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Old 10-24-2011, 09:27 PM   #76
mathewjgano
 
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
The fragrance of flowers invades your senses but we don't seem to mind. We wake up and it's a new dawn and we don't cry foul play. Peace is pro-active, like a fragrance can't but help to spread its nuance. There are no borders to uphold. No lines but what man has drawn. If its invades your privacy so be it. Love is a rule not an option. Therefore if you're aware of it or not, you'll have to submit and surrender. Love rules supreme and as such Aiki conquers. Under cover or in open daylight, you'll have no choice. Aiki warfare is peace in action. It's a joy to be invaded.
I like that!

Last edited by mathewjgano : 10-24-2011 at 09:30 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:30 AM   #77
phitruong
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
The fragrance of flowers invades your senses but we don't seem to mind. We wake up and it's a new dawn and we don't cry foul play. ............................................................ Aiki warfare is peace in action. It's a joy to be invaded.
if i got invaded early in the morning and if you didn't brought coffee, i would call that foul play. let me make this clear, morning -> coffee or prepare for some ass kicking warfare. there should be a Geneva convention on that: there should be no invasion of any kind, in the morning, without coffee. matter of fact, both side should sit down for coffee and donut/crone or whatever, and read the funnies in the paper and exchange morning pleasantry. after such, then invasion can begin, but not before then. not to mention, invasion should stop for lunch with jokes and banter exchange that starts with "yo mama ...." and of couse, invasion should halt for dinner where both sides would exchange recipes of MRE, follow dinner with some dancing and singing, then bed down for the night to get a good rest, in order to renew our vigor, for the next day invasion.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:27 AM   #78
MM
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
if i got invaded early in the morning and if you didn't brought coffee, i would call that foul play. let me make this clear, morning -> coffee or prepare for some ass kicking warfare. there should be a Geneva convention on that: there should be no invasion of any kind, in the morning, without coffee. matter of fact, both side should sit down for coffee and donut/crone or whatever, and read the funnies in the paper and exchange morning pleasantry. after such, then invasion can begin, but not before then. not to mention, invasion should stop for lunch with jokes and banter exchange that starts with "yo mama ...." and of couse, invasion should halt for dinner where both sides would exchange recipes of MRE, follow dinner with some dancing and singing, then bed down for the night to get a good rest, in order to renew our vigor, for the next day invasion.
In World War I, during the 1914 Christmas time frame, many units on both sides stopped fighting, came together, and celebrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

It was a time when the actions of men shone brighter than ever. Jumping to the present time, there are many people who would do similar things and call them "aikido" like. They point to doing something good, something worthwhile for their fellow man and call those actions "aikido".

If we look to Kisshomaru Ueshiba's changes in aikido, we can perhaps find some common ground to view those noted actions as "aikido". If we view them from Morihei Ueshiba's aikido, we can find no common ground. at all. There is no aiki, there is no aikido.

Those actions are religious or spiritual and in some manner founded by love. These actions are to be upheld and encouraged. From the changes Kisshomaru made, these actions can be viewed as ai(love) ki. Modern Aikido appealed to the masses because of these changes.

But make no mistake, these actions are not Morihei Ueshiba's aikido. No aiki, no aikido. No matter how much ai(love) ki you have, you will never have Morihei Ueshiba's aikido. You will have Modern Aikido, which is not something to be dismissed lightly, mind you. But that is not the same as the founder's aikido.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:33 AM   #79
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
The fragrance of flowers invades your senses but we don't seem to mind. We wake up and it's a new dawn and we don't cry foul play. Peace is pro-active, like a fragrance can't but help to spread its nuance. There are no borders to uphold. No lines but what man has drawn. If its invades your privacy so be it. Love is a rule not an option. Therefore if you're aware of it or not, you'll have to submit and surrender. Love rules supreme and as such Aiki conquers. Under cover or in open daylight, you'll have no choice. Aiki warfare is peace in action. It's a joy to be invaded.
Nice poetry. The word invade, given poetic license, all good. Outside of poetry I would use another word does doesn't imply force or violation. It's a joy to share this piece.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:36 AM   #80
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
In World War I, during the 1914 Christmas time frame, many units on both sides stopped fighting, came together, and celebrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

It was a time when the actions of men shone brighter than ever. Jumping to the present time, there are many people who would do similar things and call them "aikido" like. They point to doing something good, something worthwhile for their fellow man and call those actions "aikido".

