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Old 09-20-2002, 08:06 AM   #1
Bruce Baker
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Too much talk, not enough spirit

I had started another thread about clearing the mind, but it seems we have our share of disagreements even on this subject.

Is the spirit of our threadwriters such that we care too much, we desparately need our fellow Aikido practitioners to understand our experience of life and Aikido that we are willing to insult each other to get the point across?

I see the turmoil in some posts, as indeed, I have posted some of the turmoil that pushes me about in my own life. I know as human beings, our spirit of Aikido sometimes wavers in the shadows of this turmoil.

Should we have a forum of advice for helping each other with open advice?

Should we adopt a signal method that tells our fellow posters that they are treading on a sensitive area of emotional turmoil or in a personal area that is out of bounds?

Or ... are we merely not acting in the spirit of aikido by talking too much?
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Old 09-20-2002, 10:19 AM   #2
SeiserL
 
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Re: Too much talk, not enough spirit

Quote:
Bruce Baker wrote:
Or ... are we merely not acting in the spirit of aikido by talking too much?
Bruce my friend,

IMHO, we are all just practicing trying to get the Aikido spirit into our talk. We train our bodies at the Dojo, but this is where we train our minds and our speech. Be patient with us as Ukes in this new art.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-20-2002, 06:35 PM   #3
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Exploring the edges of our feelings and emotions allows us to experience the whole realm of what it is to be human.

We do need to remind ourselves and each other when our enemy the ego rears it's ugly head!

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Old 09-21-2002, 03:32 AM   #4
mike lee
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Cool the other shore

Why did the zen master slap the student?

(To get to the other side.)
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Old 09-21-2002, 06:59 AM   #5
Jim ashby
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Hi Kevin. I'm a little concerned that you consider your ego to be your enemy! It's just a part of who you are.

Have fun

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 09-21-2002, 03:38 PM   #6
Bruce Baker
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Very good responses, I am smiling through my fingers ... ouch! Gotta type slower.

Still, should we have another section that deals with this question, as if there aren't enough already?

Down and dirty, with helpful advice section?

It may be a moot point, as eventually, we all seem to get our point over, and those with true hearts apologize for even the slightest of bad behavior.
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Old 09-21-2002, 07:09 PM   #7
Suru
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Jim,

I agree with Kevin on the ego issue. It is an insidious enemy; it's hard to see and hard to kill. It protects us from each other's lower nature, so it won't die until our lower nature dies.

Drew
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Old 09-21-2002, 10:50 PM   #8
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, the ego is not evil. It is a useful tool or vehicle. I sometimes get tired of people thinking that its spiritual to judge and condemn the ego. Perhaps it would be more Aikido-ish to enter, blend, and find harmony with our learned ego identity and not take ourselves too seriously or too personally.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-22-2002, 08:28 PM   #9
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Ego, as you stated is what defines you as a person.

This creates the concept of separatness, or duality with the world.

Ego, is neither good nor bad (probably a poor choice of words on my part though in my previous post).

The problem we face with ego is that most of us (myself included) tend to not see how we are interdependent with everything in the world, ego really gets in the way of this.

IMHO, until we can understand our ego, control it, and abolish it, then we cannot truly become "one" with everything.

I do understand Lynn's perspective of blending with it, however, our differences I am sure are simply semantics....

... but from my perspective, ego gets in the way, and is the very thing that prevents you from blending with the universe, so IMHO, you cannot blend with it....but again we really are talking semantics, so it is not worth debating!

Talk to you later! right now I am going to go enjoy the illusion of myself and watch mindless TV!

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Old 09-23-2002, 03:37 AM   #10
mike lee
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clearity

East and West have different ideas about ego. In the West, it's an integral part of the study of the mind in human psychology. In the East, specifically in Zen Buddhism, the ego is the receptacle of all of the illusions we establish regarding this world and ourselves. They consider ego to be the king of illusions. If the ego can be vanquished, all other illusions will instantly vanish. This is the core of Zen Buddhism.

People are afraid to give up ego, because they believe that ego is who they are. In fact, it's an illusion of who they are.

Take our name for example. From they day we're born, we're called by our name. We identify with our name. We're also told we're a boy or girl, black, white, yellow, and a host of other things. These concepts build our world. But the reality is that all of these concepts are illusions -- words and ideas -- but they do not represent the true reality of who we really are.

