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Old 10-29-2011, 04:07 AM   #126
niall
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
invading
spies
infiltrate
attack
cut
destroy
pick off
overrun
occupy
hold
flood
occupying
squeeze out
strike
14 reasons why the original post is nothing to do with aikido. 14 actions based on fear.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


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Old 10-29-2011, 05:52 AM   #127
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
Sorry Graham, seemingly you clearly didn't understand my op and that leads me to think you have no experience of what I'm describing. It's a caring, loving, aware and conscious feeling engagement that is present from the moment we lay eyes on each other. It's being your brother when you don't believe you have one. We can call it pre-emptive and infiltration using words of war or we can call it fully embracing using more acceptable language. Some times some words just hits the correct note inside and we can feel it in our engagement. If you loosen your judgment of what is the correct way of saying something, missing the heart of the matter, you might find a new experience waiting to reveal itself to you. If you like to express it differently please do so, and let's see if we are describing the same thing? Because so far I haven't heard you describe anything similar to what I've expressed in the op. To clarify, it is not literal. Do not invade another country please. Really I shouldn't have to clarify this. It's takes away all joy in sharing. Because you already know it's a metaphor for an interior experience between two aikidokas. But if you want to play the fool and pretend you know better the hole you're digging for your self just gets bigger and bigger.
Hi Torbjorn.
So you think it's a good metaphor for what you later describe. I think it isn't. There you are. No fool playing,

'Yoshi drew his sword and calmly waited as the enemy approached menacingly. Jiro was set on wiping this idiot off of the face of the earth and sword raised faced Yoshi, pervading him like a radar scanning for openings, focused, with dark piercing eyes that sent fear racing through most opponents as they cut into their souls like laser beams.

Yoshi calmly looked. His mind still like a cloudless, windless, summers day. There before him he saw this lost soul, a long lost friend, trying his best to be what he wasn't. Yoshi felt the scanning, the laser like negative Ki, the monster like clothing being worn by this unfortunate man. He saw through to the hidden goodness and love that this poor fool was running away from. He felt Jiros mind scanning, plotting, full of strategies and games of death. An inner warm smile filled his whole body as he joined and blended with it all, still unmoved, still peaceful, at one with all and eyes that flowed with compassion, shimmejutsu.

Jiro felt a nervousness and frustration and summoned all his willpower and rage and leapt in with his death cut and felt his own body split in half as he met his own death.

Jiro looked up from the floor, as Yoshi looked down at him smiling. Confused, sure he was dead yet he was still alive. Alive but thoroughly defeated. Ashamed. Yet somehow released from some evil grip.

Yoshi thanked him for the experience and went on his way. 'It's been a good day' he thought.

There, that's my take on it. Enjoy.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-29-2011, 08:52 AM   #128
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
To clarify, it is not literal. Do not invade another country please.
This is one of the (LOL) funniest sentences I've read in a long time given the subject matter: Aikido, AKA the Art of Peace.

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote:
Really I shouldn't have to clarify this. It's takes away all joy in sharing. Because you already know it's a metaphor for an interior experience between two aikidokas.
Agreed! That is why it is so funny! You did have to clarify, the thread development demanded it!

Anyway, I don't pretend to know much and that matches with reality, so I lurk as a reader more and don't post too often but when I see a gem like this...

Regards,
Anthony
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Old 10-29-2011, 10:50 AM   #129
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
14 reasons why the original post is nothing to do with aikido. 14 actions based on fear.
The more I think about the original post the more I'm appreciating it for what I see as being both provocative and subtle. My initial reaction was actually pretty similar because the language is couched in "bu." At first glance all I saw was militaristic principles of conflict...and frankly as a proud, peaceful, American, these days I'm particularly sick and tired of conflict and tough talking. But that's part of why I'm appreciating it more: just as Aikido is, at first glance, an art with weapons and fighting techniques, at a deeper level it's not about that much, if at all. We can cut things apart or we can cut them together, the difference seems to lay more in the intent than the "cut."

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-29-2011, 11:30 AM   #130
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
14 reasons why the original post is nothing to do with aikido. 14 actions based on fear:

invading like a fragrance
spies just like close friends
infiltrate your deepest fears
attack your pride
cut your ignorance
destroy arrogance
pick off excess
overrun stagnation
occupy empty space
hold it together
flood with love
occupying with meaning
squeeze out resentment
strike the bell
No more fear..

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Old 10-29-2011, 11:34 AM   #131
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Re: True Warfare

It's like pulling teeth isn't it? Or rolling a cart uphill. Or swimming up-streams.
Aiki is fun, remember?

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Old 10-29-2011, 11:45 AM   #132
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
It's like pulling teeth isn't it? Or rolling a cart uphill. Or swimming up-streams.
Aiki is fun, remember?
All of which can be very healthy.
Take care, sir!
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:29 PM   #133
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
The more I think about the original post the more I'm appreciating it for what I see as being both provocative and subtle. My initial reaction was actually pretty similar because the language is couched in "bu." At first glance all I saw was militaristic principles of conflict...and frankly as a proud, peaceful, American, these days I'm particularly sick and tired of conflict and tough talking. But that's part of why I'm appreciating it more: just as Aikido is, at first glance, an art with weapons and fighting techniques, at a deeper level it's not about that much, if at all.
Intellectual honesty is always appreciated and refreshing. I'm speaking in generalities to others that might have posted to this thread not to those that admit to themselves there is something they might not understand and reflect further. I didn't really "get" the original post either but (waiting, watching, and reserving judgement) I interpreted post #5 as a hint: it looked to me as the same formula/idea (as post #1) with different values plugged in for the variables. Others saw this, though it came from the same poster, as diametrically opposed: post 1 bad (for example see post 2), post 5 good (see post 6).

