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Old 08-31-2011, 08:28 PM   #51
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
Ah, I was wondering what videos Dan was referring to. Now I know.

All I can say is that it is pretty gutsy to post videos of what you do on these forums, knowing that people are likely to rip into them. I wouldn't post any videos of myself on here.
Not always true Robin. If you notice, rarely is anyone bothered when they are talking about cooperative practice, means and goals. It's straight up and honest.
Rather, it is the people here, who talk about their martial effectiveness or internal skills with aiki and then you watch their videos, I honestly think that some people are delusional. It is important to watch them and then read their own opinions of themselves as being effective and powerful. As was discussed recently in another thread here (with other videos) all you have to do is watch the level of attacks and what happens next. Most often we are not alone when we sit at home and watch and go ..."What?"
Sometime's it's hard to offer any credibility to those offering discussion and talking points here about ki or aiki, and effective power with the level of competence displayed in some of the videos people keep putting up. It is stridently clear that their theories, and their imagined skills level do not do well under scrutiny. It is very damaging for the reputation of the arts for people to let these things go. Clarity and honest evaluation helps us all.
Oh well
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-31-2011 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:53 PM   #52
robin_jet_alt
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Hi Dan,

You had mentioned seeing some of Graham's videos specifically in another thread. This is why I mentioned you. I was very interested to see them and hadn't been able to find them on google.

All the best,

Robin
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:02 PM   #53
graham christian
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Ed Duffy wrote: View Post
I'm going to respectfully ask this again. What is with the hats anyway?

May God bless!

Ed
Hi Ed.
You respectfully ask so I shall respectfully answer.

http://youtu.be/TRGDkMqh0hI

In this video after abt 3 mins you will find your answer.

These originally were not teaching or demonstration videos but done for fun for ourselves. To understand this particular one it was yet another occasion at the end of class where I offered to wake up the person concerned Ki. It always does the trick.

Others have mentioned break-falls, or lack of them. I do teach break-falls but I also teach not to launch yourself into them. In fact I have that as the senior thing. I say flying break-falls are only for projections.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:13 PM   #54
robin_jet_alt
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Hi Graham,

I think the point people were making about break falls is not so much the force with which they are done, but the habit of landing on the arm or hand. This is fine as long as you are able to gently lower yourself to the ground, but if you are genuinely falling, this can lead to all sorts of messy injuries involving wrists, elbows and collarbones, so I would consider it a bad habit.

Robin
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:17 PM   #55
graham christian
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
I will say that having watched your video I can safely state that once seen the video will not be forgotten.
Cheers, Joe.
Mission accomplished.Ha,ha.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:21 PM   #56
graham christian
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Robin Boyd wrote: View Post
Hi Graham,

I think the point people were making about break falls is not so much the force with which they are done, but the habit of landing on the arm or hand. This is fine as long as you are able to gently lower yourself to the ground, but if you are genuinely falling, this can lead to all sorts of messy injuries involving wrists, elbows and collarbones, so I would consider it a bad habit.

Robin
I understand that Robin. I agree.

Regards.G.
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Old 09-01-2011, 03:01 AM   #57
ryback
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
I sure cannot feel by how it looks, but I don't see any attack, any unbalance, they are just walking, uke taking toris hand, do you think with that iriminage anybody will fall down?
Everything goes slowly...
Ok I'm opened minded, if Graham call it martial art...Tai Chi is also a martial art..
Absolutelly right! You cannot feel by how it looks, but any aikidoka with some experience, that has practiced with real attacks can see that nobody's actually attacking, nobody's breaking nobody's ballance, nobody's applying effective techniques in this video. And it's not only a matter of speed. This isn't aikido with no force. This is aikido with no aikido. Aikido is a non- resisting martial art, but a martial art nevertheless. They keep on redusing it to nothingness and then they are trying to find street effectiveness in Anderson Silva's U.F.C videos! Beats the hell out of me!!
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:33 AM   #58
Hellis
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Graham,
I will say that having watched your video I can safely state that once seen the video will not be forgotten.
Cheers, Joe.
Hi Joe

