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Old 02-29-2012, 12:40 PM   #51
Basia Halliop
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

I certainly wouldn't compare bees and mosquitos... bees are very rarely aggressive and most species don't attack unless attacked first. Africanized honey bees are an exception as they are terriritorial... but it's pretty easy to harmonize with almost any other bee. You just don't try to squash them, and usually that's all it takes to avoid any harm. They are happiest just left alone anyway.

Mosquitoes, on the other hand... I guess it depends where you are and how many there are and how aggressive they are. Some places I've been they are in swarms and are happy to bite even through jeans and sweatshirts, let alone any patch of exposed skin... lots you can do to reduce bites, in the worst cases rarely anything you can do to fully prevent them.

And I wouldn't call it harmonizing, either... either it's win/lose (they want your blood and are getting it, and you are getting an itchy painful bite, and if you're in a disease-ridden area, disease) or it's lose/lose (they want your blood and aren't getting it, and you are hiding indoors with all windows hermetically sealed on what would otherwise have been a nice summer evening) or it's lose/win (they are dead and you're not bitten), or lose/lose (they are dead but since you got them mid-bite you're still going to have a welt the next day).

I don't think it's possible to harmonize with a mosquito who wants to bite you. There is no win/win solution, someone is always going to lose.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:32 AM   #52
genin
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

I'd just let the mosquito bite me and do nothing. Then everybody would see that I wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone, not even a little mosquito. I wouldn't swat it, I'd let it sit there and suck me dry because I wouldn't even hurt a fly....or mosquito as it were.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:51 AM   #53
Mark Freeman
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
I'd just let the mosquito bite me and do nothing. Then everybody would see that I wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone, not even a little mosquito. I wouldn't swat it, I'd let it sit there and suck me dry because I wouldn't even hurt a fly....or mosquito as it were.
Hi Roger,

if you were in a malaria area, that might be a flawed strategy. On what level is the value of the life of a mozzie, greater than your own?

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:35 AM   #54
genin
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Roger,

if you were in a malaria area, that might be a flawed strategy. On what level is the value of the life of a mozzie, greater than your own?

regards,

Mark
I'm not in a malaria area. In no way is it an issue of its life or mine.

Last edited by genin : 03-06-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:22 AM   #55
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
I'd just let the mosquito bite me and do nothing. Then everybody would see that I wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone, not even a little mosquito. I wouldn't swat it, I'd let it sit there and suck me dry because I wouldn't even hurt a fly....or mosquito as it were.
Always? No exceptions?

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Old 03-06-2012, 12:53 PM   #56
Janet Rosen
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Um, here mosquitoes carry West Nile virus. Smack em dead. Actually, smack em dead anyway.

Janet Rosen
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:58 PM   #57
phitruong
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

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Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Um, here mosquitoes carry West Nile virus. Smack em dead. Actually, smack em dead anyway.
is de-nial a symptom of the West Nile virus?

* i know it was bad, so now i will smack myself in atonement *

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:35 PM   #58
LinTal
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Roger Flatley wrote: View Post
I'd just let the mosquito bite me and do nothing. Then everybody would see that I wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone, not even a little mosquito. I wouldn't swat it, I'd let it sit there and suck me dry because I wouldn't even hurt a fly....or mosquito as it were.
Ooh, that's a really interesting line of thought! Let's play.

1) The role of awareness and permission.
  • Someone's been skimming your bank account for the past year, without you knowing, to buy groceries. You lack knowledge, and therefore permission. Your personhood would be breached - rights, personal space, sense of property, etc.. The outcome would entail minimal damage to you.
  • You are asleep when someone breaks into your house with a gun and intent to cause as much harm as possible. Damage to your self and property is extremely likely, but you have situational awareness and this allows you to choose to sit by passively or not.

2) The application of this line of thought
  • Your friend reports that their bank account been skimmed for a year. What emotions do you feel?
  • You hear that a friend's been attacked by someone breaking into their house. What advice would you give?

