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Old 01-28-2012, 03:48 AM   #26
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Australia
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Re: Koshinage Ukemi

I like Ellis' thoughts on ukemi, and I would like to see him teach it some day. His experience with Chiba sensei reminds me of an experience my sensei had once where a shihan at honbu seriously damaged his elbow. Since then he has made a point of teaching his students good ukemi so that the same thing never happens to them.
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:33 PM   #27
Mario Tobias
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Re: Koshinage Ukemi

The problem I think is that (some) aikido dojos teach koshinage which will require high breakfalls, regardless if its soft or hard ukemi, yet they don't teach proper breakfalls. There is this disconnect. Some dojos frown upon hard breakfalls (saying something like make the mat your friend) yet it is one key skills for survival as an uke. I am used to hard breakfalls yet some of my seniors get angry when I do it. But my 22 years practice without injury from ukemi is I think enough track record that I maybe doing something right.
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:14 AM   #28
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
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Re: Koshinage Ukemi

Quote:
Mario Tobias wrote: View Post
The problem I think is that (some) aikido dojos teach koshinage which will require high breakfalls, regardless if its soft or hard ukemi, yet they don't teach proper breakfalls. There is this disconnect. Some dojos frown upon hard breakfalls (saying something like make the mat your friend) yet it is one key skills for survival as an uke. I am used to hard breakfalls yet some of my seniors get angry when I do it. But my 22 years practice without injury from ukemi is I think enough track record that I maybe doing something right.
It's more like an overemphasis on roles rather than a de-emphasis on breakfalls. I remember being shocked by backward roles in response to a direct irimi (shomen-ate) when I first trained in Aikido outside Japan albeit a different style. I could not help but follow that up with a few light taps to an exposed spine. Don't expose yourself and keep your feet between you and your attacker. Same with Koshinage - a roll can not be done when your only direction is down - why limit your training to it.

Rolls are a wonderful warm-up and definately have their place but one really should train in a variety of ukemi in a more balanced way.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-29-2012, 02:43 AM   #29
Mario Tobias
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Re: Koshi Nage - Open Stance or Feet Together

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
I encourage teaching koshinage ukemi shortly upon entry into aikido. In fact, I think it should be taught before learning rolling. Then, there's nothing scary about it.

Best
Ellis Amdur
I agree with Ellis on this statement. I learned high breakfalls simultaneously while learning rolling. I could do it competently in a few months time after starting aikido. It really depends on the dojo. There were like 30+ of us starting a few decades back and breakfalls were mandatory for 6th kyu. I've never heard of any injuries arising from this.

It's more the psychological fear of taking high ukemi that's more difficult to overcome, not the fear of risk of physical harm. Anyway, judo guys do it why not aikidoka?

Last edited by Mario Tobias : 01-29-2012 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 01-29-2012, 05:40 PM   #30
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Re: Koshinage Ukemi

Late to the party, but fwiw...I learned a little judo before beginning aikido, and for years I was more comfortable with breakfalls than rolls. I never ended up with bleeding scapula from breakfalls, and the carpet under that damned right front part of the DC dojo was thinner or separated or something and always cut my shoulder.

(And yes, Unpronounceable One, I know that doesn't happen when the roll is done right.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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