You have to watch the whole video to be in with a chance of winning the box set

Henry Ellis
Aikido without Ribbons
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:50 AM   #59
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
Quote:
Quote:Carina Reinhardt wrote:
I sure cannot feel by how it looks, but I don't see any attack, any unbalance, they are just walking, uke taking toris hand, do you think with that iriminage anybody will fall down?
Everything goes slowly...
Ok I'm opened minded, if Graham call it martial art...Tai Chi is also a martial art..
Absolutelly right! You cannot feel by how it looks, but any aikidoka with some experience, that has practiced with real attacks can see that nobody's actually attacking, nobody's breaking nobody's ballance, nobody's applying effective techniques in this video. And it's not only a matter of speed. This isn't aikido with no force. This is aikido with no aikido. Aikido is a non- resisting martial art, but a martial art nevertheless. They keep on redusing it to nothingness and then they are trying to find street effectiveness in Anderson Silva's U.F.C videos! Beats the hell out of me!!
I agree with the majority of those assessing these videos. There is no effective aikido in the videos and definitely no aiki to be seen.
Carina brought up Taiji and I think that is a good comparative example to use. Good Aikido people, like good taiji people, have for too long tolerated just anyone doing any manner of movement and allowed it to be called taiji or aikido. As a result. Taiji and aikido have become more or less the laughing stocks of the martial arts.

No one in their right minds would ever call the stuff that millions of these gentle people are doing- martial. But there is a more critical and underlying element at work here as well. None of these people in Taiji or aikido are doing aiki or Internal power either. And those are the very foundation of the art. So what are as former members who walked away and outsiders who are considering to join, left to say when the videos being produced and work being done by these ner do wells in dojos fail to deliver on either count; martial or IP/aiki? It would seem that instictually they recognize that something is amiss. All the while, the good work is being done, but with much less public exposure .

All in all, the tolerances granted via shear volume, the unwillingness to confront and be critical, has only done further damage to the reputation of these two arts. The next time you talk about the ever reducing numbers of people signing up due to lack of interest, or the laughter in martial art circles when these two arts are brought up (regarding effectiveness) I would suggest you ask yourself if this tolerance of nonsense done in the name of the art of Aikido or taij,i has helped these arts in any meaningful way. Increased popularity by ever reducing standards of excellence to the lowest common denominator was probably not the way to go.

Some senior teachers are taking back rank, or suspending it based on involvement and growth. Others are openly asking people to leave or telling them their ranks are frozen. I would suggest more of the same. Only those in the arts can repair the train wreck the arts have become. It is apainful process that begins with critical assessment. and selfless interest. Teachers need a clear model of excellence in front of them, and a lack of interest or value in requests to rank ner-do-wells and folks with good attendance.

Teachers as models
The first step -good teachers to model after- is the hardest to actually pull off. Good martial artists have always stood out from the budo wallpaper. The trouble we have now is that no one believes their own teacher was the wallpaper! I've lost track of the teachers who have told me how amazing their teachers were. Then you feel or see them and go ..."What?" This factor alone explains much of the state of affairs. If you got rid of about a million people teaching taiji, you would see an improvement in taiji in ten years. The same would happen with aikido. Of the thousands of videos out there, how many show a level of excellence in teaching aikido?
Just say'n
Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-01-2011 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:00 AM   #60
ronin67
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I agree with the majority of those assessing these videos. There is no effective aikido in the videos and definitely no aiki to be seen.
Dan
A very honest assessment. Also, I've never been to a Aikido dojo, where you have junior members practicing on their own, doing what ever on the side (I have this big urge every time I watch this video to want to jump on the side and start helping these guys). As far as the two aikidoka, it just looks like no extension of KI at all with effective waza. The akemi looks like he is almost afraid to fall and get hurt. It is funny, every time I practice Aikido, I'm always walking away with some type of bruise here or there. Not saying I'm all that, because I'm not.

Dojo discipline is also something stressed very much, at least in the KI Aikido dojo that I attend now (and to be honest every KI Aikido dojo I attended). Hats being worn in the dojo? That would never be acceptable in any KI Aikido Dojo I attended. If your into the long Bob Marley type hair that is fine, just tie it and let the bodies hit the floor (with KI and good waza). The Aikido has to be effective. The circular movement of the uke also looks dead. This is not a personal hit on the original poster (he is a very nice gentleman), but the "Hippie" Aikido just doesn't do it for me. It is missing the structure and discipline to me. I'm use to seeing people moving around with a sense of purpose and effective extension of KI, with good waza.

