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Old 11-22-2011, 01:56 PM   #76
Thomas Campbell
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Anyone ever read of any single person who attained enlightenment in 5 years?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng

Huineng--Sixth Patriarch of Ch'an Buddhism.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:26 PM   #77
bob_stra
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post

Anyone ever read of any single person who attained enlightenment in 5 years?
"I nailed it in 10 minutes"

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Old 11-22-2011, 04:21 PM   #78
woudew
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Andy is one of Dan's evil minion ! They are all part of a grand conspiracy to take over the Aikido world through the re-injection of Aiki ! Beware! Dark days are upon us as Dan and his evil minion take over the world. HA HA HA HA....

Seriously folks,

Met Andy once. Gentle giant of a young man who is gifted in what he can do and in his ability to teach it.

Gobble, Gobble,

Marc Abrams
So Andy is the evil eye of sauron?

BTW
i am not worthy
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:23 PM   #79
Eric in Denver
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich wrote: View Post
I always imagined Ikkyu to be like this.
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:41 AM   #80
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Ahh, Demetrio. Ninja apologist....you disappoint me. What a cop out...
This is what the "Inquisition" says about this issue:

Quote:
Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.
Source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...stiana_en.html

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Old 11-24-2011, 08:37 AM   #81
Eric in Denver
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

[quote=Demetrio Cereijo;298012]This is what the "Inquisition" says about this issue:

Quote:

Quote:
Some physical exercises automatically produce a feeling of quiet and relaxation, pleasing sensations, perhaps even phenomena of light and of warmth, which resemble spiritual well-being. To take such feelings for the authentic consolations of the Holy Spirit would be a totally erroneous way of conceiving the spiritual life. Giving them a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience, when the moral condition of the person concerned does not correspond to such an experience, would represent a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.

Source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...stiana_en.html
In one of the newer John Stevens books, either "Heart of Aikido" or "Secret Teachings of Aikido", Ueshiba describes his earlier religious experiences as hallucinations he had along the way to enlightenment. Not sure of the quality of the translation, but if it is accurate, then it seems to me it would fit in with the above.
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:14 PM   #82
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
This is what the "Inquisition" says about this issue:

Source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...stiana_en.html
Well, not much to disagree with there. However, on hearing some of your comments it leaves me with one question:

When did you take your last confession? Ha, ha.

Regards.G.
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:18 PM   #83
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
When did you take your last confession? Ha, ha.
The important one is the last one.

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Old 11-25-2011, 06:54 AM   #84
sakumeikan
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
This is what the "Inquisition" says about this issue:

Source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...stiana_en.html
Demetrio,
The same effects are found by having a few glasses of whisky and smoking a fine cigar!!No need for years of meditation/ascetic practise. Cheers, Joe
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:56 AM   #85
graham christian
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
This is what the "Inquisition" says about this issue:

Source: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...stiana_en.html
It was stated that similar effects can been felt with alcohol.

Funny thing is I say to people who take drugs that everyone is looking to feel good, to feel better, to feel at peace and happy within themselves.

The truth of this is that everyone is thus trying to be spiritual. Thus drugs give that momentary spiritual feeling, that high. But alas it's via a physical means. Heavy training, alcohol, drugs, all physical means of trying to feel spiritually well in self.

Irresponsibility. Just be your spiritual self and depend on nothing else. Ha, ha.

Regards.G.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:16 AM   #86
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
It was stated that similar effects can been felt with alcohol.

Funny thing is I say to people who take drugs that everyone is looking to feel good, to feel better, to feel at peace and happy within themselves.

The truth of this is that everyone is thus trying to be spiritual. Thus drugs give that momentary spiritual feeling, that high. But alas it's via a physical means. Heavy training, alcohol, drugs, all physical means of trying to feel spiritually well in self.

Irresponsibility. Just be your spiritual self and depend on nothing else. Ha, ha.