If we look to Kisshomaru Ueshiba's changes in aikido, we can perhaps find some common ground to view those noted actions as "aikido". If we view them from Morihei Ueshiba's aikido, we can find no common ground. at all. There is no aiki, there is no aikido.

Those actions are religious or spiritual and in some manner founded by love. These actions are to be upheld and encouraged. From the changes Kisshomaru made, these actions can be viewed as ai(love) ki. Modern Aikido appealed to the masses because of these changes.

But make no mistake, these actions are not Morihei Ueshiba's aikido. No aiki, no aikido. No matter how much ai(love) ki you have, you will never have Morihei Ueshiba's aikido. You will have Modern Aikido, which is not something to be dismissed lightly, mind you. But that is not the same as the founder's aikido.
And maybe if you have his 'aiki' and don't have his ai ki then you will never have his Aikido.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:54 AM   #81
MM
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Re: True Warfare

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
And maybe if you have his 'aiki' and don't have his ai ki then you will never have his Aikido.

Regards.G.
No. That idea is incorrect. Morihei Ueshiba told his students that they did not have to follow in his exact spiritual foot steps but could find their own religious/spiritual way. His aiki completed religion. So, if you have his aiki, then you could have whatever religious/spiritual path you wanted and you would be doing his idea of aikido. But, you had to have both. Without aiki, no aikido, no matter how much ai (love) ki you had, no matter how much spirituality you had, no matter how religious you were. If you didn't understand in/yo, you would not be doing Morihei Ueshiba's aikido.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:18 AM   #82
Mark Freeman
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
In World War I, during the 1914 Christmas time frame, many units on both sides stopped fighting, came together, and celebrated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

It was a time when the actions of men shone brighter than ever. Jumping to the present time, there are many people who would do similar things and call them "aikido" like. They point to doing something good, something worthwhile for their fellow man and call those actions "aikido".
Hi Mark,

It was a time when the actions of 'some' men shone brighter than ever. The Allied and German soldiers that exchanged gifts, song, cigarettes and haircuts, for a short while, fully embraced their common humanity. It was soon put a stop to by the Generals on all sides. They didn't want that sort of behaviour to break out and spoil their 'well planned' (sic) conflict. It just doesn't do to have your cannon fodder thinking of the enemy as somehow the same as you, does it? What followed was almost 4 more years of the most appalling warfare that we have ever known. The Generals won and humanity lost.

I agree that some stretch the 'aikido' description of actions that are deemed to be 'good'. Just because something is good or right, doesn't make it aikido.

Whether you see aikido as ai-ki-do or aiki-do, and I don't see why they can't be held in the same palm. One may house a skill that the other lacks, the other may contain a philosophy that reaches more and is ultimately more beneficial to more people, and therefore to humanity in general.

Just some thoughts,

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:45 AM   #83
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Mark,

It was a time when the actions of 'some' men shone brighter than ever. The Allied and German soldiers that exchanged gifts, song, cigarettes and haircuts, for a short while, fully embraced their common humanity. It was soon put a stop to by the Generals on all sides. They didn't want that sort of behaviour to break out and spoil their 'well planned' (sic) conflict. It just doesn't do to have your cannon fodder thinking of the enemy as somehow the same as you, does it? What followed was almost 4 more years of the most appalling warfare that we have ever known. The Generals won and humanity lost.

I agree that some stretch the 'aikido' description of actions that are deemed to be 'good'. Just because something is good or right, doesn't make it aikido.

Whether you see aikido as ai-ki-do or aiki-do, and I don't see why they can't be held in the same palm. One may house a skill that the other lacks, the other may contain a philosophy that reaches more and is ultimately more beneficial to more people, and therefore to humanity in general.

Just some thoughts,

regards,

Mark
Mark:

I would say that the combination of both of those positions would be the ultimate achievement. Aikido is a martial art. It is the "gift" of aiki that can allow us to sustain that philosophy when attacked. Gold-leafed clowns who wax poetic about pretty philosophies, yet do not have the skills to remain alive to wax poetic when attacked just end up in Uncle Darwin's playground. The Aiki that O'Sensei represented enabled him to be able to wax poetic about what ever he wanted to while remaining safe.

