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Old 09-20-2011, 11:32 AM   #51
cconstantine
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

A thought about your dan certificate: We don't know how/who/if your school is affiliated (and you don't have to tell us), but I assure you that whatever certificate you may get, there will be many places where it won't be formally recognized. So AT BEST it's of limited use, and you're balancing that ($400) against, well, a lot of possibly really negative outcomes.

Everything you've learned cannot be unlearned. So wherever you go, you have the really important part, (the knowledge and skills,) regardless of wether you end up with the irrelevant part (the piece of paper.)
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:41 AM   #52
lbb
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Hahaha, yes, those stupid kinds of excuses keep popping in my head.
I don't know why you're laughing. Michael isn't making jokes. He's talking about the exact things that abuse victims say to excuse the behavior of their abusers. I don't speak for Michael, but I'd bet you whatever you'd care to name that victims have made these kind of statements to him from hospital beds -- after their abusers put them there. Think about that. Really, really think about it.

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
The receptive teacher tells me to leave but also to try telling him, "I will not be spoken to like this" and walking away when he gets nasty.
I doubt this would have worked, had you tried it when the advice was given to you. But you didn't take that advice, so why are you falling back on it now? I don't think you've suddenly changed your mind and believe it will work. I think you're using this as an excuse for inaction.

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
I can't leave just yet. I'm waiting for my Dan certificate. Otherwise it's $400 down the drain, and I'm a college student, it's a lot for me.
You paid $400 for some kind of "get a shodan" program? That was a mistake. Your money is gone, and you have no way to force this guy to give you a shodan on any terms but his own. Don't compound your mistake now by throwing good money after bad -- and things worth more than money, too.

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
II don't think he'll give it to me if I leave. I think I can hold out for a bit of time that's left. We can just ignore each other for now, like we did for about a year some time ago, when I spent more time working (for money) for my receptive teacher as opposed to "helping out the dojo" and acted like I didn't care about him.
Think about what you just said. You're going to get a shodan...from a sensei that you ignore...and that's supposed to be worth something. Think about it! If you were putting up with the behavior of an obnoxious abuser in order to get a car, or a paycheck, or something like that, I might be able to understand it...but a shodan has no material value. None. It also has little or no value in terms of what it gets you, because you'll find that outside your own dojo, even in another aikido dojo, it probably won't buy you anything. The only value of a shodan, or any rank, is in what you did to get it, and what you became in the process. And if what you did was submit to an abuser and what you became is an apologist for said abuser, then that shodan is worth less than used buttwipe.

And lest you start telling yourself that I don't understand -- I do. I had "shodan tunnel vision" once upon a time. I got lucky. I dislocated my shoulder a week before my shodan test. While I was healing up, I got my head out of the tunnel enough to realize that while I could show up again and get my shodan...I didn't really want it. And this wasn't a situation like yours, just one in which the school and I had really gone in two different directions. I was no longer with the program, simply going through the motions, and my shodan wouldn't have had the value that I wanted it to have. So I walked away. If I had that shodan today, it would not enhance my life one bit, and what I have without it is much better.

There are always other dojos, better dojos. If there aren't any where you live, you may just have to wait for a few years until your situation changes. Or if it means that much, you may have to decide to change it sooner. If money is an issue, there may be a way -- you may get a reduced rate, or be able to do work around the dojo, or find a university club, or maybe give up your Friday evening pizza and beer. There are other, better, more worthy people to train with, and there are ways to do it.

If you are tempted to reply with any other "reasons" why you "can't" leave, my answer is as before. Stop making excuses for not changing your situation. Stop refusing to cut your losses.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:41 PM   #53
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Thumbs up Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I don't know why you're laughing. Michael isn't making jokes...

... But you didn't take that advice, so why are you falling back on it now? I don't think you've suddenly changed your mind and believe it will work. I think you're using this as an excuse for inaction...

..You paid $400 for some kind of "get a shodan" program? That was a mistake...
It was a bitter laugh, not an actual one.

I just recently got that advice from my teacher, and I haven't had a chance to use it. The attacks from Sensei stopped for a good year while we talked only when necessary. Recently, I made the mistake of showing my care for him again and fell into his trap. Then I messed up by criticizing his decision along with some other students. Got another awful lecture, while the other students simply got talked to in a normal tone of voice. This is why I phoned my receptive teacher and got this new piece of advice that I haven't tested.

I paid to test. It was a federation testing fee. I tested, got the rank, and am waiting for the Hombu certificate to arrive.

