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Old 02-15-2012, 01:24 PM   #51
"AikidoObsessed"
IP Hash: ae179115
Anonymous User
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
Knowing that your partner is doing something wrong is easy.
Knowing what he (or she) is doing wrong... that is something completely else. Learning to analyse this is a part of becoming a teacher. And the ability to perform this analysis often is the difference between a mediocre teacher and a really good one.

So I'm echoing Mary Malmros here. Don't tell him what to do. You are probably showing bad form in doing so. IF you've understood his problem you can help him without words. If you haven't, you can't - then leave it to the person teaching the class. Or silently by yourself practise your ability to analyse technical faults in others, then non-verbally guiding him into the correct form and see if it works.

If he's having problems doing the technique on you, he probably should ask the teacher to come over. If he doesn't call the teacher, for one reason or another, as Walter suggested you could do it for him.
Thank you, Hanna! I appreciate the advice. I don't really feel bad about trying to help him, ONLY because my sensei has told us to help each other and give feedback. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it. I'm going to have to try it non-verbally, though, as you suggested. Thanks!
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:29 PM   #52
"AikidoObsessed"
IP Hash: ae179115
Anonymous User
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
are you sure it's jealousy? what do you know about his life or anything about him other than his practice at the dojo? he could be bully or he could be not. sometimes, thoughts started out good in the head, by the time they reached the lips, things didn't sound the same. i remembered one time (ok, more than one) i was infatuated with a girl, the words came out of my lips just ended up completely wrong. so he doesn't practice as often, he could be working, school, and various other things that kept him from coming to practice. it could happen; thus my question, what do you know about him, of him?
read this story http://easternhealingarts.com/Articles/softanswer.html

in Sun Tzu's art of war, you must know yourself, and you must know others, before you can win. know either and you lose. knowing yourself, your true self, is the hardest, because you just met your worst enemy and your best of friend.
I don't know for sure, but this didn't start until I started climbing the ladder, and I haven't said anything mean to him. It was the only thing I could think of, but that doesn't make it right.

Thanks so much.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:32 PM   #53
"AikidoObsessed"
IP Hash: ae179115
Anonymous User
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Daniel James wrote: View Post
You know aikido and ukemi are two sides of the same coin, resisting to failure of nage's technique doesn't always make friends and can deprive you of an opportunity to learn the second half of the art in kata form. I'm not saying resisting isn't appropriate in training, but needs to be tempered so the the nage-uke dynamic is productive experience for both. YMMV and it perhaps it has.

FWIW when I encounter just an uke who resists to failure all the time, such that the practice becomes unproductive, I just become uke for the rest of the session and work on my ukemi instead, so at least I can learn something and the time isn't wasted.

best,
dan

PS Have you considered that you may appear to be the bully and this is a way for the 'protagonist' to deal with it?
Thanks for the help! You mean, I'm being the bully by working hard? I haven't said anything negative to him, so I don't know how I could be a bully.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #54
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 876
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

There are lots of ways in which a new student can be irritating, most of which have nothing to do with the student's rate of progress.

* Refusal/inability to give real attacks, thereby making real technique nearly impossible.
* Refusal/inability to maintain connection after the initial attack.
* Refusal/inability to acknowledge one's own vulnerability, which manifests as refusing to fall down even when one is clearly in danger.
* Lack of understanding of appropriate ukemi generally. For instance, sometimes disconnecting after the initial attack is the right thing to do, but most beginners aren't able to make that judgment accurately.

With more advanced students, all these flaws can be addressed through atemi and henka waza, but most dojos frown on hitting and/or confusing beginners.

There are also a number of behaviors that are irritating in general, and even more so when demonstrated by junior students.

* Unsolicited advice, especially when that advice doesn't have much to do with what the recipient perceives as the problem or when the advice is seen as obvious, patronizing, or flat-out wrong.
* Taking ukemi in a way that renders the demonstrated technique impossible, whether through lack of understanding or deliberate obstructiveness.
(When these two manifest at the same time, it's especially annoying.)
* Preference for talking rather than training.
* Inflated opinion of one's own skill level.

I don't know you. I don't know which of these you are doing, but I've seen enough beginners to be pretty sure that you are doing at least some of them. Perhaps you could ask this person why he finds you so irritating? Or some of your dojo mates?

Generally speaking, there's a lot to be learned from training with people who you don't particularly like.

Katherine
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:15 PM   #55
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,121
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Often HOW you say something is more important that WHAT you say. You are a relatively new student, a junior student, and you sound young from your writing. That could be part of the problem you are experiencing in trying to communicate with this student.

I noted a comment you made in a recent reply and found it telling. You wrote to the effect that your sensei says that it is them and not you. That strongly suggests that others have concerns about you as well. If they have voiced their concerns with your sensei, perhaps you are the burr under their saddle. Perhaps a look in the mirror may solve your problem. I've never experienced a problem that I wasn't an active participant in.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #56
"AikidoObsessed"
IP Hash: 6fbdc5cb
Anonymous User
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Often HOW you say something is more important that WHAT you say. You are a relatively new student, a junior student, and you sound young from your writing. That could be part of the problem you are experiencing in trying to communicate with this student.