3) A return to the original dilemma.
  • The bee stings you without your knowledge, and you feel a sudden flare of pain. The bee dies in the process of stinging you. How does this fit into the 'cause no harm' paradigm?
  • Something stings you as you are walking in the park, catching you by surprise. Your instinct is to swat at it to get rid of it, and you inadvertently kill it. How do you cope with the clash of philosophy and action? What is your line of thought?

You also bring in issues of self-awareness, self-belief and public perception, and how these match up, but let's leave that for later.

The world changes when you do.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:49 PM   #59
graham christian
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Roger,

if you were in a malaria area, that might be a flawed strategy. On what level is the value of the life of a mozzie, greater than your own?

regards,

Mark
Hi Mark.
How about this line of thought? Based on selflessness then how would you approach the problem. That doesn't mean there and then when surrounded by a swarm of mozzies but rather seeing the problem -ie: they bite and give malaria and then saying we have two choices:

1) We approach the solution from the view of self protection.
2) We approach the problem from the view of selflessness.

Regards.G.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:18 PM   #60
LinTal
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Hi Mark.

2) We approach the problem from the view of selflessness.

Regards.G.
Can you give us an example of this in application?

Eg, through the euphemism; how could you approach a malaria-ridden mosquito selflessly??

The world changes when you do.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:00 PM   #61
Walter Martindale
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

It's really hard to believe anyone would just ignore mosquitos biting them. Go to the Canadian prairies, Northern Ontario, or for that matter, anywhere up north - you'll be bitten on every square millimeter of exposed skin, (and not just by mozzies), and driven mad. Heck, they'll bite you through your clothing, too, if the weave isn't very tight. You need to spray DEET on your clothing, they bite through jeans.

We were at a fullbore rifle competition with the visiting British Rifle Team shooting at the range in Dundurn, Saskatchewan (I think it was 1993), and they couldn't believe how many mosquitos we put up with on a regular basis. Muskol (99% DEET in those days) kept them at bay, but you couldn't put it on your eyelids or forehead because the sweat would take it into your eyes. Guess where we were bitten. They were landing in the aperture of our front and rear sights, in between the glasses and the eyes (where you can't get at them), and when you get enough of them landing on your earmuffs, you can actually hear them... (well, not any more with the age-related hearing loss.. :-) ) Had to be the toughest competition to maintain concentration I've ever shot - everybody's scores on the 1000 yard range were terrible.

Incidentally folks, it's the female mozzie that bites and sucks blood for making eggs.

Mosquitos are a scourge. Sure, they may be part of nature, but they're not likely to go extinct before we do. Carry West Nile, Yellow Fever, Malaria, Equine Encephalitis, and probably a bunch of other bugs - yes, not all carry all of these, but they're a disease vector.
Kill the ones you can, bug-juice the ones you can't kill, keep them away with nets and screens, whatever.

Harmonize with a mosquito? Catch and crush them in mid-air before they land...
W
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #62
graham christian
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Selin Talay wrote: View Post
Can you give us an example of this in application?

Eg, through the euphemism; how could you approach a malaria-ridden mosquito selflessly??
O.K. Approaching the problem of a malaria-ridden mosquito area.

So from a selfless viewpoint that would rule out self protectionas the only thing and put as a prime mover the selfless act of protecting the mosquitos while at the same time solving the problem of people getting bitten.

So that's the first step, the first thing to come to terms with. Thus focus goes onto a solution which doesn't harm.

Now comes investigation and contemplation. For example, what exactly do they want? When do they want it, how often etc., etc.

Straight off the top of my head I could give thought to it this way: Basically they want some kind of prefered food. Why Humans? Because they are there. Hmmm. Is there a program, a set something or rule they follow without fail?

Thus for example people have already developed a technology which attracts mosquitos yet it is a machine that kills them. But we are progressing.

