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Old 08-14-2011, 09:31 AM   #226
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
There again maybe he thinks I'm not British and am an alien. Yeah, that would make sense.
Well Graham? are you? and if so, which planet do you hail from?

regards,

Mark
p.s I've just returned from a week on Notuchthro, nice place but the twin suns played havock with my sleep patterns

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:39 AM   #227
Cliff Judge
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
I remember getting a coaching certificate over there from a gentleman who had his wrist broken testing Chiba Sensei, twice: apparently he believed the first time was a one-off and tried testing him again... and from what I hear from my British friends, stories like that are not unusual at all for the early days of Chiba Sensei in England.
So maybe that's why, or at least part of the reason.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:13 PM   #228
graham christian
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Well Graham? are you? and if so, which planet do you hail from?

regards,

Mark
p.s I've just returned from a week on Notuchthro, nice place but the twin suns played havock with my sleep patterns
I thought I knew you from somewhere, of course now I remember. Yeah I remember it was a bit mind blowing for you but I didn't see you again after you went off with those green ladies.

Good to know you recovered.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:17 PM   #229
graham christian
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
So maybe that's why, or at least part of the reason.
Think I've heard many stories similar from all over Cliff. I recall some dude running into Georges 'immovable leg' and ending up in a state.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-15-2011, 01:17 AM   #230
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
Thanks for pointing that out Mark - I just checked George's diary on his website, it says Coventry, May 4t-6th. George, that would be awesome, will it be a public event?

Nicholas
Hi Guys,
My understanding is that my hosts will basically fill the event from within their own dojo, so it won't get widely publicized. My wife and I will have some flexibility though about when we arrive and when we leave. So if anyone else wants to play while I am over there, I am certain something could be arranged. I am leaving the weekend before and the weekend after open on my schedule to allow for some touristing...

- George

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:21 AM   #231
richardlowc
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

George,

I have to be very careful in what I say because I know there are two groups of Aikido and a lot of students like the Harry Potter style. It is one of the many reasons I don’t post anymore on Aiki forums. My friend who gave up Aikido did tell me not to bother posting and not to get involved in something we saw coming 10 years ago. I guess he was right. I think it’s got worse than we predicted. This will be my final post before I close my account.

Bjj is not a sport. You are misinformed. Helio Gracie NEVER invented it for that. No martial art in the world can train you to deal with multiple attackers. It’s not the movies. So you say Aikido was designed for multiple attackers but hold on a second you say you don’t think it’s a method of self defence. So you are teaching spirituality to defend against multiple attackers? No wonder people have left. They don’t know what they are doing. They don’t know what it is.

When I compared your videos to Seagal style I never said you were making action movies. I’m talking about the clips of Seagal teaching Aikido. They are available for anyone to see.

You may think my statement about Seagal and what the students said about him came out of a public relations ad but it’s true. I bet that surprised you. I bet if you ran a seminar and Seagal ran one I know who I would put my money on to get the biggest turn out. Have you looked at the real reasons why people didn’t turn up to your last one and why you felt you had to send your “open letter. You said it yourself, “membership is at an all time low”. I have given you some of the most pertinent ones but your arrogance is beyond belief.

Janet said “Umm no” they went to see his action films. You are right Janet but a lot wanted to see him do his Aikido in his films.

You do know it’s perfectly ok for an American, Englishman, Australian etc to be on the same level or better than a Japanese Shihan. Just because they were with the founder doesn’t mean they are always going to be better or someone can’t improve on what they have done. Have you ever heard of the term emulate success? Seagals instructor was ranked 8th Dan by O’sensei at age 42, so he is pretty close to Osensei don’t you think George?

The people you quote I have never even heard of. To say he isn’t influential in the Aikido community is complete and utter nonsense in my opinion. He just has other endeavours he wants to pursue. He would still get a huge turn out if he put on a seminar right now. I for one would fly from the other side of the world and so would friends of mine who gave up Aikido.