Regards.G.
I agree everyone is looking for a pleasant feeling of well-being, and would guess it is at the root of all behavior. I come from a natural religion point of view in which the physical is spiritual. This isn't to say mind-affecting substances are always "spiritual activities," however, and I agree it's better to be able to induce these states without need of external catalysts. I will say, however, that I had a moment one time in my early 20's where I suddenly gained insight into how depressed I was and it came about from an "external catalyst." So, ultimately I think the most important part of an experience has to do with what you do with it afterward; how it continues to affect personal development...but again, to reinforce the ideal: I agree; depend on nothing apart from your own mind-body.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:19 PM   #87
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
So, ultimately I think the most important part of an experience has to do with what you do with it afterward; how it continues to affect personal development...
What Ueshiba did from 1925 onwards?

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Old 11-27-2011, 03:56 PM   #88
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
What Ueshiba did from 1925 onwards?
Roughly speaking, yes. By itself, no matter how profound the sensation, I suspect it's somewhat meaningless. I'm not sure exactly how it affected his behavior from then on, but per the wikipedia description at least, it seems to point to the idea that a central concept in Ueshiba Aikido is cultivation built around loving protection. Exactly what that means is open to interpretation of course...and I suspect cannot be pinned down to a discrete meaning, but:
Quote:
Budo is not the felling of an opponent by force; nor is it a tool to lead the world to destruction with arms. True Budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all beings in nature.
That's a lot of ground for True Budo to cover, but if we look at budo as a potency-based process of personal development and mindful integration with the world around us, then it seems to make a lot of sense.
First "build up" yourself so you can build up your household, neighborhood, nation, and the world. I don't suppose it's a strict hierarchy where one can never work on helping the world "improve" until they've improved themselves, but as a general rule of thumb I agree with the idea. I'm simply not in much of a position to help others until I've worked on myself to some useful degree.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 11-27-2011 at 04:01 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:06 PM   #89
DH
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
What Ueshiba did from 1925 onwards?
After about 1922 he began to be "known" for his martial abilities. This was after a lengthy experience with Takeda, where-n Takeda taught him aiki and he was given permission to teach, Aiki . He was actually having trouble handling people before then. Even though he was known for being very strong...it didn't seem to help him with his budo much. This was when Deguchi, who did not like Takeda none the less acknowledged the incredible aspects of this...aiki! So much so, that he suggested Takeda change the name of his art.

Ueshiba's ...er....enlightenment quickly followed, where curiously, he talked often about aiki. Where he started saying that aiki informed religion, where the word aiki...started to appear everywhere in his dialogue.....curiously, for some strange reason.
As we no know ( and there is more to come) over the following years, he was actively talking about all of the foundational work to internal power that apparently no one knew how to translate, for some strange reason. Things that were apparently peppered through out his lectures and in class;
Intent
Heaven/ earth/ man
Breath power training
Six direction awareness
Strength through opposing power
In yo ho
The mystery of aiki revealed in Dual spirals as an expression.
Even him bringing in Anatomy drawings to explain esoteric discussions of the Kojiki.
All to a dissinterested and unknowing audience who self admittedly didn't care.
You know....all the stuff that made it sound like he was on aikiweb 90 years later...arguing with those who were still, clearly doing something other than his art!
Sound familiar?
Dan

Last edited by DH : 11-27-2011 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:09 PM   #90
wxyzabc
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

[
Heaven/ earth/ man
Breath power training
Six direction awareness
Strength through opposing power
In yo ho
The mystery of aiki revealed in Dual spirals as an expression.
Even him bringing in Anatomy drawings to explain esoteric discussions of the Kojiki.
All to a dissinterested and unknowing audience who self admittedly didn't care.
You know....all the stuff that made it sound like he was on aikiweb 90 years later...arguing with those who were still, clearly doing something other than his art!
Sound familiar?
Dan[/quote]

Well to be fair, thats because it doesn't mean much to anyone that doesn't already have some understanding.....just words people try to understand on a superficial level
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:13 PM   #91
Ketsan
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
The mystery of aiki revealed in Dual spirals as an expression.
Even him bringing in Anatomy drawings to explain esoteric discussions of the Kojiki.
All to a dissinterested and unknowing audience who self admittedly didn't care.
You know....all the stuff that made it sound like he was on aikiweb 90 years later...arguing with those who were still, clearly doing something other than his art!
Sound familiar?
Dan
And of course you teach Aiki with a copy of Kojiki and anatomy drawings and expect an engaged audience?
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:49 AM   #92
sakumeikan
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
After about 1922 he began to be "known" for his martial abilities. This was after a lengthy experience with Takeda, where-n Takeda taught him aiki and he was given permission to teach, Aiki . He was actually having trouble handling people before then. Even though he was known for being very strong...it didn't seem to help him with his budo much. This was when Deguchi, who did not like Takeda none the less acknowledged the incredible aspects of this...aiki! So much so, that he suggested Takeda change the name of his art.