That means they do follow something automatically. I would have to know how that machine works to say but it may be a vibration it puts out or an aroma or something for it does work. Thus something could be developed that attracts them to certain areas or points and thus away from the area under question.

A simple example would be the 'tiger temple' where an old buddhist monk started taking in injured animals, starting with a tiger to make them better. Ended up with not only people bringing him some but animals actually coming out of the forest to him for help. Quite an amazing thing. So you now see monks there walking along with wild tigers, taking them for walks, playing with them etc.

But one thing I noticed is that they supply the tigers with food based on the fact that if they are not hungry or frightened they are completely safe. Thus by giving what they want and need they actually form a bond. I even saw tigers with little piglets running between them playing, like a little noahs ark.
Just an example of selflessness in action bringing about harmony.

Maybe not the same as mosquito problem but there again, maybe it's closer than we think. Maybe a well fed mosquito doesn't bite and they can be attracted to a point of feeding and they would get used to it and thus forget about people.

Maybe's but without that line of thinking only destructive and selfish solutions can ever be found.

That's my line of general reasoning on it.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:05 AM   #63
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
A simple example would be the 'tiger temple' where an old buddhist monk started taking in injured animals, starting with a tiger to make them better. Ended up with not only people bringing him some but animals actually coming out of the forest to him for help. Quite an amazing thing. So you now see monks there walking along with wild tigers, taking them for walks, playing with them etc.

But one thing I noticed is that they supply the tigers with food based on the fact that if they are not hungry or frightened they are completely safe. Thus by giving what they want and need they actually form a bond. I even saw tigers with little piglets running between them playing, like a little noahs ark.
Just an example of selflessness in action bringing about harmony.
Interesting.

What kind of food they gave the tigers? Vegan cat food?

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Old 03-07-2012, 07:31 AM   #64
Hanna B
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
It's really hard to believe anyone would just ignore mosquitos biting them.
No difficulty at all in believing that... My dad used to just let them bite since that's the easiest way.

Of course it all depends. If you're in one of those places where you can hardly open your mouth without a mosquito accidently flying in there, the strategy obviously doesn't work. Then you need bee-keeper eqipment. But I didn't see that the premises for the discussion is you live somewhere where the air is thick from mosquitos and they carry disease. As I already explained, ours don't.

So I could just let them bite but I swat they, usually. If they have already sucked lots of blod it's so messy, though. It's easier to let them finish and fly off. If they just started, in theory I want to let it finish since the bite will be less of a neusance (sp?) but most of the time I swat without thinking. It's just if they're already swollen from blod that I stop myself from swatting. If it's already red, it'll be finished in just a couple of seconds.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:46 AM   #65
phitruong
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Interesting.

What kind of food they gave the tigers? Vegan cat food?
nope, vegetarians.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:55 AM   #66
phitruong
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
A simple example would be the 'tiger temple' where an old buddhist monk started taking in injured animals, starting with a tiger to make them better. Ended up with not only people bringing him some but animals actually coming out of the forest to him for help. Quite an amazing thing. So you now see monks there walking along with wild tigers, taking them for walks, playing with them etc.

.
where is that? the only tigers that haven't been hunted down to the point of extinction would probably be around Angkor Wat. even there, they would be hunted down to make it safe for tourists.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:20 AM   #67
lbb
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

I'm just wondering if any of the "don't swat" people have ever had malaria, or know anyone who has. It's not exactly like having a head cold.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:58 AM   #68
graham christian
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
where is that? the only tigers that haven't been hunted down to the point of extinction would probably be around Angkor Wat. even there, they would be hunted down to make it safe for tourists.
This is where it is: http://youtu.be/WpRF0EGFAYA

This was a series of four programs I believe and that is part one.

I also think that it may end up, as with many things, unfortunately abandoned. Time will tell.