May God bless!

Ed

Last edited by ronin67 : 09-01-2011 at 09:07 AM.

"Aikido can never truly bring peace without the full understanding and application of KI ".
-Me
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:11 AM   #61
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Ed Duffy wrote: View Post
A very honest assessment. Also, I've never been to a Aikido dojo, where you have junior members practicing on their own, doing what ever on the side. As far as the two aikidoka, it just looks like no extension of KI at all with effective waza. The akemi looks like he is almost afraid to fall and get hurt. It is funny, every time I practice Aikido, I'm always walking away with some type of bruise here or there. Not saying I'm all that, because I'm not.

Dojo discipline is also something stressed very much, at least in the KI Aikido dojo that I attend now (and to be honest every KI Aikido dojo I attended). Hats being worn in the dojo? That would never be acceptable in any KI Aikido Dojo I attended. If your into the long Bob Marley type hair that is fine, just tie it and let the bodies hit the floor (with KI and good waza). The Aikido has to be effective. The circular movement of the uke also looks dead. This is not a personal hit on the original poster (he is a very nice gentleman), but the "Hippie" Aikido just doesn't do it for me. It is missing the structure and discipline to me. I'm use to seeing people moving around with a sense of purpose and effective extension of KI, with good waza.
May God bless!
Ed
I agree. It's bordering on the ridiculous that all of us keep being told we don't "understand" what we are seeing and we don't "get" aikido or how "effective" this stuff is....
It is noteworthy that there are no positive comments from anyone we would consider competent. It seems all the ki guys and all the English guys here walked away from this as well.
Dan
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:31 AM   #62
ronin67
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I agree. It's bordering on the ridiculous that all of us keep being told we don't "understand" what we are seeing and we don't "get" aikido or how "effective" this stuff is....
It is noteworthy that there are no positive comments from anyone we would consider competent. It seems all the ki guys and all the English guys here walked away from this as well.
Dan
Sorry, if I came across being harsh. But being a retired U.S. Army Military Policeman, it just doesn't look like anything I have encountered as a shred bit useful that would help me apprehend a belligerent/combative subject. I'm all into the harmony aspect of Aikido, but it has to work when applied. I took up Aikido in the first place out of job need. It is very important as a law enforcement officer to have a good background in unarmed self-defense. Aikido, seemed to be the best choice for me (other then the fact that sometimes as a policeman you have to be on the offensive when apprehending a subject).

If you are trying to hurt me or trying to hurt innocent people, I don't have a issue with getting that balance of nature back by causing you pain as the aggressor. To me you have lost your sense of responsibility as a fellow human being by ignoring the harmony of others. So myself introducing you to a solid object to bring back reality of this needed respect for others, doesn't bother me in the least. However, I will pray for your healing after the fact.

May God bless!

Ed

"Aikido can never truly bring peace without the full understanding and application of KI ".
-Me
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:52 AM   #63
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Ed Duffy wrote: View Post
Sorry, if I came across being harsh.
.....So introducing you to a solid object to bring back reality of this needed respect for others, doesn't bother me in the least. However, I will pray for your healing after the fact.
May God bless!
Ed
I liked that comment Ed. There are many reasons I respect Ueshiba-as Ellis noted in his book- and first and foremost was this model.
I think confusion enters into the picture due to the lack of good models as I previously mentioned. Just as most people still think of their dads strength or power as daunting-due to them growing up admiring their dad- they still think of their teachers that way. So those who were indeed just the wallpaper of the budo world left a lack luster heritage. Love is indeed many times blind. Critical thinking and dispassionate review is the best way to go.
There is really no way to know if your aiki is truly worthwhile if all you do is play with your own group. Yet...what do we see the majority of people doing? Most of these people we see in the videos would all but completely fall apart if they ever stepped on the mat with people with serious aiki skills, much less serious fighting skills and aiki. So they avoid being exposed. Others confront, self-examine and grow.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-01-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:02 AM   #64
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I agree. It's bordering on the ridiculous that all of us keep being told we don't "understand" what we are seeing and we don't "get" aikido or how "effective" this stuff is....
It is noteworthy that there are no positive comments from anyone we would consider competent. It seems all the ki guys and all the English guys here walked away from this as well.
Dan
Who do you consider competent?
Who is your "we"?

