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Old 07-22-2011, 02:53 AM   #26
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Sure...the Germans practicing genocide is equal to the Americans.
The Japanese practicing bayonet and stabbing men and leaving them hanging up to slowly drown and wail all night in their own blood is the same as the Americans
The Khmer rouge killing millions of men women and children is the same as the Americans
Everyone gets an "A" again, huh Graham?
Everyone is equal.
The Japanese started the war. I know a Japanese fellow who lost his extended family in Nagasaki and thinks the Bomb is the smartest thing we ever did to end it. It saved millions of lives on both sides.
On the whole I'll take Americas budo any day wharts and all over much of what I have seen. I just wish we stopped all outside action, war, money, charity, support, everything..and just left and concentrated on ourselves,
Dear Dan ,
I echo your sentiments written by you in the last sentence.Why we in the U.K feels it necessary to intervene every time there is conflict in other areas or donate millions of pounds in aid [at the same time as the population in Britain apart from politicians and bankers etc are struggling to pay the bills ] i never can understand.We should as you suggest put our own house in order first. Cheers, Joe
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:53 AM   #27
hughrbeyer
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Boston
Location: Peterborough, NH
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Re: Budo and Aikido

There is a difference between the aggressor and the attacked; between those who fight to defend themselves and those who fight to build empires; between those who treat prisoners decently and those who didn't; between those who fought for a just cause and those who didn't.

When the means of fighting involves civilian casualties, it's regrettable and perhaps immoral, depending on the circumstances. But context matters, and details matter. Was Dresden justified after the Battle of Britain? Would it have been justified before? Was Hiroshima justified and Nagasaki not? Why?

These are legitimate questions and to pretend to address them with an easy aphorism is, I think, lazy.

Vietnam and Iraq are totally irrelevant to the original point, but I've no wish to try to defend either one, BTW.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:22 AM   #28
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Don Nordin wrote: View Post
Y... I would say a person can become quite proficent in mastering the techiques of Aikido, but he may not have a concept of Budo at all. .
Yep! Why not? But...
Quote:
Don Nordin wrote: View Post
So do you think one can truely be an Aikido master if they have not grasped the concept of Budo.
I would like to distinguish between mastering the techniques and being a master. A master (shihan?) is exemplary in his ways, and has great technical skills. Someone who 'only' masters the techniques but has low moral values, is no 'true' master in my book.

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:57 AM   #29
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
There is a difference between the aggressor and the attacked; between those who fight to defend themselves and those who fight to build empires; between those who treat prisoners decently and those who didn't; between those who fought for a just cause and those who didn't.

When the means of fighting involves civilian casualties, it's regrettable and perhaps immoral, depending on the circumstances. But context matters, and details matter. Was Dresden justified after the Battle of Britain? Would it have been justified before? Was Hiroshima justified and Nagasaki not? Why?

These are legitimate questions and to pretend to address them with an easy aphorism is, I think, lazy.

Vietnam and Iraq are totally irrelevant to the original point, but I've no wish to try to defend either one, BTW.
Dear Hugh,
There is a surfeit of material on the web relating to the causes of conflict in Europe and the Far East along with book of the same ilk.I have read /looked at many of these .Yes , the questions of issues like morality /honour are important.Countries cannot state that they are championing the rights of freedom and democracy etc if they indulging in underground activities themselves.People in glass houses----
Have a nice day, LAZY JOE. [Its simply the case I am the laziest guy in town].Lyrics courtesy of Marlene Dietrich.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:42 AM   #30
Cliff Judge
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
True, but you could say much the same thing about "Christianity", "Buddhism", "Democracy" or just about any other belief system you could name.
One thing you cannot say about these things is that they were cynical propaganda created by people who had no personal belief in them, that were pressed upon a society in order to achieve a goal that was at odds with the spirit they were constructed to evoke.

You can say this about Bushido.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:20 AM   #31
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Dan ,
I echo your sentiments written by you in the last sentence.Why we in the U.K feels it necessary to intervene every time there is conflict in other areas or donate millions of pounds in aid [at the same time as the population in Britain apart from politicians and bankers etc are struggling to pay the bills ] i never can understand.We should as you suggest put our own house in order first. Cheers, Joe
Hi Joe.
Politics as usual? Same old mad games of power and wealth.

