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Old 07-17-2011, 07:55 AM   #126
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Henry,
Not often we have conflicting views but on this one,sorry I must disagree with your viewpoint.on Mr Seagals Aikido skills.I base my views on what I have seen on the Net.I discount his choreographic fight scenes in his film work.I do however agree with your second point of Mr Seagal as a person. Cheers, Joe.
Joe

I agree - one can never take too seriously what we see in the movies. I like the strong condensed style of SS - It looks and is effective.....A friend of mine who writes for a top MA magazine was looking forward to a pre-arranged interview with SS - Afterwards he said SS was the worst of all the people he had interviewed..he did call him some other names which I forget now

Henry Ellis
British Aikido
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:18 AM   #127
Anjisan
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Ai symbol Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089563/

Masterblaster (1987)

Storyline

The national 'Gotcha' championship brings a variety of queer fellows together. A Vietnam veteran always looking for adventure, a female police officer with a trauma, because she once could not shoot in the right moment, a Japanese martial-arts master always looking for the opportunity to train his skills as well as some people who wish nothing more as to get the 50,000 dollars which await the winner. All in all it could be an exciting weekend, when suddenly the game becomes reality as someone is shooting live rounds.

Yoshimitsu Yamada as Yamada the Japanese martial-arts master.

dps
I stand corrected 1000%! Yamada sensei appeared in a movie, what,..... 24 years ago that I am willing to bet 98% on the people on this board have never ever heard of let alone let alone serve as a sufficient basis to judge (as if any of us are qualified to begin with) his skill by-assuming we are use movies to do so.

However, my original point is still valid, the appearance/ or lack of one in a movie ( I guess that I will have to have someone-ha ha- appropriate-I am not sure who, it won't be me. I have way way too much respect for him, having been thrown by him, seen him in action, and will be testing for Sandan in front of him-question Saotome sensei about his abilities and titles given has not appeared in a movie)............ is irrelevant.

In Seagal sensei's case (as in any other) if Hombu says you are a (x) dan rank than you are, especially by 7th dan. Of course we can get into rank inflation, evey dojo/ organization having different standards but by that point I don't believe the guys with collectively hundreds, if not thousand of years experience at Hombu would sign off on someone (especially non-japanese) for 7th dan unless the goods were there.

As to the point made that one could argue that attacks are choreographed if is predicted or coached from uke-well that is the essence of many a criticism of the Aikido community and its training methods at least that I have heard by those outside of it. However, in my opinion even if one chooses to dismiss Seagal sensei's demonstrations in the Path Beyond Thought as predictable and choreographed-which seems to me very difficult as a whole to do when one watches it, the randori Seagal sensei demonstrates seems quite impressive.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:36 AM   #128
Chris Li
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Jason Rudolph wrote: View Post
In Seagal sensei's case (as in any other) if Hombu says you are a (x) dan rank than you are, especially by 7th dan. Of course we can get into rank inflation, evey dojo/ organization having different standards but by that point I don't believe the guys with collectively hundreds, if not thousand of years experience at Hombu would sign off on someone (especially non-japanese) for 7th dan unless the goods were there.
Without commenting on Seagal's rank in particular, there are considerations other than skill that go into a seventh dan promotion and weigh as heavily, or more so. You also have to consider that the hombu, i.e. Doshu, doesn't really know most of the people that get promoted.

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-17-2011, 11:52 AM   #129
graham christian
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

So many looking through green eyes. No wonder.......
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:20 PM   #130
Anjisan
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Ki Symbol Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Without commenting on Seagal's rank in particular, there are considerations other than skill that go into a seventh dan promotion and weigh as heavily, or more so. You also have to consider that the hombu, i.e. Doshu, doesn't really know most of the people that get promoted.

Best,

Chris
I completely agree with you and yes, other factors certainly weigh in heavily. I don't pretend to know the working of Aikido politics at those altitudes. However, he must have some reasonable trust in those who recommend that someone (in this case Seagal sensei) be promoted-Isoyama sensei, Abe sensei, etc. I do find it curious when someone earlier said that Seagal sensei has been promoted to 8th dan (if true) when others such a Saotome sensei, Yamada sensei, etc have not been promoted first.
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:27 PM   #131
Chris Li
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Jason Rudolph wrote: View Post
I completely agree with you and yes, other factors certainly weigh in heavily. I don't pretend to know the working of Aikido politics at those altitudes. However, he must have some reasonable trust in those who recommend that someone (in this case Seagal sensei) be promoted-Isoyama sensei, Abe sensei, etc. I do find it curious when someone earlier said that Seagal sensei has been promoted to 8th dan (if true) when others such a Saotome sensei, Yamada sensei, etc have not been promoted first.
?? Both Saotome and Yamada are 8th dan already, IIRC...

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-17-2011, 01:40 PM   #132
Anjisan
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Do symbol Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
?? Both Saotome and Yamada are 8th dan already, IIRC...

Best,

Chris
Like I said, the politics at that level are out of my league. You are correct in that both are 8th Dan already. I was thinking that given that both were direct students(I am not sure if Yamada sensei was a ushi deshi) not to mention Japanese, heads of large organizations that they would be promoted to 9th Dan before Seagal sensei would be promoted to 8th Dan.
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Old 07-17-2011, 05:43 PM   #133
Chris Li
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Jason Rudolph wrote: View Post
Like I said, the politics at that level are out of my league. You are correct in that both are 8th Dan already. I was thinking that given that both were direct students(I am not sure if Yamada sensei was a ushi deshi) not to mention Japanese, heads of large organizations that they would be promoted to 9th Dan before Seagal sensei would be promoted to 8th Dan.
Difficult, given that the "official" policy is that dan ranks max out at 8th dan .