Why do you continue to criticize something you don't understand?

I hear Graham say over and over that those videos are not what he does for technique...they are videos of some stuff he was working on after class.

Jun asked us to be respectful of others.

Making fun of Graham and any one else who doesn't do it your way or Henry's way is not respectful.

Dan, you don't train in Aikido. Can you consider that you might not understand what Graham is talking about because you have not put as much time on an Aikido mat as he has?

I am sure you have a good understanding of what you do.

Saying things like "we get and you don't" is a form of bullying.

Forums are for an exchange of ideas.

What you do...what Mike does ...what Henry Ellis does...What George does...What Mark (both Marks) do...what Graham does...what we do...are all different...there are many starfish on the shore...all are beautiful.

Yours may be the strongest and the best and the most effective in your eyes.
There is still room for diversity...that is what make life wonderful.
Thanks for listening.

Mary
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:08 AM   #65
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Who do you consider competent?
Who is your "we"?
Why do you continue to criticize something you don't understand?
I hear Graham say over and over that those videos are not what he does for technique...they are videos of some stuff he was working on after class.
Jun asked us to be respectful of others.
Making fun of Graham and any one else who doesn't do it your way or Henry's way is not respectful.
Dan, you don't train in Aikido. Can you consider that you might not understand what Graham is talking about because you have not put as much time on an Aikido mat as he has?

I am sure you have a good understanding of what you do.

Saying things like "we get and you don't" is a form of bullying.

Forums are for an exchange of ideas.

What you do...what Mike does ...what Henry Ellis does...What George does...What Mark (both Marks) do...what Graham does...what we do...are all different...there are many starfish on the shore...all are beautiful.

Yours may be the strongest and the best and the most effective in your eyes.
There is still room for diversity...that is what make life wonderful.
Thanks for listening.

Mary
Mary, you got it backward.
The we? Was all of us being told BY Graham that we don't understand....And this includes a long list of aikidoka here.

As for the other videos of no touch aikido and taiji that are widely examined and critiqued. Many times the people who post them asked for a review. Other times Jun himself asked us to use video to make points.
You also missed a critcial point I raise, over and over and over. I am starting to wonder if you miss it on purpose. No one cares if people do cooperative practice and enjoy it. There is no reason that it has to be martial. It is only when they state that it is something it is not, they they invitte a critical examination.
This also goes into aiki or internals. Like it or not, if someone is going to state they can move someone with aiki, we..ave every right to discuss their ability to do so. Case in point: No one minds if we say something positive do they? This over sensitivity to examination doesn't say much for a budo-ka.
It is also clear that you do not address the long list of folks saying much the same thing to Graham. You reserve your ire for me. I did Aikido for years. I am in aikido dojo- surounded by aikido teachers- constantly. I have every right to an opinon, particularly when I can support them in person.

Quote:
Saying things like "we get and you don't" is a form of bullying.
Actually Mary it is a truth that overly sensitive people don't like.
That said, you need to review- as it is Graham who has been doing exactly that to all of his critique that he asked for.
Graham aside, lets look at the no touch throws and and the taiji I mentioned. I have no trouble with thier comments that it is effective, as long as they can do. It is obvious to most everyone this is not the case
Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-01-2011 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:22 AM   #66
AsimHanif
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