Regards,

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:08 AM   #84
Mark Freeman
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Re: True Warfare

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Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Mark:

I would say that the combination of both of those positions would be the ultimate achievement. Aikido is a martial art. It is the "gift" of aiki that can allow us to sustain that philosophy when attacked. Gold-leafed clowns who wax poetic about pretty philosophies, yet do not have the skills to remain alive to wax poetic when attacked just end up in Uncle Darwin's playground. The Aiki that O'Sensei represented enabled him to be able to wax poetic about what ever he wanted to while remaining safe.

Regards,

Marc Abrams
Hi Marc,

clowns and evolutionary male relatives aside, I agree with your position.

The vast majority of aikidoka worldwide, however, do not have Ueshiba's aiki, some are working towards it the best they can, some may achieve it, many wont. However, most are able to grasp the philosophy behind the art. Which has to be positive. Many students of aikido (my own included) would probably not fare that well under combat conditions. That is not what they practice aikido for. Why do we teach aikido to children, to those not in physically good shape and to the 'older' student?

Aikido- for me at least - is not just a martial art.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:22 AM   #85
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Marc,

clowns and evolutionary male relatives aside, I agree with your position.

The vast majority of aikidoka worldwide, however, do not have Ueshiba's aiki, some are working towards it the best they can, some may achieve it, many wont. However, most are able to grasp the philosophy behind the art. Which has to be positive. Many students of aikido (my own included) would probably not fare that well under combat conditions. That is not what they practice aikido for. Why do we teach aikido to children, to those not in physically good shape and to the 'older' student?

Aikido- for me at least - is not just a martial art.

regards,

Mark
Mark:

I agree with you. That being said, we should strive to achieve aiki if we are after O'Sensei's Aikido. If we teach, we should strive to teach it as well. I teach the aiki exercises to children, teens, and adults (whatever is considered old?). I believe that the great transformational aspects of Aikido are greatly enhanced as we develop aiki. Striving for less is simply that.

Hope to see you in NY soon.

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:33 AM   #86
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
No. That idea is incorrect. Morihei Ueshiba told his students that they did not have to follow in his exact spiritual foot steps but could find their own religious/spiritual way. His aiki completed religion. So, if you have his aiki, then you could have whatever religious/spiritual path you wanted and you would be doing his idea of aikido. But, you had to have both. Without aiki, no aikido, no matter how much ai (love) ki you had, no matter how much spirituality you had, no matter how religious you were. If you didn't understand in/yo, you would not be doing Morihei Ueshiba's aikido.
He did indeed tell his students that. How you translate that is down to you. His Aiki contained what some are calling 'Aiki' but was much broader. Thus Aikido.

You have your view. Keep it, use it, progress with it as I do mine.

Have fun.G.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:44 AM   #87
Mark Freeman
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Mark:

I agree with you. That being said, we should strive to achieve aiki if we are after O'Sensei's Aikido. If we teach, we should strive to teach it as well. I teach the aiki exercises to children, teens, and adults (whatever is considered old?). I believe that the great transformational aspects of Aikido are greatly enhanced as we develop aiki. Striving for less is simply that.

Hope to see you in NY soon.

Marc Abrams
Hi Marc,

agreed again.

I haven't bought my ticket yet (I will be doing so in November). My target leaving date is for the first few days of May, hopefully it will be starting to warm up a bit by then, not sure I am ready for a New York winter!

I look forward to meeting and training with you.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:51 AM   #88
MM
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
He did indeed tell his students that. How you translate that is down to you. His Aiki contained what some are calling 'Aiki' but was much broader. Thus Aikido.

You have your view. Keep it, use it, progress with it as I do mine.

Have fun.G.
Please provide your references and research on how you come to the conclusion that "His Aiki contained what some are calling 'Aiki' but was much broader."