Meanwhile, I'll start checking out other dojos, I already emailed one of them about possible training. But I would like this topic deleted if possible. Some people might identify me. Thank you everyone who contributed. I really appreciate everyone's care and willingness to respond although I know that I'm really stubborn and hard to convince. I assure you not to worry, you guys helped me make the right decision.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:49 PM   #54
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
It was a bitter laugh, not an actual one.

I just recently got that advice from my teacher, and I haven't had a chance to use it. The attacks from Sensei stopped for a good year while we talked only when necessary. Recently, I made the mistake of showing my care for him again and fell into his trap. Then I messed up by criticizing his decision along with some other students. Got another awful lecture, while the other students simply got talked to in a normal tone of voice. This is why I phoned my receptive teacher and got this new piece of advice that I haven't tested.

I paid to test. It was a federation testing fee. I tested, got the rank, and am waiting for the Hombu certificate to arrive.

Meanwhile, I'll start checking out other dojos, I already emailed one of them about possible training. But I would like this topic deleted if possible. Some people might identify me. Thank you everyone who contributed. I really appreciate everyone's care and willingness to respond although I know that I'm really stubborn and hard to convince. I assure you not to worry, you guys helped me make the right decision.
Send a private mail to Jun Aikiyama and ask him to remove the thread. The sad part of deleting this thread is that what happened to you is likely to happen to his next victim. Silence only serves to reinforce and support this teacher's unacceptable behaviors.

Good Luck at your new dojo!

Marc Abrams
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:46 PM   #55
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Sadly, Mary M. is right. I've heard all those excuses from hospital beds and the emergency room. I've heard them in the home, with children present, and I've seen the result a few times at the autopsy. I've even been physically attacked by the reporting victim when trying to arrest the offender, and then heard more excuses. Those are the worst cases from a physical standpoint - beaten and broken spouses, significant others, and family members.

And as sadly, I've seen the results of psychological and sexual abuse as well and heard all those excuses. Bruises heal, but I doubt that psychological scars ever do.

As I said earlier, I don't know if either is the case here and certainly hope not. Talking to someone who cares, knows the party(ies) and is objective may be more valuable.

Since you wish the thread to be closed, I will say no more and continue to wish you well.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:02 PM   #56
robin_jet_alt
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Hahaha, yes, those stupid kinds of excuses keep popping in my head.

The receptive teacher tells me to leave but also to try telling him, "I will not be spoken to like this" and walking away when he gets nasty.

I can't leave just yet. I'm waiting for my Dan certificate. Otherwise it's $400 down the drain, and I'm a college student, it's a lot for me. I don't think he'll give it to me if I leave. I think I can hold out for a bit of time that's left. We can just ignore each other for now, like we did for about a year some time ago, when I spent more time working (for money) for my receptive teacher as opposed to "helping out the dojo" and acted like I didn't care about him.
Well, how long do you expect it to take for your certificate to get to you? I think it was only a couple of weeks between testing and getting my certificate. During that time, you could easily say you have the flu or something.

If you ask Jun to delete this thread, please print it out for your own reference first. Memory can play funny tricks on you, and you might want to remind yourself about everyone's advice at some point.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:44 PM   #57
Hanna B
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

I spent quite some time training in dojos where oh so many things made me unhappy (although the situation was not abusive, no comparison here). I stayed because I wanted the aikido they do there - no other style, no other teachers were of interest to me. In the end, actually right after my nidan test, I came to ask myself: OK, so I've become pretty good at this, at least of some aspects of the art. Was it worth it?

The moment I asked myself the question, it was obvious that it wasn't. So I left. It took me almost a year after that nidan test, but the decision was already made and I had started shopping around for other opportunities. Until you actually want them, you won't see the opportunities around.

I've learned some important lessons, and one of them is to choose places where I'm happy, where people around me interacts with me in ways I like, and avoid the opposite. I'm trying to use that in other parts of my life too. I've spent way too much time accepting and adapting things and situations that made me shrink rather than grow.

So I say good for you... good for you that you are making this decision. You won't regret it. Life is full of opportunities.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
And if you do leave...just go. Don't discuss, don't explain, don't return calls, don't make or respond to contact. Go and stay away.
That's the easiest way - and it's hard enough as it is, isn't it? so why choose more complicated ways. There is no need for you to explain to your sensei why you are leaving.