When you said “O-Sensei's presentation of Aikido was almost entirely as a spiritual practice” I knew then it was time for me to leave this forum. I have never once heard O’sensei say Aikido was not a martial art or Budo. I have no idea where you have got this from. I think you have completely misunderstood what he said. Next you’ll be quoting books from fancy text written by his students. Oh dear. Have you read the book by Koichi Tohei which was the first book published with the approval of the founder I think? There is no reference in there to Osensei saying Aikido was not a martial art for self defence. Was he not the highest ranked student of Osensei?

When you make comments about “their is seldom consideration for the spiritual side” what the heck do you base that on? Have you ever considered the fact that those people who don’t agree with that side of Aikido are on a different spiritual level. Maybe they are on a more advanced level spiritually.

We have some excellent Aikidoka in the UK. In fact my teacher’s Dan certificate was signed by Osensei and he started in the early 1950’s. He was incredible, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I wish you the best of luck George. I sincerely hope you get your membership of Aikido students back up one day.
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Old 08-15-2011, 04:47 AM   #232
Mark Freeman
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
We have some excellent Aikidoka in the UK. In fact my teacher's Dan certificate was signed by Osensei and he started in the early 1950's. He was incredible, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Hi Richard,

who is/was your teacher? Aikido was introduced into the UK in 1955. My own teacher (Ken Williams), was the first to receive a Dan grade at some point after that. All other teachers in the UK received their grades after that.

Unless you know something I don't, I think you may have your facts a bit skewed.

As you refer to 'Harry Potter' aikido I'm assuming you may be connected with Sensei Ellis, as far as I understand things, he arrived at the Hut Dojo in 56/57 and would have trained for some time before receiving his dan grade.

regards,

Mark
p.s. what is Harry Potter aikido anyway?

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:05 AM   #233
richardlowc
Location: London
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

The late Shihan Ralph Reynolds.

He was an incredible Aikidoka, absolutely sensational.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:30 AM   #234
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
The late Shihan Ralph Reynolds.

He was an incredible Aikidoka, absolutely sensational.
Hi Richard.
I think you'll find on the seagal thread that I quoted how I admire his Aikido. I find he is very able and good at demonstrating many aspects of Aikido. I would say he focusses a lot on irimi and centreline. There are many plus points I could acknowledge in his Aikido.

May I also add that he speaks much about the spiritual side of the art and can relate much to what he does. Thus he has a greater understanding.

He himself has said where he is at in his own opinion and explained how he understands the square and the triangle and there application in Aikido. He then states how he knows the uses of circle but the higher level to do with love he may someday get a better understanding of. He says he learns everyday.

An excellent Aikidoka in my mind. Very aware of the spiritual side of the art. In fact I would say he holds a lot back on that side for he knows the western press let alone the western mind will ridicule it.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:51 AM   #235
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Richard. Just to add that if Seagal did hold a seminar over here it would no doubt be a sell out. His fame and world recognition far outstrips most in the Aikido world.

However, using that to put another down is a bit below the belt no?

I suggest it's not others you should be looking at. If we take these opportunities we can learn much about ourselves.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:33 AM   #236
Richard Stevens
Location: Indianapolis
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
P.S I was out last Friday and got talking to someone in a restaurant. He was interested in martial arts. When I told him I practice BJJ and Aikido, he said Aikido, why do you do that for? "It's just based on silly cooperation. The only good thing about Aikido was Steven Seagal". And now you wonder why the numbers are dropping.
Inaccurate hyperbole, now logical fallacy... very entertaining.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:11 AM   #237
richardlowc
Location: London
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Richard. Just to add that if Seagal did hold a seminar over here it would no doubt be a sell out. His fame and world recognition far outstrips most in the Aikido world.

However, using that to put another down is a bit below the belt no?

I suggest it's not others you should be looking at. If we take these opportunities we can learn much about ourselves.

Regards.G.
Well quite frankly Graham I don't like his comment about us Brit Aikidoka. I find it quite offensive. I can tell he is arrogant from his first reply back to me.

The last reply he gave back was almost laughable in my opinion.

I bet he doesn't know that when Seagal held a seminar in Paris back in 1999, Seagal came over to the Brit Aikidoka group and said we were the only ones doing what he had asked for correctly. I wasn't there but several people told me.