While everyone can have their own views, not all views are correct. I can have a view that the air we breathe is really a mercury gas mixed with gold flakes, but that doesn't make me right.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:04 PM   #89
graham christian
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Please provide your references and research on how you come to the conclusion that "His Aiki contained what some are calling 'Aiki' but was much broader."

While everyone can have their own views, not all views are correct. I can have a view that the air we breathe is really a mercury gas mixed with gold flakes, but that doesn't make me right.
I'd rather not on this thread for it detracts from the thread.

If I open up a thread where these things can be discussed feel free to join in. Problem is those types of threads tend to end up in 'true' warfare and being closed down.

Regards.G.
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Old 10-25-2011, 12:50 PM   #90
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Please provide your references and research on how you come to the conclusion that "His Aiki contained what some are calling 'Aiki' but was much broader."

While everyone can have their own views, not all views are correct. I can have a view that the air we breathe is really a mercury gas mixed with gold flakes, but that doesn't make me right.
Mark:

In my line of work, you learn that directly challenging the reality of a delusion does not get you very far. Feel free to extrapolate .

Regards,

Marc Abrams

ps- I have found that my kyrptonite shield protects me from the mercury gas so I can collect the gold flakes and sell them down the road at my favorite pawn shop.
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:29 PM   #91
gregstec
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Please provide your references and research on how you come to the conclusion that "His Aiki contained what some are calling 'Aiki' but was much broader."

While everyone can have their own views, not all views are correct. I can have a view that the air we breathe is really a mercury gas mixed with gold flakes, but that doesn't make me right.
That's because you live next to that chemical plant
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:01 PM   #92
torbjornsaw
 
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Jumping to the present time, there are many people who would do similar things and call them "aikido" like. They point to doing something good, something worthwhile for their fellow man and call those actions "aikido".

If we look to Kisshomaru Ueshiba's changes in aikido, we can perhaps find some common ground to view those noted actions as "aikido". If we view them from Morihei Ueshiba's aikido, we can find no common ground. at all. There is no aiki, there is no aikido.

Those actions are religious or spiritual and in some manner founded by love. These actions are to be upheld and encouraged. From the changes Kisshomaru made, these actions can be viewed as ai(love) ki. Modern Aikido appealed to the masses because of these changes.

But make no mistake, these actions are not Morihei Ueshiba's aikido. No aiki, no aikido. No matter how much ai(love) ki you have, you will never have Morihei Ueshiba's aikido. You will have Modern Aikido, which is not something to be dismissed lightly, mind you. But that is not the same as the founder's aikido.
Please do not mistake my use of Love of not containing Aiki. Real love is more than just good intentions as anyone who has tasted the spirit will clearly know. Religion is based on a spiritual truths. Some will understand it superficially not having had their own direct insight into the very subtle domains, while others have dipped deep and can speak with authority upon the matter. Its the same in Aikido, some do hardcore exterior "martial" aikido without its accompanying inner quality of sensitivity (they name it Real Aikido). Others who want to explore further, venture into the inner qualities through their daily practice.
I practiced Iwama aikido under Morihiro Saito sensei and can say with certainty that he understood the the blending, the aiki, the awase's inner sensitivity of non-violent engagement. I take it that he learned it from O Sensei. Alas, most Iwama practitioners today, as well as most aikikai people, continue to train "execution" aikido with "good intentions" added for good measure.

To me the OP is all about Aiki and we can physically train it on the mat. Then when we begin to feel it we start to comprehend why O Sensei would use words like love and non-violence and peace to describe his Aikido. It hasn't gone soft or modern. It's just that we begin to appreciate the inner engagement of the art without loosing touch with the basic form and structure of kihon.
Love then, is Aiki in action and very effective still.

Please do not read the poetic language to be a substitute for daily practice, which is the misogi O Sensei left us with.

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Old 10-25-2011, 08:17 PM   #93
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Re: True Warfare

Check this out,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_MuDtIUmBg
From my trip to Iwama just recently.