Here's a text by Rob Redmond, called How to quit a karate club. His context is karate but all the relevant parts of the text apply.
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:11 AM   #58
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Send a private mail to Jun Aikiyama and ask him to remove the thread.
Where is his email listed? Do I just go through the "contact us" message thing?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
...Silence only serves to reinforce and support this teacher's unacceptable behaviors...
His next victim won't listen anyway. I saw how his previous deshi suffered. For some reason I thought it won't happen to me, because he appears very nice and caring in the beginning. His deshi left. I took over. Although she comes back from time to time nowadays.

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
Talking to someone who cares, knows the party(ies) and is objective may be more valuable.
My receptive teacher met him and stayed with us at one of our camps to support me during my test and all... She didn't form a very good opinion of him, but perhaps that's because I poisoned her initial thoughts.

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
If you ask Jun to delete this thread, please print it out for your own reference first. Memory can play funny tricks on you, and you might want to remind yourself about everyone's advice at some point.
That's true. I will print this out. Good idea.

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote: View Post
...Until you actually want them, you won't see the opportunities around...
Yes, I've never wanted another teacher. I could only imagine myself being his student. Thank you for sharing your experience. I think, after watching some videos from another dojo, I've convinced myself that I like it better. I'm gonna check out their classes soon

Thanks everyone, again!
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:48 AM   #59
gregstec
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Where is his email listed? Do I just go through the "contact us" message thing?

His next victim won't listen anyway. I saw how his previous deshi suffered. For some reason I thought it won't happen to me, because he appears very nice and caring in the beginning. His deshi left. I took over. Although she comes back from time to time nowadays.

My receptive teacher met him and stayed with us at one of our camps to support me during my test and all... She didn't form a very good opinion of him, but perhaps that's because I poisoned her initial thoughts.

That's true. I will print this out. Good idea.

Yes, I've never wanted another teacher. I could only imagine myself being his student. Thank you for sharing your experience. I think, after watching some videos from another dojo, I've convinced myself that I like it better. I'm gonna check out their classes soon

Thanks everyone, again!
I gave you some very good advice in the the beginning of this thread based on my initial understanding of what was going - that advice remains the same. However, it has become evident that you have a much more serious problem and issue to deal with based on what has been divulged in subsequent posts in this thread.

You have been given advice from some professionals that have a lot of real life experience in abusive situations, and from my lay person's observation, you are also exhibiting classic behavior of denial as well as trying to find support for that denial by posting in this thread.

You absolutely MUST leave that relationship to start your healing - and yes, you need some healing since you have been groomed for so long, you need to be un-groomed so to speak. Just leaving and going to another dojo will eliminate the present problem, but unless you seek professional help in this area, you will be ripe for it to happen again in your future.

I hope the best for you, but you need to make the right decisions now to get your life back on a positive track.

Greg
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:07 AM   #60
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Where is his email listed? Do I just go through the "contact us" message thing?
Look up at the top right area and underneath your name, there will be a private message link. you can also use the "contact us".

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
His next victim won't listen anyway. I saw how his previous deshi suffered. For some reason I thought it won't happen to me, because he appears very nice and caring in the beginning. His deshi left. I took over. Although she comes back from time to time nowadays.
I am sure that this is what the previous deshi believed. You are now pointing out that he has a pattern of grooming young women as his "deshi." This is a very disturbing pattern. I am sure that his teacher, or shihan of that organization would not be happy to hear about this pattern (I hope so).

Your silence, like that of the previous deshi, serve only to support the continuance of his behaviors. Have you ever heard the expression "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" ?

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
My receptive teacher met him and stayed with us at one of our camps to support me during my test and all... She didn't form a very good opinion of him, but perhaps that's because I poisoned her initial thoughts.
Your receptive teacher's impressions were accurate and not poisoned. Your tendency toward coming to this person's "defense" only indicates how much psychological damage he has caused you.

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Yes, I've never wanted another teacher. I could only imagine myself being his student. Thank you for sharing your experience. I think, after watching some videos from another dojo, I've convinced myself that I like it better. I'm gonna check out their classes soon

Thanks everyone, again!
Your teacher preyed on your need for a father figure. Your idolization allowed you to endure things that were beyond the pale of appropriate. I would strongly suggest going to the school's counseling center to address this "father figure" issue in therapy. If it is not properly resolved, it might come back to haunt you later. A honest person makes a mistake and learns from it after acknowledging one's own role in the mistake. A fool does not acknowledge one's own role and walks "blindly" into a similar mistake. A masochist makes a career out of this type of self-destructive pattern. Your honesty is refreshing. Use it now to your benefit. Personal honesty can easily become a perishable commodity.