From the videos I've seen of George and the amount of dislikes his video's get his style is not for me anyway.

I hope he doesn't take it personally but I think he is out of touch with reality and I was just giving him my insight based on why I think his memberships in Aikido are at an all time low.

Peace
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:18 AM   #238
Russ Q
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

So much for making that your last post....
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:29 AM   #239
richardlowc
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Well quite frankly Graham I don't like his comment about us Brit Aikidoka. I find it quite offensive. I can tell he is arrogant from his first reply back to me.

You are right; it would be a sell out. He fails to realize, acknowledge or give some credit that Seagal was responsible for the surge in new Aikido students throughout the late 1980s early 1990'. Just like the karate kid was influential in the amount of kids taking up Karate. We just had two people start not long ago because of guess who? Seagal.

The last reply he gave back was almost laughable in my opinion.

I bet he doesn't know that when Seagal held a seminar in Paris back in 1999, he came over to the Brit Aikidoka group and said we were the only ones doing what he had asked for correctly. I wasn't there but several people told me.

Just because the Japanese invented it doesn’t mean to say a westerner can’t become better. It’s like with football, the English invented it but the Brazilians took it away, mastered it, cultivated it and took it to a whole new level. They are only human beings for goodness sake. I have been to Japan and I have seen it. The Japanese used to come over to see Shihan Reynolds.

I hope he doesn't take it personally but I think he is out of touch with reality and I was just giving him my insight based on why I think his memberships in Aikido are at an all time low.

Peace
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:30 AM   #240
richardlowc
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Russ Qureshi wrote: View Post
So much for making that your last post....
Yeah Russ,

I must stop now.

Aikido sure does give you plenty to discuss.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:12 AM   #241
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
I bet he doesn't know that when Seagal held a seminar in Paris back in 1999, he came over to the Brit Aikidoka group and said we were the only ones doing what he had asked for correctly. I wasn't there but several people told me.
When this fat poor actor Seagal was in Paris, he came with plenty of body guards, where were standing all time around tatami. Is that mean he can't defend himself LOL

What was more funny, there was a chair close to tatami, so every time he was sitting there, a very nice girl was putting pink slippers on his feet. Every tulku must have his own girl slave?

But the nicest part was his jiu waza, when he felt down badly and the attackers were all on him, pink color was a bad luck hahahaha - that telling me a LOT about his supposed "skills"....

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:29 AM   #242
Basia Halliop
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
I bet if you ran a seminar and Seagal ran one I know who I would put my money on to get the biggest turn out
OK, this is so obvious that I can't understand why anyone would take it to mean anything. If ANY movie star ran an aikido seminar it would sell out, regardless if the actor (or the attendees) had even heard of aikido the day before the event. That's what being a movie star means; it's in the job description. It just has nothing to do with anything. It's neither a sign of being good nor of being bad, nor of being taken seriously or not taken seriously. It's simply a sign of being a movie star.

For my part, I didn't know Steven Seagal did Aikido until after I was in Aikido, and most non-Aikido people I've ever mentioned that fact to didn't know either. They knew he did action movies but didn't know that in real life he actually studied a martial art called Aikido.... It's a fact that seems in my own experience to be of interest mostly just to people who are already in Aikido.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:05 AM   #243
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
I have to be very careful in what I say because I know there are two groups of Aikido and a lot of students like the Harry Potter style.
Only 2? That simplifies things a bit.

Quote:
Just because the Japanese invented it doesn't mean to say a westerner can't become better.
I missed the point of this. Where was the opposite of this ever expressed? This seems like a strawman to me, although I admit to being a bit sleep deprived.

To be as frank as I perceive you to be, I find it hard to take your posts very seriously. I think you have a few valid points mixed in with a bunch of something, well, less so.
Sorry to see you won't be continuing to refine the discussion.
Good luck in your training.
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:51 AM   #244
graham christian
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
Well quite frankly Graham I don't like his comment about us Brit Aikidoka. I find it quite offensive. I can tell he is arrogant from his first reply back to me.