According to the zen masters, eliminating the ego takes us to the point to where we can begin perceiving ourselves and the world as it really is.

Ultimately, there end up being more questions than answers because we and the universe are one big mystery.

Example: If the universe was originally void, where did all this material come from? How could something come from nothing? And why?

Last edited by mike lee : 09-23-2002 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 09-23-2002, 11:58 AM   #11
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, the ego is an illusion, so is the fantasy of who we think we will be without it, good or bad. Even as a simple receptical, it is. The acceptance of what is without acttachment for or against is also to core to be released from suffering. You cannot let go of what never was. The act of arguing against it is what give it power. It is the resistance that we train to blend with.

The void is not "nothing", it is "no thing" so it is all things. It is inclusive not exclusive.

Until again,

Lynn (an illusionary but usefule tag to let ou knwo who wrote this)

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-23-2002, 12:06 PM   #12
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Thanks Lynn and Mike, both you did a good job of summing up what I was trying to convey.

Really blows your mind if you think about it too much!

Kevin (not really sure who I am right now!)

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Old 09-23-2002, 12:30 PM   #13
Bruce Baker
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You know, I guess the ego can be a protective measure to drive one to hold on to convictions if it isn't aloud to run amuck.

But it is also an internal guide to connect you with the inner turmoil of your concious/subconscious mind, so indeed, we have the need for good to balance evil, and evil to make good's existence necessary.

I guess we should listen to what the ego has to say, but try not to let it rule our thoughts and actions.

(we could all be in trouble here. we have all had something to say on the subject. could it have been ego or spirit that drove us to respond?)
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Old 09-23-2002, 08:38 PM   #14
Kevin Leavitt
 
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without ego, we cannot exist. With ego we cannot be truly enlightened. Hence, once again the paradox of duality!

Will have to find a good koan on this one!

Kevin (to be or not to be, that is the question!)

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Old 09-23-2002, 09:49 PM   #15
SeiserL
 
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Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Will have to find a good koan on this one!
Show me your ego/mind directly so you can be freed from it.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-24-2002, 05:23 AM   #16
Jim ashby
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"If there's anything more important than my ego on this ship, I want it caught and shot now".

Quote from Zaphod Beeblebrox, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.

Have fun

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 09-24-2002, 07:16 AM   #17
HansJuergenJohn
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While practicing Aikido I have often met people who are talking too much. They do not have the right feeling. What feeling?

That we have much to do to expand our technique and Ki. If all of us Aikidokas would develop that in our real life, 100% of all of us would be the best practicioneers and discussions like this would be superfluous, but we do not. That's the truth (which you can not express to most of the "talkers" without getting some bad vibrations or the like).

So we have only a closely time slot to get out of our sloppy life, it's the Aikido training course.

But let us be moderate. If you see someone without the right spirit, try to give him some of yours!
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Old 09-24-2002, 07:28 AM   #18
mike lee
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Cool wake-up call

Like a swift kick?
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Old 09-24-2002, 10:36 AM   #19
Bruce Baker
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Carefull with that swift kick ... It is liable to come back to haunt you.

What goes around, comes around.
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Old 09-24-2002, 11:50 AM   #20
mike lee
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Cool coming around

Yah. It sure came around to that lady that beat her own kid for no apparent reason in a supermarket parking lot.
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Old 09-24-2002, 12:34 PM   #21
shihonage
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EgoBlahEnglightementBlahEasternblahPhilosophyBlahWesternblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblah...


(goes back to work)

Last edited by shihonage : 09-24-2002 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 09-24-2002, 10:22 PM   #22
PhilJ
 
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It all comes back to that silly yin-yang thingy. To know joy, you need to know sadness, etc. etc.

I think Bruce and Kevin hit it on the head -- you can't destroy ego. But we can temper it and, more importantly, learn how it affects us using brutal self-honesty. Mine's nasty, I think because of my upbringing. But I have certainly learned what It is capable of, and I can only control it, not deny it.

In the day, I was lead trumpet in college for three years, so I have a little background in ego myself. (A little band humor there for ya!)

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
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Old 09-25-2002, 04:12 AM   #23
Abasan
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'Quote from Zaphod Beeblebrox, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.' - jim ashby

You zanny nut you. Can't believe you could have quoted that off hand. Have a pan galactic gargle blaster on me!

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 09-25-2002, 11:49 AM   #24
Jim ashby
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It's just a bit sad that I can quote trivia but not any classics.Ah well.......

Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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