Good Luck,

Marc Abrams
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Old 09-21-2011, 10:35 AM   #61
kewms
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
My receptive teacher met him and stayed with us at one of our camps to support me during my test and all... She didn't form a very good opinion of him, but perhaps that's because I poisoned her initial thoughts.
When you're in a positive relationship, you won't "poison" other people's impressions of it.

Friends and teachers are great mirrors. If they tell you that someone (a teacher, but also a boyfriend or a business colleague) is bad news, they're usually reflecting back what you already know but don't want to admit to yourself. Listen to them.

All of that aside, I've also found that as I've gained more experience, I've become more and more discerning in my understanding of "good aikido" and "good dojos." Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that this was the right dojo for you six years ago, there's no shame in admitting that your needs and goals have changed and it's time to move on.

Katherine
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:54 AM   #62
worrier
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

I've never thought that being mean and yelling and all that was a good motivational technique. But that's probably because it never has and will never work for me personally. At one of the jobs I got, there was a woman who did my training and literally every single thing I did was wrong - she never yelled or anything, but made me feel so embarrassed and worthless, I quit after 3 days, it totally destroyed me. Yet I am able to put up with a lot of bullsh*t from people, but not those who actually get to me by making me feel useless and totally incompetent.
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Old 09-22-2011, 09:56 AM   #63
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
You absolutely MUST leave that relationship to start your healing - and yes, you need some healing since you have been groomed for so long, you need to be un-groomed so to speak. Just leaving and going to another dojo will eliminate the present problem, but unless you seek professional help in this area, you will be ripe for it to happen again in your future.
My school teacher should be able to help me with that. She got me out of the initial deep, black hole - I stopped helping Sensei with kids' classes and other things, and eventually came to see that our relationship was not healthy, nor normal.

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
...Your silence, like that of the previous deshi, serve only to support the continuance of his behaviors. Have you ever heard the expression "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" ?..
No one will believe us that it's that bad. The previous deshi was telling me about it, but once you're in, you're in and you're blind.

Quote:
Emily Kirsch wrote: View Post
...Yet I am able to put up with a lot of bullsh*t from people, but not those who actually get to me by making me feel useless and totally incompetent.
Yes, I can take criticism, sarcasm, and harshness from other people because I know they have good intentions. For some reason, it's only Sensei that gets to me.

Thanks everyone!

I sent the message about deleting these thread, so it should happen soon.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:00 AM   #64
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post

No one will believe us that it's that bad. The previous deshi was telling me about it, but once you're in, you're in and you're blind.
Once you are in, you are quickly blinded. Two previous deshi saying the same thing, with one warning the other about what would and did happen is VERY VERY DIFFERENT! This person's Shihan should be informed and be allowed the opportunity to begin a discussion with this instructor....... History tends to repeat itself, unless you and the other deshi have the courage to become part of the braking process.

Good Luck,

Marc Abrams
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:19 PM   #65
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
...This person's Shihan should be informed and be allowed the opportunity to begin a discussion with this instructor....... History tends to repeat itself, unless you and the other deshi have the courage to become part of the braking process.
Unfortunately, his Shihan has passed away recently. And that was the only person he would listen to...
His previous deshi is quite open about it with the other students. But he never acknowledges his mistakes and never listens to advice given by people that are younger than him. It absolutely pointless to argue with him or rationalize, or present a different point of view. I've come to believe that people don't change because someone told them to. They only change if they want to change, and this man is most resistant to change.
I don't know... I could write to the federation, but I don't want to be a bitch and cause problems for his dojo. "How people treat you is their karma, how you react is yours". Besides, who will they listen to? A college kid or an old, respectable Sensei?
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:56 PM   #66
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, his Shihan has passed away recently. And that was the only person he would listen to...
His previous deshi is quite open about it with the other students. But he never acknowledges his mistakes and never listens to advice given by people that are younger than him. It absolutely pointless to argue with him or rationalize, or present a different point of view. I've come to believe that people don't change because someone told them to. They only change if they want to change, and this man is most resistant to change.
I don't know... I could write to the federation, but I don't want to be a bitch and cause problems for his dojo. "How people treat you is their karma, how you react is yours". Besides, who will they listen to? A college kid or an old, respectable Sensei?
You might want to consider that this shihan would be the person most likely to back/protect him. The head of the federation would listen VERY CAREFULLY to you and the previous deshi describe the pattern that you two had been subjected to. There is a lot of information and concern in our community about teacher abuses lately. The timing could not be better to raise this issue with the federation. Saying that you would "be a bitch" or "cause problems" is simply part of the unhealthy consequences of what you went through. The previous deshi tried to warn you and that did not work. Maybe it is time that you and the previous deshi do something a little more assertive to stop this unhealthy pattern. I am sure that the next potential victim of his "mentoring" will thank you in advance.