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-18-2011, 05:46 PM   #134
aikidoc
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Yes, he's aikikai.

The years between ranks are irrelevant. I believe he was awarded 7th dan in 1995 if I recall correctly. So, the 15 years would have elapsed but that does not mean anything-it's the minimum and rarely does anyone get it in the minimum time-especially a gaijin. Again, you never know. Abe sensei had a lot of pull.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:47 PM   #135
aikidoc
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

It is usually announced officially so it would have been in the aikikai promotion list. So if anyone has it it should be available.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:48 AM   #136
Richard Stevens
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

What are the requirements for achieving 8th dan? I assume they are more related to one's continuing contributions to Aikido rather than technical progress. If that is the case it doesn't seem like Seagal is actively contributing to the spread of Aikido. Does he even operate a school any longer or give seminars?
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:16 AM   #137
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Richard Stevens wrote: View Post
What are the requirements for achieving 8th dan? I assume they are more related to one's continuing contributions to Aikido rather than technical progress. If that is the case it doesn't seem like Seagal is actively contributing to the spread of Aikido. Does he even operate a school any longer or give seminars?
The first requirement for being 8th dan is being born Japanese.

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Old 07-24-2011, 11:02 AM   #138
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Matthew Story wrote: View Post
The first requirement for being 8th dan is being born Japanese.
Within the Aikikai, to be sure. I think Amos Parker is 9th Dan in Yoshinkan Aikido.
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:32 AM   #139
graham christian
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

1) Respect others Dan Grades.2) Don't be jealous.

Remember:

http://youtu.be/zalndXdxriI

Regards.G.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:46 PM   #140
Diana Frese
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Sorry, Graham, my computer still isn't bringing up You tube. But it seems like a good thing to follow your advice.

About Yamada Sensei as an uchideshi, according to the history, Arikawa Sensei threw Yamada Sensei's clothes out the window because it was his space. But he became a good senpai to both Yamada Sensei and Kanai Sensei, who later invited him to seminars and summer camps.

Yamada Sensei's biography is available on the website his European students made for him, and I think there is a link to it thru the NYAikikai website.

In the 1980's people asked about the Aikido in the movies. I answered it looked like really good Aikido technique to me. The broken arms and stuff were because, in the movie, the villians had killed the hero's family members. It was classical Aikido in a law enforcement setting, with whatever added that was necessary...
Anyway, we liked watching the movies, and it did get more of the general public interested in finding out about Aikido...

Just some memories from the eighties....

from someone pushing seventy, as one of my former students just reminded me I am, on the phone about an hour ago.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:27 PM   #141
graham christian
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Quote:
Diana Frese wrote: View Post
Sorry, Graham, my computer still isn't bringing up You tube. But it seems like a good thing to follow your advice.

About Yamada Sensei as an uchideshi, according to the history, Arikawa Sensei threw Yamada Sensei's clothes out the window because it was his space. But he became a good senpai to both Yamada Sensei and Kanai Sensei, who later invited him to seminars and summer camps.

Yamada Sensei's biography is available on the website his European students made for him, and I think there is a link to it thru the NYAikikai website.

In the 1980's people asked about the Aikido in the movies. I answered it looked like really good Aikido technique to me. The broken arms and stuff were because, in the movie, the villians had killed the hero's family members. It was classical Aikido in a law enforcement setting, with whatever added that was necessary...
Anyway, we liked watching the movies, and it did get more of the general public interested in finding out about Aikido...

Just some memories from the eighties....

from someone pushing seventy, as one of my former students just reminded me I am, on the phone about an hour ago.
Hi Diana.
Yes, to fill you in on the post ie: youtube, it was an old series that used to be on when I was a kid about a man who was 'imprisoned' on an Island. He woke up to find he was in this strange place and on enquiring where he was he was told he was number six. Thus came about his answer as a saying that everyone used which was 'I am not a number, I am a free man!'

To take the significance off of these numbered titles. Again to show you can have a more balanced view, if you try.

On the respect side of things I agree with what you say. I love his movies, knowing they are entertainment. Yet they do give an insight to the public that there is a thing called Aikido. Thus he's done more for public awareness than most.

I bet he's attracted more people to the art than most as well.

In my opinion respect is due.

Why people in the art publicly put him down is beyond me. As usual things can only be weakened from within by negativity, that old saying 'The enemy lies within'

Regards.G.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:56 PM   #142
aikidoc
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

Segal sensei made the news today. Seems that his "Steven Seagal Lawman" had him use a tank to raid an alleged cock fighter's house (he was unarmed) which in the process killed 120 birds and did several thousand dollars damage to the property. The allegedly knocked down a fence which was again propped up so Seagal could be shot in the tank. Too funny. Life is sometimes crazier than the movies.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:50 PM   #143
genin
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Re: Sensei Steven Seagal's ?

I've still yet to determine if that Lawman show is designed to mock all law enforcement or just Steven Seagal specifically. I mean what's next, Jean Claude Van Damme as a firefighter?!?
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