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Old 10-26-2011, 07:25 AM   #94
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
Please do not mistake my use of Love of not containing Aiki. Real love is more than just good intentions as anyone who has tasted the spirit will clearly know. Religion is based on a spiritual truths. Some will understand it superficially not having had their own direct insight into the very subtle domains, while others have dipped deep and can speak with authority upon the matter. Its the same in Aikido, some do hardcore exterior "martial" aikido without its accompanying inner quality of sensitivity (they name it Real Aikido). Others who want to explore further, venture into the inner qualities through their daily practice.
I practiced Iwama aikido under Morihiro Saito sensei and can say with certainty that he understood the the blending, the aiki, the awase's inner sensitivity of non-violent engagement. I take it that he learned it from O Sensei. Alas, most Iwama practitioners today, as well as most aikikai people, continue to train "execution" aikido with "good intentions" added for good measure.

To me the OP is all about Aiki and we can physically train it on the mat. Then when we begin to feel it we start to comprehend why O Sensei would use words like love and non-violence and peace to describe his Aikido. It hasn't gone soft or modern. It's just that we begin to appreciate the inner engagement of the art without loosing touch with the basic form and structure of kihon.
Love then, is Aiki in action and very effective still.

Please do not read the poetic language to be a substitute for daily practice, which is the misogi O Sensei left us with.
Bjorn:

I am not really sure what your understanding of Aiki is? Mark Murray makes very cogent points regarding many people's misunderstanding and misperceptions about what aiki really is. What you think is aiki, might not really be it. If that is the case, your foundations fall out from under you. Iwama style Aikido does not practice aiki, as described by Mark Murray, Dan Harden and others (at least I have yet to see any practitioners in that style demonstrate it). You might want to see if you can be squeezed in to the next seminar that Dan Harden teaches in England to see if what you think is your aiki, actually lives up to the stuff that people like O'Sensei had and could do.

The Aiki Expo's that Stanley Pranin set up years ago, opened the eyes of many of us in that what we thought we had, was not really it. Those experiences left many of us with two glaring realizations: 1) The major impediment to our really learning things is what we believe that we already know; 2) Practicing something one million times will not insure that we learn much of anything, unless we are actually practicing the right stuff- in order to do that, go back to point #1.

Having genuine aiki enabled O'Sensei and others to be able to focus on love. As to the rest of us, back to exploration, discovery and integration thanks to the guidance and instructions of those who actually have Aiki and can teach it.

Regards,

Marc Abrams
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:44 AM   #95
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Re: True Warfare

Thanks Marc, for the info.

Plenty yet to learn for sure, but at ease with my own direction. Maybe one day we get to exchange some ideas on the mat?

Suffice to say that if anyone understand the OP as their own experience in their own aikido, they know what I'm on about.

Aiki can look different from practitioner to practitioner. I'm sure I could learn from your friend but choose to pursue my own interest as that is what I find most interesting and satisfying. Endo sensei comes closest to the feeling I'm pursuing but is yet quiet different. It's very much still in the early discovery phases even though I've been at it since 1974. My metaphors describes well the feeling my aikido contain.

Maybe Marc, I can teach you something?

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Old 10-26-2011, 09:41 AM   #96
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: True Warfare

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My metaphors describes well the feeling my aikido contain.
I've noticed that.

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Old 10-26-2011, 09:43 AM   #97
Marc Abrams
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Torbjorn Saw wrote: View Post
Thanks Marc, for the info.

Plenty yet to learn for sure, but at ease with my own direction. Maybe one day we get to exchange some ideas on the mat?

Suffice to say that if anyone understand the OP as their own experience in their own aikido, they know what I'm on about.

Aiki can look different from practitioner to practitioner. I'm sure I could learn from your friend but choose to pursue my own interest as that is what I find most interesting and satisfying. Endo sensei comes closest to the feeling I'm pursuing but is yet quiet different. It's very much still in the early discovery phases even though I've been at it since 1974. My metaphors describes well the feeling my aikido contain.

Maybe Marc, I can teach you something?
We all can learn from everybody, including beginning students. That does not equate with aiki however. that is quite a particular and very well-defined area, despite the attempts by others to expand the definition beyond that with which O'Sensei had, displayed and talked about.

Regards,

marc abrams
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:03 AM   #98
jonreading
 
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Re: True Warfare

I still haven't quite figured out this thread, so I am going to simply address some points within the thread which I feel make a coherent point...