Marc Abrams
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:46 PM   #67
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Quote:
Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Hello,

I've been practicing Aikido for 6 years, every day, at the same dojo. It has been my goal to become Sensei's uchideshi, however as the years went by I realized that he is quite difficult to deal with. For 4 years I helped him with kids' classes, dojo maintenance, website building, and even babysat his son. In other words, whatever he asked, I did because I respected him and wanted to learn from him. He'd reward me sometimes, by giving me free uniforms or weapons, or letting me attend a seminar for free. (I should mention that I started when I was 13 and now I am in college, thus the money for Aikido was always tight for me)
However, amidst these rewards, he would frequently yell at me, call me dumb, or an idiot, tell me that I should be ashamed of myself, things like that... Sometimes he scolded me in private, and sometimes in front of everyone. Overall, whenever I made a behavioral mistake and did not live up to his moral standards for me, he would make me feel guilty and worthless. He tells me that it's because he cares for me that he is expecting more out of me than out of any other student in the dojo. He tells me that I have to believe him, and never discuss his ill decisions with other students. Other people in the dojo verify that he is very controlling and often treats me like crap. No one else treats me in the way that he does.

Because I want to be serious in my training, I was wandering if this verbal abuse is of any good. It really got to me during my senior year of high school and if it weren't for my school teacher who saw me change from a confident person into some miserable heap and decided to help me. From her standpoint verbal abuse is not right and she thinks I should find a different dojo because it might end up causing problems in the future. (For example, girls who were abused by their coaches then ended up marrying older, abusive men because that's what they were used to). But, I've read a few things about uchideshi and I know they were mistreated.

My question is, does this kind of verbal and sometimes physical abuse lead to any character building? If I decide to stay with my current Sensei, is there any chance I can become a better individual or will it destroy me? I've read that students often become like their teachers. I don't want to have the same personality as my Sensei, but I do love his technique... On the other hand, I would love to improve my own personality, but I don't know if standing verbal abuse will help me achieve that goal or not.

Any advice?
Get a new teacher... It is entirely voluntary to put up with anything from a teacher.

I will say that a bit of this is cultural... There is a whole "nail that sticks up must be pounded down" thing that exists with many of (not all by any means) the Japanese teachers. One simply has to decide whether a line is crossed as to whether it has become abusive or not.

To my way of thinking, it's abuse when it damages your spirit. So, it is my opinion that the whole "getting pounded down" thing tends to pretty much stop when you stop caring. The teacher looks at the folks that let themselves be cowed by it and decides that they weren't worth investing in, he looks at the folks who got pissed off and left, and decides the same thing. He looks at the folks who can take it and don't change what they are doing and he decides that they are the ones who are tough enough to stick it out and he stops pulling all the BS.

So, two things... If any teacher crosses the line, whether he be Japanese or American, you need to confront him with it and see how he reacts or simply leave. As I said, it crosses the line when it damages your spirit. Only you know what the line is. I have seen many folks quit over the years and I am still here. The "line" for them was quite different than the line for me. I have never been more than a bit temporarily annoyed by any of the "nail pounding" and I don't spend one iota of my time worrying about it. So, clearly for me, it has never come very close to crossing that line.

I would say that my tolerance of such things is somewhat dependent on whether the teacher is Japanese or American. For many Japanese this whole pounding the "nail down that sticks up" is automatic. Enough so that when I meet Japanese teachers who don't act like that, I really appreciate them even more. I don't put up with much at all along these lines from American teachers. Other than in the Marine Corps and other military groups, it really isn't part of our culture. There are coaches who act that way and I wouldn't have ever let one of my kids train with one of them. People internalize this way of looking at things and the next thing you know, they are treating their kids like this or their spouses like this. I have much more of an expectation of positive attitude and positive feedback from the American teachers. While for many Japanese teachers some of this is simply built into the teacher student relationship, almost on an unconscious level, when an American teacher acts this way, it's usually just a power trip. I wouldn't give anyone that much power.

When the line that gets crossed is physical, that's also something you need to decide. Did you get scared? Did a technique hurt more than you wanted? Or did you get injured? The first two constitute hard training for many folks (although even that may cross the line for many people). But the last, if it happens with any frequency in a dojo, constitutes abuse. I wouldn't train with any teacher who acted that way.