Ueshiba's ...er....enlightenment quickly followed, where curiously, he talked often about aiki. Where he started saying that aiki informed religion, where the word aiki...started to appear everywhere in his dialogue.....curiously, for some strange reason.
As we no know ( and there is more to come) over the following years, he was actively talking about all of the foundational work to internal power that apparently no one knew how to translate, for some strange reason. Things that were apparently peppered through out his lectures and in class;
Intent
Heaven/ earth/ man
Breath power training
Six direction awareness
Strength through opposing power
In yo ho
The mystery of aiki revealed in Dual spirals as an expression.
Even him bringing in Anatomy drawings to explain esoteric discussions of the Kojiki.
All to a dissinterested and unknowing audience who self admittedly didn't care.
You know....all the stuff that made it sound like he was on aikiweb 90 years later...arguing with those who were still, clearly doing something other than his art!
Sound familiar?
Dan
Dear Dan
I have been told by my own teacher that the acqusition of awareness involves acquisition of 10 directional eyes.The Kojiki is not quite a short novel. Can you give details of volume /pages you feel are relevant to this discussion?I am sure you would be anxious to let our readers know the basis of your assertions.May I also state that as yet you have not responded to my blog regrrding Birankai teachers you instruct?Cheers, Joe
Ps Feel free to express your understanding of yin yang/heaven /earth /man.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:48 AM   #93
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Even him bringing in Anatomy drawings to explain esoteric discussions of the Kojiki.
I'm imagining Ueshiba explaining Ame no Uzume dancing with Kojiki in one hand and "anatomy" drawings in the chalkboard...

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Old 11-28-2011, 04:37 PM   #94
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
...depend on nothing apart from your own mind-body.
Well, that and the universe around you, since it is the connection with that that we empower our resilience.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:20 PM   #95
Dan Richards
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

The world is now full of more enlightened people than ever before. People who are on the cutting edge of creation. Enlightenment needn't be treated like a big deal any longer. It' s something that's quite attainable - even becoming common.

Ueshiba was no more special than someone like Greg Noll. And in fact, it could be argued that Noll was more original, more creative, and played with much more power than Ueshiba. Surfers don't bow to pictures of Noll. And surfers don't put Noll up on some high unattainable mountain. And there are many many surfers that have taken it further than Noll ever dreamed. And they've done that by looking inward, and looking forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Noll

What Ueshiba did - and more - is accessible to anyone.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 06-02-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:47 PM   #96
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

In reagard to Eric's first question in the OP:

Do you think the idea of fudochi, applied to this situation, bridges the gap between these elements?

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:11 PM   #97
David Orange
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Re: Ueshiba's Golden Lights

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
The world is now full of more enlightened people than ever before. People who are on the cutting edge of creation. Enlightenment needn't be treated like a big deal any longer. It' s something that's quite attainable - even becoming common.

Ueshiba was no more special than someone like Greg Noll. And in fact, it could be argued that Noll was more original, more creative, and played with much more power than Ueshiba. Surfers don't bow to pictures of Noll. And surfers don't put Noll up on some high unattainable mountain. And there are many many surfers that have taken it further than Noll ever dreamed. And they've done that by looking inward, and looking forward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Noll

What Ueshiba did - and more - is accessible to anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gn-drk_zN0

He had his day...but he looks kind of old in the later day...was he still out riding those monsters at 60, 70 years old? Ueshiba was still doing his thing until 85, when he died.

So...we might say it's relative....

Noll still shapes boards, which has been his business for a long time, but I don't think he gets out (or got out) on those big waves in his older years.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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