A story I have followed. As time went by more and more people wanted to visit to see it and the problems that will eventually lead to is a shame. For then public bodies etc. get involved and then health and safety rules get involved and add to that money gets involved and starts becoming the thing of import or rather the now needed thing which is lacking and becomes such.

I can predict that this will all lead to some incident somewhere along the line and then all the negative nay sayers will have it closed down. Many ways it could go wrong also through having the wrong people looking after the animals for example but hopefully my prediction will not be correct.

All started by a simple selfless thought.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:37 PM   #69
Walter Martindale
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
No difficulty at all in believing that... My dad used to just let them bite since that's the easiest way.

Of course it all depends. If you're in one of those places where you can hardly open your mouth without a mosquito accidently flying in there, the strategy obviously doesn't work. Then you need bee-keeper eqipment. But I didn't see that the premises for the discussion is you live somewhere where the air is thick from mosquitos and they carry disease. As I already explained, ours don't.

So I could just let them bite but I swat they, usually. If they have already sucked lots of blod it's so messy, though. It's easier to let them finish and fly off. If they just started, in theory I want to let it finish since the bite will be less of a neusance (sp?) but most of the time I swat without thinking. It's just if they're already swollen from blod that I stop myself from swatting. If it's already red, it'll be finished in just a couple of seconds.
When I lived in Vancouver, I think I saw 10 mosquitos or so in the 18 years I lived there. I've seen very few mosquitos in the parts of New Zealand I've lived, also (6 years) - however the sand flies... they bite and it hurts - every time. Just about everywhere else in Canada - as soon as the sun gets good and hot it's not so bad, but from just before sunset until after sunrise, you NEED something to keep the mosquitos off. Here in Ontario, some of them carry West Nile virus - Hmm, which one? Trouble is, by the time you realize you're being bitten, it's too late. Out in the prairies it's encephalitis - again, not every mosquito, but - which one? Do I let that one bite? or maybe that one? Nah. Bug spray, screen windows, tight weave clothes, and a liberal dose of swat the pest... Letting them finish their blood meal and fly away lets them make eggs and hundreds more mosquitos... A little red stuff will wash off.
W
W
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:18 PM   #70
Hanna B
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
When I lived in Vancouver, I think I saw 10 mosquitos or so in the 18 years I lived there. I've seen very few mosquitos in the parts of New Zealand I've lived, also (6 years) - however the sand flies... they bite and it hurts - every time. Just about everywhere else in Canada - as soon as the sun gets good and hot it's not so bad, but from just before sunset until after sunrise, you NEED something to keep the mosquitos off. Here in Ontario, some of them carry West Nile virus - Hmm, which one? Trouble is, by the time you realize you're being bitten, it's too late. Out in the prairies it's encephalitis - again, not every mosquito, but - which one? Do I let that one bite? or maybe that one? Nah. Bug spray, screen windows, tight weave clothes, and a liberal dose of swat the pest... Letting them finish their blood meal and fly away lets them make eggs and hundreds more mosquitos... A little red stuff will wash off.
W
W
Nothing new in that post, and nothing that seems to reply to what I wrote.

If you want info on Swedish mosquitos, google "Herräng Dance Camp". But I guess those are not discussed here... now I leave the thread to you folks from Northern America.

Last edited by Hanna B : 03-07-2012 at 02:18 PM. Reason: tpo
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:54 PM   #71
Basia Halliop
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
But I didn't see that the premises for the discussion is you live somewhere where the air is thick from mosquitos and they carry disease.
What is the premise, then?

If it's not specified that they're some particular kind of mosquitoes or some specific kind of environment, of course I'm going to assume they're the only kind of mosquitoes I'm familiar with, and act the way I've always experienced mosquitoes to act. That's what the word mosquito means to me...