I think aikiweb is a wonderful resource and I applaud Jun for all his efforts. That said aikiweb is not (in my opinion) representative of the whole aikido community and the thoughts and opinions expressed here hopefully are not taken to be the general feeling of the aikido or martial arts community for that matter. I say this because of a concern that people new to aikido might think otherwise if this is a primary resource for them.
I for one have not heard that aikido is the ‘laughing stock' of the martial arts. Rather I hear from some that certain practitioners or even groups don't appear to be martially effective. But I hear that about a lot of arts and combat sports.
I also don't share the opinion that aikido is seeing a lack of interest. Looking at my own dojo, we have seen significant growth and sustained interest. And the fact the most of our members are former/current military and athletes speaks volumes as to the honest training that goes on here.
It does boil down to having access to good information and being able to absorb that info. Maybe I've been fortunate to have good teachers that stressed principles over style. So the whole discussion on aikido not having ‘aiki/ip' or being martial is quite foreign to me.
Again, everyone has an opinion. And surely I've seen/felt what I thought was not very good aikido but I won't indict the whole of aikido. It's especially intriguing to me when I feel one of these new aiki disciples who are being held up as examples of what aikido should be. The ones I've felt quite honestly have not been very impressive. I didn't experience any disruption to my body or earth shattering enlightenment. All I left with was the feeling of ‘why did I spend my money on this?' But I do think it's good to get out and feel what others are doing so as not to be in a bubble or self-delusional. I have just come away with the attitude that I'll do what feels right for me and let others do what they do.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:26 AM   #67
Marc Abrams
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Diversity is a nice thing. It is nice to be nice...... Legitimate analysis of strengths and weaknesses of "diversity" should not be confused with the idea of "bullying." Our sense of political correctness leads us to not be intellectually and emotionally honest with ourselves and others. We should and we should encourage others to engage in honest analysis of strengths and weaknesses. It is utter nonsense to try and hide behind excuses like "you don't understand" without then going out and showing people that they really do not understand (eg- poster with the videos). To Dan's credit, he gets out there and can demonstrate and teach what he talks about. If you are not willing to walk your talk, then you deserve the legitimate criticisms that you will receive.

Budo is about protecting what we love. If what we do genuinely cannot accomplish that goal then we need to face up to that and not hide behind ideas of "the niceness of diversity", "you don't understand", etc. Many more years of training in something does not serve as an excuse either. Toby Threadgill's teacher put it best when he said practicing something wrong one million times does not make something right or better.

The poster who is training in a Ki Society dojo is correct about some major differences between the Ki Society dojos in Japan and other places. It goes directly to the fact that Tohei Sensei was able to walk his talk. He got to the top of that food chain by being able to make what he did work against some serious challengers. What some people pass off as using Ki in their Aikido is embarrassing and should be called to task.

Just my 2 cents.

Marc Abrams
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:28 AM   #68
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Asim Hanif wrote: View Post
I think aikiweb is a wonderful resource and I applaud Jun for all his efforts. That said aikiweb is not (in my opinion) representative of the whole aikido community and the thoughts and opinions expressed here hopefully are not taken to be the general feeling of the aikido or martial arts community for that matter. I say this because of a concern that people new to aikido might think otherwise if this is a primary resource for them.
I for one have not heard that aikido is the ‘laughing stock' of the martial arts. Rather I hear from some that certain practitioners or even groups don't appear to be martially effective. But I hear that about a lot of arts and combat sports.
I also don't share the opinion that aikido is seeing a lack of interest. Looking at my own dojo, we have seen significant growth and sustained interest. And the fact the most of our members are former/current military and athletes speaks volumes as to the honest training that goes on here.
It does boil down to having access to good information and being able to absorb that info. Maybe I've been fortunate to have good teachers that stressed principles over style. So the whole discussion on aikido not having ‘aiki/ip' or being martial is quite foreign to me.
Again, everyone has an opinion. And surely I've seen/felt what I thought was not very good aikido but I won't indict the whole of aikido. It's especially intriguing to me when I feel one of these new aiki disciples who are being held up as examples of what aikido should be. The ones I've felt quite honestly have not been very impressive. I didn't experience any disruption to my body or earth shattering enlightenment. All I left with was the feeling of ‘why did I spend my money on this?' But I do think it's good to get out and feel what others are doing so as not to be in a bubble or self-delusional. I have just come away with the attitude that I'll do what feels right for me and let others do what they do.
I was refering to fighting effectiveness and light touch or no touch throws, in aikido as well as taiji where, under stress; people cannot deliver. And ...that....is a laughing stock in every martial venue I have ever seen or read, including most teachers in aikido in the many threads covering it as is evident and provable, here.
If you would like to find threads here where aikido people applaud that, I would love to see it. If you have examples of Taiji or aikido people (the two arts that seem to push this stuff the most) doing this type of work on outsiders who are fully engaged to stop them and it worked, I would love to see that as well. Otherwise the critique stands on its own merit.
I say it again.
No one is arguing cooperative practice....we... all do it to one degree or another in every art I know of.
It is the statements of effectiveness that cannot withstand scrutiny that is being addressed. Emotion should not be an issue.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-01-2011 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:44 AM   #69
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Diversity is a nice thing. It is nice to be nice...... Legitimate analysis of strengths and weaknesses of "diversity" should not be confused with the idea of "bullying."
...It is utter nonsense to try and hide behind excuses like "you don't understand" without then going out and showing people that they really do not understand (eg- poster with the videos). To Dan's credit, he gets out there and can demonstrate and teach what he talks about. If you are not willing to walk your talk, then you deserve the legitimate criticisms that you will receive.
Just my 2 cents.
Marc Abrams
Two very good points Marc.
I've never seen the like in Budo.
The tenet of budo was always... to be effective. Everyone keeps talking about how effective this or that teacher was, how amazing this or that teacher is...
Now it's, everyone is equal and everyone's practice is validated.
That's why I keep saying Budo is like how a good education should be- not everyone gets and "A."
All the best
Dan
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:45 AM   #70
Mark Freeman
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
It is noteworthy that there are no positive comments from anyone we would consider competent. It seems all the ki guys and all the English guys here walked away from this as well.
Dan
Hi Dan,