You are right; it would be a sell out. He fails to realize, acknowledge or give some credit that Seagal was responsible for the surge in new Aikido students throughout the late 1980s early 1990'. Just like the karate kid was influential in the amount of kids taking up Karate. We just had two people start not long ago because of guess who? Seagal.

The last reply he gave back was almost laughable in my opinion.

I bet he doesn't know that when Seagal held a seminar in Paris back in 1999, he came over to the Brit Aikidoka group and said we were the only ones doing what he had asked for correctly. I wasn't there but several people told me.

Just because the Japanese invented it doesn't mean to say a westerner can't become better. It's like with football, the English invented it but the Brazilians took it away, mastered it, cultivated it and took it to a whole new level. They are only human beings for goodness sake. I have been to Japan and I have seen it. The Japanese used to come over to see Shihan Reynolds.

I hope he doesn't take it personally but I think he is out of touch with reality and I was just giving him my insight based on why I think his memberships in Aikido are at an all time low.

Peace
Hi Richard.
He has already apologised for the Brit statement and all credit to him. If you are offended by his first comment back to you then either send him a pm and sort it out or let it go. It's not worth holding onto things to use as an excuse to attack others in my opinion.

Your view on the Japanese not being the best just because they invented it may be shared by George or not but I would say if the standard over there generally better it's not for that reason.

Shihan Reynolds was no doubt a great teacher, I believe Donovan Waite was one of his students no?

As usual it's not so much what is said that upsets people it's usually how it's said. If Georges reply to you sounded arrogant to you then I'm sure that your comments to him sounded arrogant also.

We all make mistakes.

Regards.G.
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Old 08-16-2011, 01:18 AM   #245
richardlowc
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Graham,

I think Donovan was one of Shihan Reynolds students. I'm not sure when it was though.

R
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Old 08-16-2011, 01:22 AM   #246
richardlowc
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Only 2? That simplifies things a bit.

I missed the point of this. Where was the opposite of this ever expressed? This seems like a strawman to me, although I admit to being a bit sleep deprived.

To be as frank as I perceive you to be, I find it hard to take your posts very seriously. I think you have a few valid points mixed in with a bunch of something, well, less so.
Sorry to see you won't be continuing to refine the discussion.
Good luck in your training.
Matt
Matthew,

Of course my points are valid. It's common sense.

My friend and I predicted it 10 years ago.

R
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Old 08-16-2011, 01:48 AM   #247
richardlowc
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Matthew,

Oh dear. Look all I was simply saying was two new students started because of him. If that is happening at our class in a local area I think that number multiplies nationally over the year.

Of course my points are valid. It's common sense. My friend and I predicted it 10 years ago.

Disregard what you want from my comments. I couldn't care less. The bottom line was "Membership is at an all time low"

Game over, thanks for playing.

R
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Old 08-16-2011, 03:48 AM   #248
dps
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

From;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogant

ar·ro·gant
   [ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.
2.
characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

and

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogance

ar·ro·gance
   [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Would proclaiming oneself as an 'Elite Professional" and those that don't meet his standards of time at the dojo as "hobbyist" fall within these definitions?

And lets not forget the students who are afraid of approaching him because they fear "The Wrath Of God".

dps
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:41 AM   #249
Cliff Judge
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
From;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogant

ar·ro·gant
   [ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.
2.
characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

and

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogance

ar·ro·gance
   [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Would proclaiming oneself as an 'Elite Professional" and those that don't meet his standards of time at the dojo as "hobbyist" fall within these definitions?
David,

No.

George is a rokudan, and he earned his rank from Saotome Sensei. Therefore, he doesn't need to proclaim himself as "Elite" because he has been certified as such by a student of Osensei. And "Professional" is a matter of fact.

As far as these definitions go, I was more thinking along the lines of:

Quote:
Richard Lowcock wrote: View Post
Of course my points are valid. It's common sense.
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:43 AM   #250
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Open Letter to My Students

Dear Dick Lowcock:
Are you Tony?
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