Personally, for me, letting a mosquito bite me if I can help it is more torturous than I'm willing to go for the sake of 'harmony'. The itching drives me crazy and even if there was no risk of disease, I'd be willing to kill a few mosquitoes if it would lessen my itching. Of course preventative measures are better, but that's because if I just rely on slapping I will only get some of them, and others I'll get but it'll be too late to stop the itching.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:53 PM   #72
Tom Verhoeven
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Another thought for you. If its landed you wouldn't feel it till it bites therefor what did anyone learn from killing it. If that's their solution all the time then they will continue to get bitten.

A bit like 'if he hit me I'd bash him' mentality.

Saw a program on t.v. recently where they were using a machine that actually attracts mosquitos. It was used to do a mosquito count for forecasting. Not much different to a pollen count. That just shows you can lead something to somewhere.

Saw another one too where a couple are in the desert covered by bees. The man is actually enjoying reading a book at the same time, completely not bothered by it. His explanation? He said they just want the water from any sweat, just a drink, they don't want me. So in this case you can give them what they want and have no problem. Also shows resistance would get you stung more than likely.

The point of this story? You can prevent something wanting to attack you or you can give the something what it wants as it's of no harm to you or you can lead it elsewhere to what it's looking for.

I think those who take the mosquito analogy would action go for prevention don't you?

There's always a harmonious solution, it's whether we are wise enough to find it I say. Thus there is always Aikido.

Regards G.
Graham,
That is a good Aiki-example. Bees can actually smell someone's fear. And they do not like that smell. As a result they may decide to sting. If on the other hand you stay calm, continue to breath and relax the bees will not harm you.

In a recent interview a Buddhist monk tells about his experience with meditation in Thailand. During his stay at the monastery he was much bothered by mosquitos. He complaint about this and wondered if he could not use a repellant or a net to protect himself. His teacher refused this and explained to him that he had to except the musquitos as his teachers. After a while this monk was capable to ignore the mosquitos and get into a deep meditative state. In this meditative state his metabolism changed and as a result the mosquitos left him alone. The musquitos had truly taught him something!

Which reminded me of the famous anecdote of Musashi and Takuan Soho and their encounter with a snake. Same idea.

Kind regards,
Tom
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:18 PM   #73
graham christian
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

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Tom Verhoeven wrote: View Post
Graham,
That is a good Aiki-example. Bees can actually smell someone's fear. And they do not like that smell. As a result they may decide to sting. If on the other hand you stay calm, continue to breath and relax the bees will not harm you.

In a recent interview a Buddhist monk tells about his experience with meditation in Thailand. During his stay at the monastery he was much bothered by mosquitos. He complaint about this and wondered if he could not use a repellant or a net to protect himself. His teacher refused this and explained to him that he had to except the musquitos as his teachers. After a while this monk was capable to ignore the mosquitos and get into a deep meditative state. In this meditative state his metabolism changed and as a result the mosquitos left him alone. The musquitos had truly taught him something!

Which reminded me of the famous anecdote of Musashi and Takuan Soho and their encounter with a snake. Same idea.

Kind regards,
Tom
Thanks Tom.
If only more Aikido practioners understood this. Whenever anyone gets into trouble or fight I look for how they caused it.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:40 AM   #74
Lorien Lowe
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Mosquitoes, which want to suck my blood, inject itch-making saliva into me, and possibly infect me with something nasty, get killed. If there's one in my room at night, I can't sleep until it's dead.

Honeybees and bumblebees, on the other hand, have no interest in stinging me unless I provoke them, and more than once I have gently caught one inside and carried it out to be released. If one gently urges them to walk onto a hand, rather than grabbing them, they're perfectly content to be carried.
Hornets, I open the door and try to shoo them in that direction without getting near them; they're likely to sting out of pique.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:55 AM   #75
Hanna B
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Re: If a mosquito landed on your arm.

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
What is the premise, then?

If it's not specified that they're some particular kind of mosquitoes or some specific kind of environment, of course I'm going to assume they're the only kind of mosquitoes I'm familiar with, and act the way I've always experienced mosquitoes to act. That's what the word mosquito means to me...
Of course. I do the same.
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