Anyway, to say what the post definitely was/is about is harder than ruling out what it was not - a literal call for/praise of invasion which seems on its face absurd, given the context.

I suppose this is the limitation of the medium we are trying to relate to strangers... text loses much of the context we have when interpreting natural languages and subtlety is easily overrun.

Take care,
Anthony
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:36 PM   #134
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
It's like pulling teeth isn't it? Or rolling a cart uphill. Or swimming up-streams.
Aiki is fun, remember?
More like the great escape. Yeah, that was fun.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:52 AM   #135
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
The more I think about the original post the more I'm appreciating it for what I see as being both provocative and subtle. My initial reaction was actually pretty similar because the language is couched in "bu." At first glance all I saw was militaristic principles of conflict...and frankly as a proud, peaceful, American, these days I'm particularly sick and tired of conflict and tough talking. But that's part of why I'm appreciating it more: just as Aikido is, at first glance, an art with weapons and fighting techniques, at a deeper level it's not about that much, if at all. We can cut things apart or we can cut them together, the difference seems to lay more in the intent than the "cut."
Interesting. I find if I read it and give it poetic licence then it's a nice poem. If I take it as given, a metaphor of true war then I see an attempt to apply Aikido principles to war. Mmmmmm.

Or is true war a metaphor also? Is there such a thing?

Also, does Aikido look as you describe at first glance?

Regards.G.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:43 PM   #136
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Interesting. I find if I read it and give it poetic licence then it's a nice poem. If I take it as given, a metaphor of true war then I see an attempt to apply Aikido principles to war. Mmmmmm.

Or is true war a metaphor also? Is there such a thing?

Also, does Aikido look as you describe at first glance?

Regards.G.
I think "true war" is a bit of a koan, not unlike "true aikido," or "true basket weaving." We might each have different ideas as to what constitutes the truest aspects of the thing, but it's too subjective to arrive at an objectively reliable idea. To some, true warfare is absolute destruction. To me it's utmost effort toward survival of life...something not very popular with people who are bent on enmity.
My view of Aikido is that is can be applied to anything, including things like war. I think of Mochizuki's remarks about artillary as an example. I don't think it's an ideal situation or application, but if the aim is to preserve life and, hypothetically speaking, it was essentially the only option, I see it as relevant. Then again, as I said, I think Aikido is universal in application, since I see it as an extention of kami no michi...not that I understand that properly.
Regarding first glances, I'm not entirely sure I understand your meaning, but I would say Aikido looks like many things to many people. I was speaking in general terms, but most people see a way of fighting when they see aikido methods. Is it the "real" Aikido? Probably not, but I would say "real" Aikido is something no one can actually comprehend: the concept(s) each of us holds in mind about it are always wanting somehow; none of us is exactly right, even if some of us might have a more developed understanding in specific regards. For what it's worth, my first impression of Aikido was that is was kinda like "Japanese Tai Chi."

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:56 PM   #137
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Thanks Matthew. A well thought out view if I may say so. Mine being different doesn't take away from following your reasoning.

I asked about first impressions of Aikido because I feel most (I may be wrong here) see it more as you described ie: like a japanese tai chi type of art. Even watching O'Sensei in action others have usually laughed and been amazed as it looks more like a person playing, having fun. Just something that took my attention, that's all.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:59 PM   #138
mathewjgano
 
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Thanks Matthew. A well thought out view if I may say so. Mine being different doesn't take away from following your reasoning.

I asked about first impressions of Aikido because I feel most (I may be wrong here) see it more as you described ie: like a japanese tai chi type of art. Even watching O'Sensei in action others have usually laughed and been amazed as it looks more like a person playing, having fun. Just something that took my attention, that's all.

Regards.G.
Thank you, Graham, I appreciate that! One of my favorite things about Aikido is that fun I see...that play. Somewhere I mentioned that I think life is so important you can't take it too seriously. I suppose the flip side of that is that life is so much fun we can't afford to be too silly (being raised on Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny, I love silly, and cherish light-hearted absurdity). What has caused me to bring Aikido so close to my personal is what I perceive to be this profound dichotomy exemplified by it. I feel lucky that the handful of people I've been fortunate enough to train with also exemplify this absolutely serious play; this absolutely playful seriousness...which at times simply appears either serious or playful, but when looked at in the whole context, they feed each other somehow...one creates space for the other...or something like that...
Indeed I am very greatful, despite my easily distracted personality, and I look forward to positive growth (in body; in mind; and to whatever degree it might exit, in spirit), which is, per my understanding of my meager studies, the essence of the way from which aiki is given birth.
And that is, per my minds eye, also True Warfare.
Coincidentally, my view regarding Tai Chi and Aikido have, like most things, both changed and remained the same.
Take care, sir!
Matt

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