As far as Bushido goes I look at it this way:

1) It is to do with warriors, the way of the warrior.

2) Basically it's a set of rules that warriors or if you extend it further armies are meant to or agree to abide by.

Modern day it's probably split up to expected behaviour and rules of engagement.

Honour then would be purely a matter of adhering to those rules otherwise you would be some kind of outcast, be it a Ronin or a terrorist.

It's interesting looking at the previous posts from this view for it makes you wonder what were the rules everyone or all sides agreed to say in the second world war?

In past times when armies had this set of rules that they would meet at a certain location, a battlefield and sort it out there was a certain 'bushido' involved.

Remember the old british red tunics, all standing out as a unit with formations etc. A certain set of rules applied there but they definitely didn't include camouflage.

So I would say that no matter what expert says there was no bushido really in old japan then to me of course there was. Any group of warriors would form some kind of set of rules of behaviour, engagement, training, etc. As to how unified it was is a different discussion.

Regards.G.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:01 PM   #32
Chris Li
 
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
One thing you cannot say about these things is that they were cynical propaganda created by people who had no personal belief in them, that were pressed upon a society in order to achieve a goal that was at odds with the spirit they were constructed to evoke.

You can say this about Bushido.
Well, I think that you and I have been reading a different history of Christianity.

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-22-2011, 12:18 PM   #33
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
On the whole I'll take Americas budo any day wharts and all over much of what I have seen. I just wish we stopped all outside action, war, money, charity, support, everything..and just left and concentrated on ourselves,
it's the "evil things happen when good men do nothing" or the "stand up for those who can't"
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:42 PM   #34
DH
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
it's the "evil things happen when good men do nothing" or the "stand up for those who can't"
Right now we need to "stand up" and help us. The world pretty much hates us anyway, might as well take care of those who cannot help themselves...us...and be hated anyway. Otherwise there won't be anything left of us to help anywhere.
Dan
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:55 PM   #35
Lee Salzman
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Right now we need to "stand up" and help us. The world pretty much hates us anyway, might as well take care of those who cannot help themselves...us...and be hated anyway. Otherwise there won't be anything left of us to help anywhere.
Dan
That actually surprised me when I moved over to Finland. I thought, "Oh crap, I'm an American here, I'm gonna be a target..." And the attitude towards things, especially our wars, has been somewhat surprising. Largely, they just live in their own little bubble, just as much as we Americans do, just more concerned about their own country than anything else, and not much discussion of American issues really seems to penetrate here. They seem to have a firm enough understanding that we are not as stupid as our leaders. The couple I have managed to talk to in depth have been rather supportive, at least in the case of the Afghanistan war, of why we ostensibly went there in the first place, though they seemed foggy about the details of what the Afghanistan and Iraq wars represented. Then again, I'd probably not be having that sort of discussion with someone who was screaming "Die you American pig!" at me in the first place.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:49 PM   #36
Don Nordin
Dojo: Aikibudokan Houston TX
Location: Houston Texas
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Re: Budo and Aikido

I received this from my Sensei today, It is from George Ledyard and sums up very well what I was thinking.

Aikido is a form of Budo. Budo is basically the use of the martial arts for personal transformation. Aikido as Budo is a "Michi" or Martial "WAY" (the "do" in Aiki-do). O-Sensei, the Founder, actually believed that through Aikido, the whole world could be brought into a state of harmony; he called our art "The Way of Peace". For him, Budo was a life and death matter. Given the right level of commitment one could truly become a better person, less fearful, stronger, braver, more compassionate. One could, in his or her own Mind and Body understand that everything in the universe is essentially connected. His creation of Aikido represents a radical transformation of how Budo was viewed historically. It is a unique art. It is not a "hobby", it is not a "sport", it is not a "workout", it is a Michi, a Way. The central maxim of Aikido is "masakatsu, agatsu" "True Victory is Self Victory".

George Ledyard
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:12 PM   #37
Don Nordin
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Re: Budo and Aikido

Let me clarify Sensei Ledyard wrote, Sensei Wilkinson provided it to me
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