1. The old-school of thought here is in a fight, win immediately and decisively. I think this a is Daito Ryu point and I believe there is a quote from Takeda on this point. Beat your enemy's spirit before ever lifting your sword, blah, blah, blah. I think we are talking about a concept that implies you have defeated your partner at the point when you join (aiki).
2. The love stuff is something about which we can concern ourselves occurs after we have the connection part. I think the argument I consistently hear and see evidence of is that many of us are ignoring this order and skipping right into the love is all you need thing. As my math teacher used to say, reading the answers from the back of the book helps you find some solutions but eventually you get a problem that you can't cheat.
3. The duration in which we train aikido have no direct connection with our skill. Aikido is the only martial art of which I am aware where we promote by perseverance- "don't die and we'll promote you." I have heard senior after senior use this argument and I think "geez, this guy has been training x years and he can't even do y technique?" If I were a model railroader and you came to see my models and they sucked, what would you think if I told you I had been model railroading for 25 years?

These three points illustrate that our education process is flawed. I get upset because I need my seniors to know what is going on so I can learn from them and they can get everything from the deshi before they all pass on. I do not see that happening because too many students are being fed BS at a time when they are susceptible and not questioning the material. "I said this and one time I saw a video of sensei so I know what I am talking about." "I said this and I have been training for 20 years." I think many of these posts are trying to politely solicit some supporting evidence for posts.

Aikido is about facing confrontation. Somewhere we got this notion that we evade confrontation. Then we took out anything that could be ugly. Warfare is confrontation and it is ugly. So to some, their aikido cannot comprehend confrontation or ugliness. To others, the severity and resolution of committing to annihilate your partner is foreign. To yet others, the suddenness of absolute connection before your partner even touches your body is foreign. Be open about these lapses and justify why your aikido omits them, but don't pretend they don't exist in aikido. Or, if you advocate they do not exist, be prepared to step onto the mat with someone to share that conviction.

P.S. I wrote this post with more harsh language because some other posts have already addressed these issues in a more appropriate manner and were not met with a response. I respect good aikido and would be a fool to think any one person could have it all. I personally enjoy sharing experiences with peers about why their aikido feels different and how their convictions affect their aikido.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:40 AM   #99
mathewjgano
 
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Re: True Warfare

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
I still haven't quite figured out this thread, so I am going to simply address some points within the thread which I feel make a coherent point...

1. The old-school of thought here is in a fight, win immediately and decisively. I think this a is Daito Ryu point and I believe there is a quote from Takeda on this point. Beat your enemy's spirit before ever lifting your sword, blah, blah, blah. I think we are talking about a concept that implies you have defeated your partner at the point when you join (aiki).
2. The love stuff is something about which we can concern ourselves occurs after we have the connection part. I think the argument I consistently hear and see evidence of is that many of us are ignoring this order and skipping right into the love is all you need thing. As my math teacher used to say, reading the answers from the back of the book helps you find some solutions but eventually you get a problem that you can't cheat.
3. The duration in which we train aikido have no direct connection with our skill. Aikido is the only martial art of which I am aware where we promote by perseverance- "don't die and we'll promote you." I have heard senior after senior use this argument and I think "geez, this guy has been training x years and he can't even do y technique?" If I were a model railroader and you came to see my models and they sucked, what would you think if I told you I had been model railroading for 25 years?

These three points illustrate that our education process is flawed. I get upset because I need my seniors to know what is going on so I can learn from them and they can get everything from the deshi before they all pass on. I do not see that happening because too many students are being fed BS at a time when they are susceptible and not questioning the material. "I said this and one time I saw a video of sensei so I know what I am talking about." "I said this and I have been training for 20 years." I think many of these posts are trying to politely solicit some supporting evidence for posts.

Aikido is about facing confrontation. Somewhere we got this notion that we evade confrontation. Then we took out anything that could be ugly. Warfare is confrontation and it is ugly. So to some, their aikido cannot comprehend confrontation or ugliness. To others, the severity and resolution of committing to annihilate your partner is foreign. To yet others, the suddenness of absolute connection before your partner even touches your body is foreign. Be open about these lapses and justify why your aikido omits them, but don't pretend they don't exist in aikido. Or, if you advocate they do not exist, be prepared to step onto the mat with someone to share that conviction.

