is your focus.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 12:41 AM   #206
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Thanks for the response, it is helpful to see your position.
So how many people have you enlightened over the years?
Understand it is a on going process, just curious how your students are doing in this area since it is your focus.
Yes, it is an ongoing process.

How many? Is that a trick question? If you mean full enlightenment, the final end state then I consider it such.

If you mean it as a verb then every single student over the years is the answer. From day one. They can't help but hit enlightening realizations the way I teach for it is par for the course and expected. It's what I offer and it's what I deliver.

They learn the spiritual and how it relates to the mental and physical in practice and this opens there eyes to their own potential and their own life, let alone life itself. Now that's quite enlightening for someone in itself. They learn many things they had previously thought impossible or only read about in fiction books. That too is enlightening.

They learn that the path is one of harmony and just how hard that is yet how true it is and that too is enlightening.

Thus their lives get better, they get more confident, they handle problems in life much better and become more enlightened good and reasonable and able people.

Not all at the same rate obviously. Thus Aikido is a great tool for the problems on the mat are a mere reflection of how they approach similar in life and show the next barrier for them to go through.

Every conceivable situation in Aikido represents a problem or situation in life that you must solve, handle directly with harmony. Thus without harmful intent, without harm, without anger or fear or any other negative emotion, without force, without someone coming to your rescue, without thinking, without the view of escape, without reaction, selflessly.

Peace.G.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 04:04 PM   #207
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,371
Germany
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

thanks Graham

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #208
TheAikidoka
 
TheAikidoka's Avatar
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo UK - mid sussex martial arts school
Location: Brighton
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
England
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
The Dai Nippon Butokukai has kind of a checkered history and is, currently, a very minor organization in Japan without much real connection to the pre-war group of the same name. It appears to be somewhat larger outside of Japan than in.

There's a kind of interesting (if old) discussion here.

The summary here is a little better if you can read Japanese.

To get back to "peace", I think that before discussing peace in Aikido it should be established whether or not Morihei Ueshiba was in fact a pacifist (Kisshomaru denied that either he or his father were pacifists), and/or if he was a pacifist then what "peace" would mean to him.

Peace might, for example, mean something different to someone like Arnaud Amalric than it does to most people here (or so I imagine!).

Best,

Chris
Sorry about the lateness of my response. Here you can find the History of DNBK and the international division of the organization. I wanted to post the whole article, however the material is copy righted, so I can only post the link:

http://www.dnbk.org/history.cfm

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Andy B
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 11:20 AM   #209
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,951
United_States
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Andrew Bedford wrote: View Post
Sorry about the lateness of my response. Here you can find the History of DNBK and the international division of the organization. I wanted to post the whole article, however the material is copy righted, so I can only post the link:

http://www.dnbk.org/history.cfm

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Andy B
As I said, the information here is a little better, if you can read Japanese.

The post-war organization has no real connection to any major Aikido organization that I am aware of. There's nothing wrong with that, of course.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 07:07 AM   #210
TheAikidoka
 
TheAikidoka's Avatar
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo UK - mid sussex martial arts school
Location: Brighton
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
England
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
As I said, the information here is a little better, if you can read Japanese.

The post-war organization has no real connection to any major Aikido organization that I am aware of. There's nothing wrong with that, of course.

Best,

Chris
Hi Chris,
Just to make this clear, when Aikido was first named as such (not by osensei), O`sensei, had to give it a name so that it would be accpeted as a traditional Budo by the Japaneses gouvernment, this is achieved through, Dai Nippon Butokukai.
The DNBK, authorizes teaching & certification in traditional Japanese arts including Kobudo, Aikido, Iaido, Kendo, Judo, and other tradional arts from Japan.

Head of DNBK is, His Royal Highness, Sosai, Higashi Fushimi, Jigo, the chief abbot of Shorenin Temple. He is a brother to late Empress Kotaigo of Emperor Hirohito of Japan. Vice Governor, Fuku Sosai is his son, Higashi Fushimi, Jiko, he serves as the Shinmon of the Shorenin Temple.

Many of today`s exponents of Aikido within Aikikai, are also members of DNBK, including Hioaki Izumi Sensei, 6th Dan Aikikai, Dan graded also in Kendo and Iaido.

Post WW2 or not, many people still in Japan today still consider DNBK recognition, as one of the highest authority on traditional Japanese martial Arts. And many practitioners from Differetn arts Are members.

In Budo

Andy B
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 08:34 AM   #211
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,951
United_States
Offline
Re: How to be non-competitive in a competitive world

Quote:
Andrew Bedford wrote: View Post
Hi Chris,
Just to make this clear, when Aikido was first named as such (not by osensei), O`sensei, had to give it a name so that it would be accpeted as a traditional Budo by the Japaneses gouvernment, this is achieved through, Dai Nippon Butokukai.
The DNBK, authorizes teaching & certification in traditional Japanese arts including Kobudo, Aikido, Iaido, Kendo, Judo, and other tradional arts from Japan.

Head of DNBK is, His Royal Highness, Sosai, Higashi Fushimi, Jigo, the chief abbot of Shorenin Temple. He is a brother to late Empress Kotaigo of Emperor Hirohito of Japan. Vice Governor, Fuku Sosai is his son, Higashi Fushimi, Jiko, he serves as the Shinmon of the Shorenin Temple.

Many of today`s exponents of Aikido within Aikikai, are also members of DNBK, including Hioaki Izumi Sensei, 6th Dan Aikikai, Dan graded also in Kendo and Iaido.

Post WW2 or not, many people still in Japan today still consider DNBK recognition, as one of the highest authority on traditional Japanese martial Arts. And many practitioners from Differetn arts Are members.

In Budo

Andy B
It's true that the Japanese government was using the DNBK to regulate all martial arts during the war, that's how the name "Aikido" came about.

However, that organization was dissolved, and the new one of the same name has only a slight connection to the pre-war organization and no governmental authority of any kind.

The Kendo, Judo, and Kyudo organizations after the war opposed the reestablishment of the DNBK name and today continue in their own separate organizations as well as a single group association, the Nippon Budokan, of which the Aikikai is a member (as well as the All Japan Judo, Kendo, Kyudo, Sumo, Shorinji-Kempo, Naginata, Karate and Jukendo federations).

There are two major Kobudo organizations in Japan, the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai and the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai. Most of the traditional martial arts belong to one or both of these groups - but not to the DNBK.

As I said before, there is no connection to any major Aikido organization. For example, the Japanese page lists branch dojo in many different arts, including Aikido - but for Aikido there is only a single dojo, in Hiroshima.

Sure, there are people from different arts as members, but as far as martial arts organizations in Japan it's fairly minor today (there's nothing wrong with that). I think that if you spoke to most Aikido practitioners in Japan they would be hard-pressed to even tell you whether or not the DNBK still exists.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 20 Peter Goldsbury Columns 22 10-20-2011 10:28 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 18 Peter Goldsbury Columns 187 09-08-2011 02:41 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 8 Peter Goldsbury Columns 60 11-24-2009 04:03 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 07-31-2009 11:19 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10 Peter Goldsbury Columns 200 02-04-2009 06:45 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate