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Old 11-29-2011, 07:24 AM   #51
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Marc, I appreciate your invitation, but I'm a busy person for the moment. But !!! I can have few minutes to read your description here
Szczepan:

I love it when Nishio Sensei would talk about static practice as not being budo. Controlling your space is a critical component. When a person has entered this space they need to address something that is welcoming them to that space . Imaizumi Sensei speaks about this when he says that if you move properly, you do not need technique. Based upon how the person has responded to your "greeting" will provide you with information as to where to go from there. When there is a tie-up, like in wrestling, you still need to control your space through posture and stuff that you write off as esoteric. When the person attempts to apply force, the force is redirected in such a manner that it causes the attacker to become off-balanced, stuck, etc. and then you should have enough information to know where to go from there. How is that for a start?

Marc Abrams
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:01 PM   #52
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
but O sensei said there is no sen sen no sen in aikido....
Exactly, that's why I said 'majority of us'. Until you get the aikido spirit that is.

The aikido spirit cannot utilize sen sen no sen. It's acceptance is not waiting to respond either.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:16 PM   #53
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Ahmad Abas wrote: View Post

The aikido spirit cannot utilize sen sen no sen. It's acceptance is not waiting to respond either.
that made no sense!

i thought the aikido spirit is screaming your bloody head off, then drill the other bugger into the floor, take his money, then go and have a peace and quiet dinner with beer and/or wine and/or member of the opposite sex and/or same sex. oh wait! that's just the normal spirit, but i think aikido spirit should be the same.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:34 PM   #54
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Commitment into the attack

personally, i just move in and if the other person has not attack, i would initiate the attack. sort of hit first, hit later, and when the other bugger is down, hit some more. oh wait! this is aikido right? we are not suppose to attack first. damn! i knew it was a bad idea to take up aikido! i should have taken up yoga; at least i'd be wearing leotard (instead of this funny looking skirt) and be surrounded with nice looking women in leotard.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:16 AM   #55
Abasan
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Yeah well we can't all be Ghandi... Oh wait, I mean the other bald old man...

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:09 PM   #56
kewms
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
May be I didn't formulated question clear enough - how to deal with the attacks where attacker is committing only real minimum and if attack is not successful disengage immediately? I'd like to discuss very concrete training methods to face such situation.
Teach such attacks in the dojo. Expect students to attack in that way. Welcome and encourage new students with experience in other arts. Never, ever, chastise an uke who succeeds in hitting his partner, even if it was you who got hit.

Really it's that simple, and that difficult.

If someone trains for years and years against ridiculously overcommitted attacks, they will have a lot of trouble handling real attacks. If they see real attacks from day one, they will see such attacks as "normal."

No, of course this doesn't mean that uke should always be trying to take nage's head off. Karateka learn how to attack slowly, but correctly, so why can't we?

Katherine
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:25 AM   #57
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Teach such attacks in the dojo. Expect students to attack in that way.
Katherine
Hi Katherine,
Yes, I have been doing it last few years. I'm asking here for input from others, who want to share their experience.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:40 PM   #58
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Commitment into the attack

I really think this is THE most difficult aspect of ANY martial art. you have to assume away SO much of the reality when training with attacks. A lot gets lost in translation. I was running a class friday using four ounce gloves and teaching my guys how to deal with attacks from the guard (ground and pound). You have to agree to a level of force and the guy getting hit has to realize that the punches are being pulled.

Setting up the boundaries and conditions takes a great deal of experience and IMO it is an "Art" in and of itself to coach attacks and keep the conditions such that it achieves the desired results of the exercise/training.

If you overwhelm a new student with too much before they are mentally and physically ready and have developed some baseline skills to react...then you are really wasting your time.

Conversely if you don't train this at all and put on some good "combat pressure" and make it uncomfortable and ALIVE at some point...your students are never going really learn much IMO.

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Old 12-07-2011, 02:04 PM   #59
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Commitment into the attack

OK - I'll bite ... as I think I am of the same mind.

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
How you deal with such situation? I mean how to discover the moment he decides to attack? And how to extend this short time when he is well engaged? Any particular training methods?
Please refrain from this nonsense IP/IS discussion..
First, I guess most of my thoughts are here.

http://discovering-aikido.com/attack.htm

Scroll down just beyond half-way for some particular training methods labelled: Pratical Ideas 1, 2, 3, 4.

You might like them, you might hate them. I have had a lot of fun with some of these.

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Old 12-07-2011, 02:16 PM   #60
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
I think you misunderstood my question. I'd like you describe me how to make waza work with very small committed, but correct attacks. Good attacker will not commit too much, do you agree?
If you 'move' your intent towards him, either physically or mentally but prefereably both, he will respond. You skill is determined by how you deal with that response. All you can do in training is to set up situations that allow it to happen so you can train and develop it. That is what 'training' means, afterall.

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Old 12-08-2011, 12:23 PM   #61
Michael Varin
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
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Re: Commitment into the attack

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
First, I guess most of my thoughts are here.

http://discovering-aikido.com/attack.htm

Scroll down just beyond half-way for some particular training methods labelled: Pratical Ideas 1, 2, 3, 4.

You might like them, you might hate them. I have had a lot of fun with some of these.
Rupert,

Thank you for that link.

I enjoyed reading it.

I agree with much of what you wrote. I also learned a few things or reconsidered things that I "already knew". . . Which is always a good thing to do.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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