I'm not sure if I count as being considered competent, but I am a ki guy and I am English. I was the first to post a reply in this thread, when I said to Graham:

"Full marks to you for putting it out there for everyone to see. However, if I were you, I would find a hard hat, methinks you may be in for a bumpy ride."

He has taken alot of flak since he posted the vids for all to see.

I am not here to defend him, he can do that for himself. However, I reserve personal judgement until I get to actually feel what he is doing. Which I hope to do, in the not too distant future. Videos are a blessing and a curse in many ways. So much of what we speak of can not be understood by watching alone. You know as well as anyone, that you could not teach what you do, by visual means alone. It needs all the senses engaged, eyes, ears, body and mind, all have to be fully present.

In Graham's favour, I think he has a very good understanding of the philosophy of aikido, and although not everyone gets what he is writing (maybe language style), he does come across as someone who thinks deeply about what the/his true purpose of aikido is.

Maybe we should all concentrate more on improving our own practice, and critiquing others less. Who really cares if someone else is ineffective? the world is full of them, it would be too exhausting

BTW I have recently started Yoga as a supplementary practice to my aikido. In the first lesson the teacher was using very similar language to you, in setting up the body. Could it be that IP/IS skills all originated in India?

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:19 AM   #71
ronin67
Location: Sagamihara
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I liked that comment Ed. There are many reasons I respect Ueshiba-as Ellis noted in his book- and first and foremost was this model.
I think confusion enters into the picture due to the lack of good models as I previously mentioned. Just as most people still think of their dads strength or power as daunting-due to them growing up admiring their dad- they still think of their teachers that way. So those who were indeed just the wallpaper of the budo world left a lack luster heritage. Love is indeed many times blind. Critical thinking and dispassionate review is the best way to go.
There is really no way to know if your aiki is truly worthwhile if all you do is play with your own group. Yet...what do we see the majority of people doing? Most of these people we see in the videos would all but completely fall apart if they ever stepped on the mat with people with serious aiki skills, much less serious fighting skills and aiki. So they avoid being exposed. Others confront, self-examine and grow.
Cheers
Dan
Too many people are just too sensitive and are just unable to make constructive criticism and take same as that. Bottom line, traditions and discipline still need to dictate the flow of any form of martial arts. Yes, you can have a informal class after the regular session, however you don't disregard the core concepts (falling properly and the flow of constructive/instructive discipline remains). If you want peace without discipline and a structured environment, take up something else. What we do in Aikido is still a martial discipline of self-defense (a form of combat).
You have liberals and conservatives in Aikido just like you do in politics. Some feel the traditional discipline of a dojo setting is not needed to get the same effect across, while others see no benefit from diverting from the disciplines of traditional/structured dojo discipline. I tend to favor the traditional, however, it is not to say that outside the traditional discipline of the dojo setting is bad either as long as the fundamentals of the techniques remain intact and the extension of KI is being used in EFFECTIVE waza.
If you are applying for example sankyo, and I'm not in pain on my tippy toes doing the safety dance, your Aikido is ineffective in traditional terms. However, in Graham's defense, it is also not fair by just looking at this video for me to draw a conclusion on how effective his Aikido is and his character. For that Graham, my apologies sir. May God bless