P.S. I wrote this post with more harsh language because some other posts have already addressed these issues in a more appropriate manner and were not met with a response. I respect good aikido and would be a fool to think any one person could have it all. I personally enjoy sharing experiences with peers about why their aikido feels different and how their convictions affect their aikido.
Nicely put. I think part of the problem, as usual, has to do with semantics. To the degree we have differing understandings (and we all do), we have different semantics to our words/concepts. I think this is at the heart of the doka referring to the inability to capture aiki with the brush/pen; where words fail to be adequate on their own, and where physical interaction becomes the crucial learning tool...and even that requires a degree of magnanimity on the part of the people involved to share all we have to share, never mind the humility to accept what the other is presenting and allow the other to process the information on their own time...as they will no matter what anyway.
In the loosest sense, if someone practices Aikido, and some given behavior stems from that practice, it's sometimes referred to as "aiki" in the sense that it's in some way aiki-like (e.g. I do this a lot: "everything" I do is "aiki" because it reflects my understanding of aiki, very incomplete though I know it is). So the sense develops that whatever I do is "aiki" (aiki-like in some way). Someone else comes along and considers aiki as a very discrete thing (i.e. aiki-like necessarily isn't aiki). Then comes the issues of ownership: how can one ask me to redefine my practice; to accept the notion some central concept is essentilly flawed when they have little to no exposure to it? It's mine and I know it's not perfect, and because I understand the incomplete nature of my own understanding, it's not for other people to tell me what to make of what is essentilly mine. I relate this to a disstinction between concept and reality. The concepts, based in personal semantics, are individual in nature. Whether we like it or not, they are personal; we cannot escape the personal nature of discussing concepts, particularly when they have to do with life and death issues as budo concepts are apt to do. I personally have very very little problem being told I'm wrong. My ignorance is central to my personal way of life and has been for the better part of my short 33 years. It's the safest bit of information I have (I trust in it more than anthing else). Still, I find I have to check myself on it....and it's from these ideas that I get one of my personal catch-phrases I'm most proud of: knowledge obfuscates as much as it reveals. Metacognitive practices are hard if not impossible to be perfected because we're too close to see ourselves from an objective viewpoint. It's kind of the root of the human condition, really...er...in my opinion.
One of the beautiful things of Aikido to my mind is the concept of musubi because it seems to imply an attempt at bridging this gap. The "au" and "n" (inspiration of "aun"kai, if I'm correct) guarding shrines reflects, I believe, this attempt at intuition of "true" understanding, of a "true" (instant with no lag) state of connection beween different people and things. It's a wordless understanding expressed in two sounds, which reflects someone starting to speak, and someone else instantly recognizing the meaning. Again, as I understand it...my study has been wanting for some time now, so I appologize if I'm just adding to the proverbial noise in the signal.
Part of what Jon is describing above I think of in terms of my Public Education training and is why I like talking to martial artists despite my lack of training: testing. You can test in a variety of ways, but the most useful in my opinion is the kind which ideally happens at every instant of the learning process. Truly, if you're testing this way you do not really need formal, standardized testing so much because it's built into the learning process. It's also what I really like about my personal experiences with learning Aikido. In the past I've referred to it as the ability to play with technique. It allows a degree of spontaneous bouncing back and forth of ideas, expressed through the actions we take, and as long as our truest goal is to learn, evenually the interaction will settle in that regard. The problem comes when we start wanting other things, like asserting the validity of our own understanding. The intent becomes less pure and splits, creating results that are centered around something other than mutual understanding.
And now having read all this I can't help but feel my words fall terribly short, like perhaps I'm focusing too much on my own understanding and as a result am probably missing out on some bigger picture. It is whatever it is, and here it is for review.
For whatever it's worth, this is my take on True Warfare.
Sincerely,
Matthew

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:26 PM   #100
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: True Warfare

I think the mention of Endo Shihan maybe distracted some people from the fact that this thread is in the "spiritual" section, not the technical one. Endo's basics are very different from Saito Shihan's and I think it would be a mistake (and also off topic) to make assumptions about Bjorn sensei's technical skills (including kokyu/IP) based on Endo Shihan's training methods.

Carl
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