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Old 11-09-2011, 11:12 AM   #76
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
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Re: Overriding uke's determinism

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
IMHO, the level of skill determines the level of determinism.

To "override" (enter, blend, and redirect) our own past programed determinism or the current situational determinism presented by the uke/attacker is a direct function of our level of skill (mindfulness and physical).

No digression. Only practical application.

Thoughts?
Ah Lynn, the way you use determinism there then I can't disagree with what you say.

So yes, from that view no digression.

Remember I qualified the meaning I was using and even emphasized it by calling it self-deteriminism.

I used the word to convey an attitude if you like. You see there is intention, there is desire, there is decision, but these are all inherent in determinism, So I'm talking about that fella is determined to hit, determined to hold and not let you go, determined to go through you. That's how I'm using the word.

Thus a person of very little skill technically can be extremely determined to knock your head off. In fact when he finds he can't, that when he tries he is the one who gets hit, only then does he realize that it alone don't work. He now get's determined to learn those skills that he doesn't currently possess.

So from that view his determinism has expanded into learning skill. So his own personal determination to improve is there, it can lessen at times, it can increase at times, but generally it's there all the time, the same, unless he gives up. So here we have skill increasing yet determinism the same, constant.

Regards.G.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:13 AM   #77
Gerardo Torres
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 186
United_States
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Re: Overriding uke's determinism

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
I have forgotten where this all started
That's a very good thing. Don't worry about it, we're fine.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:20 AM   #78
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
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Re: Overriding uke's determinism

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Here are a couple of things from my perspective:
1. Aiki is not morality. I think equating aiki with a [good] morality leads us to make erroneous judgements about what is and is not aikido. Saying something like "uke is not doing aikido because he was to cut off nage's head" presumes that the person cutting is bad. This presumption may be wrong.
2. Harmony is subjective. We use word like harmony in aikido with the presumption that harmony as we view it is the absolute harmony. This presumption may be wrong.

Uke and nage are transitive roles within an confrontation. The assignment of morality, harmony, justice, etc. to one role over the other will break down as soon as uke becomes nage, and nage becomes uke. In henka waza the roles of uke and nage may transition a number of times. Uke and nage both should be practicing aiki; either uke is better than nage or nage is better than uke.
Hi Jon. I'm glad you make those two points.

I'm glad because my view is totally the opposite. Now, seeing that view and no doubt how many view Aikido from that view then is highlights the basic difference of view between those who don't get where I'm coming from and me wondering where they are coming from.

So what can I say but well said.

Regards.G.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:34 AM   #79
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 920
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Re: Overriding uke's determinism

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
I'm glad because my view is totally the opposite. Now, seeing that view and no doubt how many view Aikido from that view then is highlights the basic difference of view between those who don't get where I'm coming from and me wondering where they are coming from.
I'd like to agree with you, really I would.

Unfortunately, the list of skilled aikidoka having less than exemplary personal character is too long. The amount of disharmony within the aikido world itself is too great.

Aikido may not be value-neutral -- I certainly think it's helped me be a better person -- but it is, at best, only one contributor to an individual's moral compass.

Katherine
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