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Old 09-11-2002, 10:24 AM   #26
Dojo: Mizu Aikido
Location: Ft. Worth Texas
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 94
Why talk? Because it's one of the five senses. Why use your left hand? Because it's there.

Spirituality is all well and good, and we all have a sense of it to some degree.

But there are those of us, like myself, who would never know about the spiritual side of aikido (or anything else) without written and verbal communication. It's entirely possible I could have a revelation like O'sensei tomorrow (HAH yeah right) all on my own but I think we all need the guidance of others and this sort of interaction might just get us one step further on the way.
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Old 09-11-2002, 11:31 AM   #27
Deb Fisher
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 145
Opher Donchin said:

"I think words 'work' for me when they are imbued with the same spirit: they involve a generous giving of my self (or my conversational partner) at the same time they manage to maintain internal balance. Often, when I'm trying to figure out what to say, this is the question I ask myself: what is the most trusting or most giving thing I can say that will leave me feeling vulnerable and connected?"


Our dojo is in the middle of relocating, a stressful and exciting time. The last class in the old dojo was slightly sentimental affair of course, and Sensei focused on Embracing Conflict. Interesting - basically just a groovy way to talk about irimi-type stuff, but effective! Effective aikido-wise, a good hour long reminder to take a moment and sense what's actually happening before reacting to an attack, to not back up etc. And effective elsewhere! I left feeling much more open, feeling like I have a lot less to be defensive about or protect than I previously did.

Which is good. Thanks Paula, I'm learning a lot because of this thread.

Deb Fisher
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:49 PM   #28
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,887
How you gonna have body mind unification if you can't use your mind? is it really about why we talk at all or is it more about what we talk about and that nasty tone I get in my voice when I am not real happy with myself?

Until again,


Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 09-11-2002, 01:56 PM   #29
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,997
Lynn Seiser (SeiserL) wrote:
How you gonna have body mind unification if you can't use your mind?
"Bunbu ichi."

-- Jun

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Old 09-12-2002, 12:06 AM   #30
Dojo: Shoheijuku Aikido, Fukuoka
Location: Fukuoka
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 127
Deb Fisher wrote:
Lately I have been hypothesizing that talk makes it harder to experience whatever "it" is. I am increasingly certain that for me verbalization is a distance-creater, it turns experience into concept.
Just like a picture tells a thousands words, our mind holds many thousand pictures, and our soul encompasses many minds...

We like to divide things up into pieces. Our mind digests things this way. Our mind, body and spirit are all one, but we divide them for our mind to understand.

To go in the direction of Aiki (or "the truth" or "God" or enlightenment) all three elements must go in the same direction. Just as when you turn in Aikido, your head must move first for your body to follow smoothly, otherwise it would be like trying to walk forwards while looking over your shoulder, or saying you are going to New York then heading towards Los Angeles.

So, we practice physically (or go and sit and meditate, as I do) - that takes care of our body. We read words to remind us of why we are doing things, and our soul already has its direction...
This could just be about me - as you all know, I have a big, talking mouth. And besides, it's such human nature to share these experiences with eachother.
Indeed! And sharing is productive! Though we divide ourselves into mind, body and spirit, there is no doubt when we talk there are not merely words transmitted, as speach is just one vehicle for our soul to express itself, and others perceive our feelings and spirit, conciously or unconciously.
Connundrum - an experience makes one want to share, which takes away from the experience. I think about this probably too much.
Sometimes the truth must be found in the contradiction. In reality, there is none. We are spiritual beings encompassing a physical universe as our tool to develop. It is both the case that we understate the great nature of our soul and fail to utilise our body and mind as well as we could.

When we starting seeing again how these elements (mind, body, spirit; id, ego, superego; father, son, holy ghost; ) are part of each other then we start to get "it"

I hope that wasn't too esoteric for any of you. Deb, I think you are really heading somewhere interesting. May I suggest, let the feelings from your soul speak more. Your mind will object to not understanding, but it will quieten after a while
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Old 09-12-2002, 01:22 AM   #31
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
shock value

I saw a young lady walking down the street today. She had a T-shirt with big bold words on it that said: "DON'T TEACH ME."
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Old 09-12-2002, 10:15 AM   #32
Deb Fisher
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 145
Currawong wrote:

"Sometimes the truth must be found in the contradiction. "

Heading into paradox - to my very Western mind, this has always been an uncomfortable place to go. My sensei is often saying that this is the foundation of aikido, though, and since he's in charge of the only aikido experience I've ever had I tend to agree.

Seriously, finding a comfortable space (wouldn't tend to call it truth) within all kinds of paradox is worthwhile, I agree with you.

Still diggin' this thread - Ya'al can go ahead and teach me anything you want,


Deb Fisher
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Old 09-12-2002, 11:08 AM   #33
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
I went through a period where I often found myself saying, "the most telling characteristic of a deep truth is that it's opposite is also true." I don't say it as much these days, but I still that there is some depth to that truth.

Yours in Aiki
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