Ed

"Aikido can never truly bring peace without the full understanding and application of KI ".
-Me
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:25 PM   #72
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

What is displayed in these vids is most definitely not the way I practise, nor my teacher's.

I. simply. do. not. get. it. at. all.

When Graham says this is not teaching, just for fun, I am lost too. Where is the consistency in that?

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:30 PM   #73
DH
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

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Ed Duffy wrote: View Post
Too many people are just too sensitive and are just unable to make constructive criticism and take same as that. Bottom line, traditions and discipline still need to dictate the flow of any form of martial arts.
....in Graham's defense, it is also not fair by just looking at this video for me to draw a conclusion on how effective his Aikido is and his character. For that Graham, my apologies sir. May God bless
Ed
I think people are being too sensitive as well, particularly after they ask for opinions. That aside when it comes to Graham I'm not offering any opinions on his character..would you?
I was discussing his videos in light of many others, like the ones here. If someone doesn't want to discuss their work why do they put it up there to discuss?

It was Graham who began to tell us we do not understand aikido or kokyu so he offered to let us watch him display his self proclaimed mastery of aikido in this video apptly titled Two masters at play
I have no problem withEd and Mary's comments that they cannot see aiki and kokyu visually Its just erroneous to say others can't. I can, and this does not demonstrate either.
Again, why is it that people keep presenting their work and then get upset at commentary...on the work.
1. The response that it is we don't understand seems perfectly fine.
2. For us to tell them they don't understand is bullying?
3. Who's understanding will will result in competence in person? What happens when one consistently and repeatedly fails in person?
4. What happens when it is tested?

When people in Budo make comments about effectiveness and call themselves a master and then present video, they enter into a dialogue. I would guess that it is safer to do from behind a keyboard. Just look at the amount of stress simple comments have produced. Were you to try it with people who actually do know the subject, I think I would agree with Mark Freeman;..."best to wear a hard hat because you are in for a bumpy ride."
Dan

Last edited by DH : 09-01-2011 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:37 PM   #74
ryback
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

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Ed Duffy wrote: View Post
It is funny, every time I practice Aikido, I'm always walking away with some type of bruise here or there. Not saying I'm all that, because I'm not.

Dojo discipline is also something stressed very much, at least in the KI Aikido dojo that I attend now (and to be honest every KI Aikido dojo I attended). Hats being worn in the dojo? That would never be acceptable in any KI Aikido Dojo I attended. If your into the long Bob Marley type hair that is fine, just tie it and let the bodies hit the floor (with KI and good waza). The Aikido has to be effective. The circular movement of the uke also looks dead. This is not a personal hit on the original poster (he is a very nice gentleman), but the "Hippie" Aikido just doesn't do it for me. It is missing the structure and discipline to me. I'm use to seeing people moving around with a sense of purpose and effective extension of KI, with good waza.

May God bless!

Ed
Of course! I agree totally! No etiquette, no attack, no waza, no ki...Non-resisting aikido? Looks more like non-existing aikido!
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:44 PM   #75
ryback
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Re: Golden Center Aikido for your pleasure

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post

The tenet of budo was always... to be effective. Everyone keeps talking about how effective this or that teacher was, how amazing this or that teacher is...
Now it's, everyone is equal and everyone's practice is validated.
That's why I keep saying Budo is like how a good education should be- not everyone gets and "A."
All the best
Dan
Well said! I agree with everything! And if one wants to get an "A", he should at lest be looking to the right direction with his form of practice.
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