I noted a comment you made in a recent reply and found it telling. You wrote to the effect that your sensei says that it is them and not you. That strongly suggests that others have concerns about you as well. If they have voiced their concerns with your sensei, perhaps you are the burr under their saddle. Perhaps a look in the mirror may solve your problem. I've never experienced a problem that I wasn't an active participant in.
Thank you for the advice. What I meant by that was, sensei has said it is their fault that they send me "out" instead of down; I have no control over it. It's been that way since I started. Sometimes I nearly run into the walls.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:59 PM   #57
"AikidoObsessed"
IP Hash: ae179115
Anonymous User
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
There are lots of ways in which a new student can be irritating, most of which have nothing to do with the student's rate of progress.

* Refusal/inability to give real attacks, thereby making real technique nearly impossible.
* Refusal/inability to maintain connection after the initial attack.
* Refusal/inability to acknowledge one's own vulnerability, which manifests as refusing to fall down even when one is clearly in danger.
* Lack of understanding of appropriate ukemi generally. For instance, sometimes disconnecting after the initial attack is the right thing to do, but most beginners aren't able to make that judgment accurately.

With more advanced students, all these flaws can be addressed through atemi and henka waza, but most dojos frown on hitting and/or confusing beginners.

There are also a number of behaviors that are irritating in general, and even more so when demonstrated by junior students.

* Unsolicited advice, especially when that advice doesn't have much to do with what the recipient perceives as the problem or when the advice is seen as obvious, patronizing, or flat-out wrong.
* Taking ukemi in a way that renders the demonstrated technique impossible, whether through lack of understanding or deliberate obstructiveness.
(When these two manifest at the same time, it's especially annoying.)
* Preference for talking rather than training.
* Inflated opinion of one's own skill level.

I don't know you. I don't know which of these you are doing, but I've seen enough beginners to be pretty sure that you are doing at least some of them. Perhaps you could ask this person why he finds you so irritating? Or some of your dojo mates?

Generally speaking, there's a lot to be learned from training with people who you don't particularly like.

Katherine
I agree; everyone you train with teaches you something new. Our dojo has a everyone-helps-everyone-else kind of policy, beginner or not. We all give each other feedback and advice. Thankfully, however, I just found out that this student is having trouble at college and is frustrated that he can't throw me. I'm just glad I know what's bothering him.

Thanks again.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:11 PM   #58
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,523
United_States
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
I agree; everyone you train with teaches you something new. Our dojo has a everyone-helps-everyone-else kind of policy, beginner or not. We all give each other feedback and advice. Thankfully, however, I just found out that this student is having trouble at college and is frustrated that he can't throw me. I'm just glad I know what's bothering him.

Thanks again.
Okay, let me be blunt and that that I think one thing you appear to be missing is that there are multiple reasons why someone might not be able to throw you. Many of which are really more about piss-poor ukemi by a newbie student that no one wants to hurt. I've had newer students that I didn't finish throws on simply because they were too open, too vulnerable, and too busy fighting off what they thought was going on. When in fact a quick atemi to the face and a rousing throw that they wouldn't be able to handle was what was really called for. Or any number of other things that they likely wouldn't have been able to handle. So you smile, try again, and leave it to sensei to fix. If sensei doesn't, however, keep in mind that in my experience eventually someone will deliver that lesson whether you're ready or not.

Best of luck to you.

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Old 02-16-2012, 01:51 AM   #59
Eva Antonia
Dojo: CERIA
Location: Brussels
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 208
Belgium
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Thank you for the advice. What I meant by that was, sensei has said it is their fault that they send me "out" instead of down; I have no control over it. It's been that way since I started. Sometimes I nearly run into the walls.
Hi,

I know this problem with centrifugal forces from my own experience. It occurred especially for irimi nage ura, where tori spins in a narrow circle and uke has to follow him in a larger circle, trying to get up and attack again in order to be taken down finally. I NEVER managed that as uke. I just shot off tangentially instead of following in the circle - until one day I was so fed up with always un-voluntarily destroying this technique that I asked the teacher where was the problem. He observed and then told me that I started following with the wrong foot, preventing thus myself to step into the circle. Ever since I understood that, irimi nage ura works, both when being uke and when being tori, because this explanation helped me also to understand sometimes the movements of my ukes.

When a technique "doesn't work", in many times there are errors on both sides.

Best regards,

Eva
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:43 AM   #60
Basia Halliop
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 711
Canada
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Thank you, Hanna! I appreciate the advice. I don't really feel bad about trying to help him, ONLY because my sensei has told us to help each other and give feedback. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it. I'm going to have to try it non-verbally, though, as you suggested. Thanks!
Even if it's basically encouraged in your dojo to give feedback you do still have to take it on a case-by-case basis. Feedback is meant to be helpful, after all, and if you can see from the way the person reacts that they aren't finding your feedback helpful and welcome, then I would say it's better either to try to give it differently, or simply just not to try to give feedback at that time with that person.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:16 AM   #61
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,743
United_States
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
We all give each other feedback and advice.

Thanks again.
the thing about feedback and advice is one is often welcome, the other, not so much.

feedback: hey, i felt you pushing me out, is that where you want me to go?
advice: hey, i think you should push down instead of out.

feedback: would you please lighten up your grip? i bruise easily and i hate to go to work with bruises on my arms
advice: you shouldn't grip so hard because it makes your techniques less effective.

so take my advice on feedback and your life would get easier

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:11 PM   #62
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: HELP! I'm being bullied in the dojo!

HELP! I'm being trolled on the web board!

Thanks again.
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