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Old 11-07-2011, 10:49 PM   #101
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
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Re: More on High Break-falls

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I guess I am misunderstanding again. The ukemi that Hamatsu-san and Yamasaki-san are demonstrating in that video is the same ukemi that they do at the dojo. Are you saying that you would change the basics of your ukemi for a demonstration? I don't see why this would be necessary.
No. I'm saying the op was about the basics of ukemi not the form of ukemi. The main topic or point then went on to a basic called landing where you can't roll. So forget rolling or bouncing back up as that's not the topic.

The basic I was putting forward was relaxing into the ground. The very thing others were actually demanding I show them was not an example of someone doing this but an example of me doing this.

Thus in the video I finally provided under protest was an example of me being splattered. You see me flat out splatt. I'm saying that is a basic breakfall, very basic. If you apply it it looks like you should be hurt but you will not be.

It's not what generally springs to mind when the term breakfall is used, hence my pains to point out what I was talking about. A new look.

I did on one post say look at it like an aeroplane flight in four parts. 1) preparing to take off. 2) taking off. 3)the flight 4) the actual landing. Thus I said this thread was only about the landing bit not the form. Where body meets mat.

So it doesn't matter what part of body so much as what you do with that part of body and the impact.
(lets forget head here shall we)

Therefore if you relax the legs as the impact the mat and allow the energy to disperse it will and you will not get hurt legs. The same with going down flat on your back. These people generally find dangerous or painful or hurting but that's precisely my point. they needn't be.

Anyway, let's wrap this one up, enough already. Ha,ha.

Regards.G.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:53 AM   #102
Basia Halliop
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 711
Canada
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Re: More on High Break-falls

I think you have a point here.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the form of your landing doesn't matter or that any body part can hit the ground equally safely: from what I feel physically when I get thrown around, there are definitely better and worse positions to land in. But in my experience the right kind of relaxation and way of holding your body can go a huge way to make up for less-than-ideal landings. (and can turn a good landing into an even more pleasant one)

I definitely have learned to aim to land in certain ways, but I've noticed that as I get more practice and experience, a 'weird' or even fairly 'bad' landing rarely affects me as much as it did a few years ago (whether it's due to my own mistake or an unusual way of throwing or some combination). Sometimes it hurts but mildly, other times it even feels fine, when I wouldn't have thought it would.

I do think there's a limit to this, though. Some angles, especially with a lot of force, there's just not as much you can do with your body to make it less harmful. So for me, I'd never give up on good form either. Use all the tools you have and you're less likely to have all your tools fail you at the same time.

Last edited by Basia Halliop : 11-08-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:48 PM   #103
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
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Re: More on High Break-falls

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
I think you have a point here.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the form of your landing doesn't matter or that any body part can hit the ground equally safely: from what I feel physically when I get thrown around, there are definitely better and worse positions to land in. But in my experience the right kind of relaxation and way of holding your body can go a huge way to make up for less-than-ideal landings. (and can turn a good landing into an even more pleasant one)

I definitely have learned to aim to land in certain ways, but I've noticed that as I get more practice and experience, a 'weird' or even fairly 'bad' landing rarely affects me as much as it did a few years ago (whether it's due to my own mistake or an unusual way of throwing or some combination). Sometimes it hurts but mildly, other times it even feels fine, when I wouldn't have thought it would.

I do think there's a limit to this, though. Some angles, especially with a lot of force, there's just not as much you can do with your body to make it less harmful. So for me, I'd never give up on good form either. Use all the tools you have and you're less likely to have all your tools fail you at the same time.
Thank you, I agree with all you say there. Of course we can always improve.

Regards.G.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:44 PM   #104
robin_jet_alt
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 537
Australia
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Re: More on High Break-falls

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
I think you have a point here.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that the form of your landing doesn't matter or that any body part can hit the ground equally safely: from what I feel physically when I get thrown around, there are definitely better and worse positions to land in. But in my experience the right kind of relaxation and way of holding your body can go a huge way to make up for less-than-ideal landings. (and can turn a good landing into an even more pleasant one)

I definitely have learned to aim to land in certain ways, but I've noticed that as I get more practice and experience, a 'weird' or even fairly 'bad' landing rarely affects me as much as it did a few years ago (whether it's due to my own mistake or an unusual way of throwing or some combination). Sometimes it hurts but mildly, other times it even feels fine, when I wouldn't have thought it would.

I do think there's a limit to this, though. Some angles, especially with a lot of force, there's just not as much you can do with your body to make it less harmful. So for me, I'd never give up on good form either. Use all the tools you have and you're less likely to have all your tools fail you at the same time.
Now this is something that I completely agree with.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:30 AM   #105
Aikironin21
Dojo: Aikido of Solano
Location: Vacaville California
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 25
United_States
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Re: More on High Break-falls

I was lucky a couple of months ago, while cutting branches from a tree, I was up on the top of a ladder where I definitely should not have been with a chainsaw. The ladder collapsed under me, and fell from the eight foot ladder, straight down, no motion in any other direction than straight down. I had presence of mind to turn off the chainsaw, then I contracted my ab muscles and crunched up around the chainsaw as I descended. I was picturing me landing on broken bits of ladder and some of the branches I had cut. I tucked my chin, and as I felt near to the ground I flattened out my body to spread the impact force out as much as I could. I prayed no piece of ladder or branch was sticking up. I let out a yell as I impacted, and popped right back up to conduct an inventory on whether I had anything impaled inside me. I didn't. The only injury I got was a bone bruise on my elbow along with a gash from a piece of the ladder, and the weight of the chainsaw caused a sprain or some kind of strain in my shoulder. It still is tender today but I kept training in Aikido and Kaj so it hasn't had a good shot at really resting.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:29 AM   #106
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
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Re: More on High Break-falls

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
*disclaimer. I do not claim to be this good. In fact I make no claims about being good at all. If you look at my other videos and find some of me, then please refrain from negative comments. I am still learning and doing my best.
Hi Robin,

I watched the clip of you at the All Japan demo. I think your ukemi is better than anyone in any of Graham`s clips. Your technique is better too. Nice work!

Charles
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