In your own case, I would tell the teacher the next time he is being abusive that he needs to stop, he needs to treat your respectfully, period. If he pulls that crap that it's for your own good etc and it's because he cares for you, call him on it. He is perfectly capable of giving you feedback about what you need to change without being rude or demeaning. If he's not, you really need to get a new teacher, sooner rather than later. If he gets physically abusive after you say something, you walk out right then and there and don't go back.

That my take on it...
- George
- George

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:29 PM   #68
Mirubiri
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

You are writting here because you donīt feel right. Indeed, I believe that what you are really asking is if it worths the pain to continue learning like that. You donīt need any advice because you currently have your answer and you know it. What you donīt really understand is why you donīt feel right going ahead with that decision. The answer is easy; You are being manipulated since you were 13 years old and it is a natural feeling for you.

I'm sure that if you talk to your teacher like others have recommended you, your teacher will understand you... at least for some weeks or a couple of months and then all will return again.

If your decision is to continue studying under him, take that into account the next time you will be abused by that....#$%!
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:44 PM   #69
"aikidokaanonymno"
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Post Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Jun Akiyama said that he doesn't delete posts, so since it's still here, I'll share the news.

I quit. I signed up in a new dojo. I guess that as time passes I'll know for sure if this was a good decision or not. I feel free and happy and sad at the same time...

Thank you, everyone!
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:58 PM   #70
kewms
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Good for you!

Best of luck on the next part of your journey.

Katherine
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:06 AM   #71
Janet Rosen
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

You've taken an important step into adulthood worknight decision and action!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:23 AM   #72
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Good for you. Enjoy this part of your journey.

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Old 09-30-2011, 08:23 AM   #73
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Hi, I just got back on to the computer and had forgotten to sign off before my husband used it for some other programs, then turned off the computer. I noticed this thread is still current, so here's something I read years ago.

The title of the thread is verbal abuse, and here is a story about kids and spanking which although physical rather than verbal, seems to bring up a similar concept of "Why? For what purpose is the perpetrator (?) doing this?"

Spanking of kids has become illegal in many areas of the U.S. now but in a book Koichi Tohei Sensei wrote years ago, called Aikido in Daily Life back then.... that was a topic he mentioned. Unfortunately my copy is in family storage and other peoples stuff is packed in front.... But I'll do my best to recount it properly.

The concept may be helpful to anyone, although it referred to spanking, and kids.

Tohei Sensei asked if the father was spanking the kid to improve the kid. I think I remember the father admitting that was what his intention was for doing so.

But here's the fascinating part. Tohei Sensei didn't scold the father, he just asked a question. Instead of instigating the father's psychological defense mechanisms, he planted a thought and the father went home and thought about it. Evidently he figured out that spanking wasn't improving his kid's behavior after all.

Tohei Sensei reported the father never spanked the kid again.

A rather long tale, but the application here is that our anonymous lady aikidoka who has earned nidan and probably will one day get her certificate (or maybe request a duplicate? I don't know how that might work out?)

has decided for purposes of her own progress and improvement, to train at a dojo where she feels that she can. Good luck to you, anonymous lady aikidoka!
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:37 AM   #74
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

To round out the references, here is a story from Sensei Terry Dobson, co-author (I think Victor Miller was the other co-author) of a book that was originally titled "Giving in to Get Your Way".

The book is about daily life applications and includes uses of the concept of circle, square, triangle that has fascinated so many here on Aiki Web. However, there is another concept that plays a prominent part in the book, that of Robin Hood on the bridge. I forget whether the challenger was Friar Tuck or Little John, this book also is in family storage....

According to Terry, there are six ways of responding to a challenge and the first two are fight or flight. Then there are Parlay (negotiation) and Deception (trickery) and finally Aiki, where there is a solution that benefits both. I think I left one out, it might have been something like a delaying tactic....

But the one that came to mind here, along with something Terry said at a seminar relating to the book was, to be effective, if you are going to leave the scene of conflict, just depart. Just like that. To be effective, I'm sure he meant. And this is what the lady aikidoka has done. I'm adding this from Terry, because I just realized in a story I posted in my blog last week that happened years ago : leaving a possible confrontation over a table in a restaurant was probably an unconscious application of something learned earlier....

In a seminar taught by Terry. Both of these cases were non physical, verbal situations solved by a physical action. Leaving the scene of conflict.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:06 AM   #75
Abasan
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Re: verbal abuse from a teacher

Little john.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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